KW on with North

[Allsox]

Carpenter signed an extension already, he won't be hitting free agency for awhile and the Cubs will likely lock up Zambrano some time during the '07 season.

 

Not sure why Zambrano would sign a deal mid-season when he can make 18 mil a yr easily by waiting. Unless of course, the Cubs sign him to 25 million a yr

 

And thanks to the posters in giving the highlights without me listening to the overpaid hack on the Score.

[CWSGuy406]

I'm not sure what your argument is here. Are you saying that because KW was right on Jenks then he must be right on Masset? That doesn't make any sense.

 

No, my unstated point was more along the lines that it isn't quite fair to judge Masset only on his minor league track record because the majority of his innings in the minors were as a starter. I made the Jenks comparison in that both were bad as starters, but still had what could be called great stuff.

 

I'm saying this; if Jenks were acquired before the 2005 season, you really wouldn't think you'd have anything by looking at his minor league stats. I'm just saying it's unfair to judge Masset on his minor league stats because, as I said, anywhere from 65-80% of his innings came as a starter.

[Vance Law]

Except it doesn't have to be that difficult. While still hard, it's easier to find a LF that can just get on base rather than one that has a bunch of speed and is your typical lead-off hitter. IMO, we don't a need a guy in the 1 spot to steal 40 bags. If you can find a OF that can get on base at a .360-.370 clip, and has moderate speed( 5-10 bags) you have yourself a great leadoff hitter for the Sox.

 

The difference between Pods bad year of .330 OBP (he had a .353 OBP in '05) and a .360 OBP over 600 plate appearances is 18 times on base for the season. Even if you assume that this replacement with mediocre wheels scores at the same rate as Pods (, you'd be talking about a difference of about 6 runs for the season. The Sox could make that up simply by intentionally giving Buehrle food poisoning on the day of one of his starts.

[DBAHO]

No, my unstated point was more along the lines that it isn't quite fair to judge Masset only on his minor league track record because the majority of his innings in the minors were as a starter. I made the Jenks comparison in that both were bad as starters, but still had what could be called great stuff.

 

I'm saying this; if Jenks were acquired before the 2005 season, you really wouldn't think you'd have anything by looking at his minor league stats. I'm just saying it's unfair to judge Masset on his minor league stats because, as I said, anywhere from 65-80% of his innings came as a starter.

And there's the matter of Masset's winter league performance down in Mexico which really increased his value. Did very well as a closer down there.

 

And say what you will about Jenks's potential, but he was a mess when the Angels released him off their 40 man roster. We had to rebuild his confidence, get him tomajorly improve his control etc.

 

Can't see why we can't do that with Masset and turn into a good power reliever. And if he gains confidence from that, who knows the Sox could turn him into a starter then (unlikely though).

[SoxHawk1980]

And there's the matter of Masset's winter league performance down in Mexico which really increased his value. Did very well as a closer down there.

So Masset's minor league performance isn't meaningful but one winter league stint is meaningful? I'm glad he did well in Mexico this winter, but all kinds of players do well in winter leagues and it is hard to attach much meaning to that. And I doubt that a winter league performance ever much affected any player's value.

And say what you will about Jenks's potential, but he was a mess when the Angels released him off their 40 man roster. We had to rebuild his confidence, get him tomajorly improve his control etc.

 

Can't see why we can't do that with Masset and turn into a good power reliever. And if he gains confidence from that, who knows the Sox could turn him into a starter then (unlikely though).

The fact that we did well with the Jenks reclamation project doesn't necessarily mean that any and every pitcher with good stuff that we acquire can be turned into a good reliever. Jenks and Massets situations are very, very different.

[RockRaines]

The fact that we did well with the Jenks reclamation project doesn't necessarily mean that any and every pitcher with good stuff that we acquire can be turned into a good reliever. Jenks and Massets situations are very, very different.

Cough Thorton Cough

[SoxHawk1980]

Cough Thorton Cough

So the past successes tell you that whoever they acquire now will be turned into something good. What do the failures tell you? What does Boone Logan tell you? It tells me that you can't always count on every KW bullpen acquisition to be good. I'm not exactly going out on a limb here.

[YASNY]

So the past successes tell you that whoever they acquire now will be turned into something good. What do the failures tell you? What does Boone Logan tell you? It tells me that you can't always count on every KW bullpen acquisition to be good. I'm not exactly going out on a limb here.

 

The past successes tell me that they have a history of being able to do this kind of thing and are confident of their ability to continue doing so.

[Dick Allen]

Every season, the White Sox have a guy in the bullpen who totally dissappoints. 2003 and 2004 it was Billy Koch. 2005 it was Shingo. Last year it was Politte and Cotts. Chances are someone in the bullpen is going to be awfully bad in 2007. Thornton may revert back to his Seattle form. Jenks' hip may still be bothering him. 2005 the Sox had Hermanson, and then Jenks to step in when trouble appeared. Hopefully a guy like Sisco or MacDougal or Aardsma, if they don't falter themselves can pick it up if someone fails. Masset may be alright, but I still don't understand how KW uses rest as the cure-all to the White Sox 2006 pitching woes, when guys like Garland and Garcia and even Vazquez got better as the year went on, and then raves about Masset while he piles up appearances this winter. I hope the White Sox pick up another reliever. I do like the approach of actually acquiring guys who at least some teams consider 40 man roster-worthy as opposed to last offseason's approach.

[Princess Dye]

I think that those who spin every move KW makes into something positive for the Sox for the present, future and all times will take whatever happens in 2007 and torture their "logic" into arguing that everything KW did was just right.

 

understood that some people do this "spin"... but it is very possible to like this deal and not be a Kenny apologist.

 

some people just dont think McCarthy was all that great, some people are not convinced he was going to be anything more than a 4.00 ERA starter.

 

 

no one here has closely followed the careers of Danks and Masset from game to game, but we can still like this trade and appreciate having some life breathed back into the farm system.

Edited January 4, 2007 by Princess Dye

[Dick Allen]

understood that some people do this "spin"... but it is very possible to like this deal and not be a Kenny apologist.

 

some people just dont think McCarthy was all that great, some people are not convinced he was going to be anything more than a 4.00 ERA starter.

no one here has closely followed the careers of Danks and Masset from game to game, but we can still like this trade and appreciate having some life breathed back into the farm system.

I just find it odd that people buy everything KW says about his trades. Its like everything he says is gospel. What do you expect him to say on the radio? Of course he's going to praise his acquisitions. I liked the Garcia trade, as I said before if Gio or Floyd develop into a good pitcher, it was a great trade. If both do, it was a steal. I can't understand the McCarthy trade. KW using Floyd's "movement" as something you need at USCF, and saying McCarthy throws straight. Well, Floyd's "movement" hasn't allowed him to throw many strikes yet in his career, and when he has, they seem to get hit pretty hard. Danks may be good, but really is he as ready to help the White Sox in 2007 or 2008 as McCarthy would be? The bottom line is if these pitchers are really as good as KW says they are, then he is a genius and the Sox will be set for a long while, barring injury. But, he basically is calling Gio and Danks the best LH pitching prospects in baseball and Floyd a stud, with Masset and Sisco future All Stars as well. That is probably a pipe dream.

[YASNY]

2007 NL Cy Young award winner: Freddie Garcia

2007 AL Cy Young award winner: Brandon McCarthy

 

Book it.

[DBAHO]

So Masset's minor league performance isn't meaningful but one winter league stint is meaningful? I'm glad he did well in Mexico this winter, but all kinds of players do well in winter leagues and it is hard to attach much meaning to that. And I doubt that a winter league performance ever much affected any player's value.

 

The fact that we did well with the Jenks reclamation project doesn't necessarily mean that any and every pitcher with good stuff that we acquire can be turned into a good reliever. Jenks and Massets situations are very, very different.

Considering the role that we have in mind for Masset as a reliever, I take into consideration a lot more of Masset's performance in the Winter League considering;

 

a) He was used as a closer

B) Most recent performance

 

Plus the guy didn't exactly do that badly when he was used as a reliever by the Rangers later on in the 2006 season.

 

If Masset isn't used as a reliever at all during the past 6 months, and he's been used as a starter still, is he going to have the same value? No I don't think so.

 

I think the Sox's track record for the relievers that they've acquired over the past 2-3 seasons, is extremely good, probably one of the top teams in the league if you compare it to others.

 

Jenks was a super pickup, Matt Thornton had a good 1st season for the price of Joe Borchard who's no longer with the Seattle organization (just another wonderful trade in a list of many by Bill Bavasi (world's greatest GM)), and KW has obviously seen that, and targeted similar sort of power relievers in Aardsma and Masset this off-season, who they think with some help on their control and secondary pitches with Coop, that they can do better than they have previously.

[Heads22]

OR, we could trade for a CF and move BA to LF. Depending on how good this new CF is defensively. Then you have a new lead-off/CF and we don't get rid of BA.

 

You're not going to find a better defensive CF available.

[DBAHO]

The bottom line is if these pitchers are really as good as KW says they are, then he is a genius and the Sox will be set for a long while, barring injury. But, he basically is calling Gio and Danks the best LH pitching prospects in baseball and Floyd a stud, with Masset and Sisco future All Stars as well. That is probably a pipe dream.

Don't worry Dick, I don't buy this either.

 

Don't get me wrong, Danks and Gio would be top 10 LHP prospects in the minors without a doubt, maybe top 5, but the best, well I think the likes of Scott Elbert etc. would have something to say about that.

 

The thing with those guys you've mentioned last though, their value at the moment is basically the lowest it's been for a while, with the Floyd's and the Sisco's. It's up to the Sox's coaching staff to fix that, and get them back to where they were on a talent and potential level a couple of seasons ago, and to actually produce that at the major league level.

[greg775]

Detroit's pitchers better be tired this season after all the crap spewed about

how tired our pitchers were last season.

Geez. You'd think an extra month was 6 months.

Good to hear KW's comments otherwise though.

He has a plan and I can't fault him too much for that.

I don't want 100 loss seasons and he sensed they were coming.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Detroit's pitchers better be tired this season after all the crap spewed about

how tired our pitchers were last season.

Geez. You'd think an extra month was 6 months.

Good to hear KW's comments otherwise though.

He has a plan and I can't fault him too much for that.

I don't want 100 loss seasons and he sensed they were coming.

 

I agree, greg. It's gonna be very interesting to see if our guys were really tired or if they just got lit up. I like what we've done to this point, though.

[CanOfCorn]

Quite the contrary. I don't believe that people will agree with me in the end. I think that those who spin every move KW makes into something positive for the Sox for the present, future and all times will take whatever happens in 2007 and torture their "logic" into arguing that everything KW did was just right.

 

Personally, I refuse to be down on my favorite team year after year. That's what Cubs fans do and rightfully so. Kenny, as a GM started out slowly, but I think he has become one of the best GMs in the league. Of course, that doesn't mean he's gonna have a few stinker trades that don't work out, but even Beane, Epstein, Cashman and Schuerholtz have.

 

That being said, I'm a little skeptical, but whoever is in the 5-hole in the rotation has Coop and 4 solid, if not unspectacular veteran pitchers who are game- and playoff- tested. I don't expect Floyd, Danks, Masset, Gio, Vasquez, Aardsma AND Sisco to ALL work out, but if we got 3 or 4 to be solid major leaguers, I would call it a wash. And don't forget, there are two sides to every trade, sometimes it's not who you get, but who you trade. Cotts gave us one great year, one not so great year...what if we won the Series this year with Aardsma in the pen and then were competitive with both Aardsma and Vasquez in the pen and Cotts never got back to 2005 form and was out of the league in 2 years? Who wins?

 

We all have gut reactions when a player we like or think has potential gets traded...and as shown on this board, people freak the heck out. But trades are like presidents...you can't judge them until some time has passed...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...except for Dubya.

[RockRaines]

So the past successes tell you that whoever they acquire now will be turned into something good. What do the failures tell you? What does Boone Logan tell you? It tells me that you can't always count on every KW bullpen acquisition to be good. I'm not exactly going out on a limb here.

Wow, i didnt know that we aquired Boone Logan from another team and tried to fix his mechanics which turned out to be a failure.

 

Wait, he was a guy in A ball who changed his mechanics in OUR system, and turned out to get a shot at the major league team out of nowhere. I guess he is a failure.

[beautox]

Personally, I refuse to be down on my favorite team year after year. That's what Cubs fans do and rightfully so. Kenny, as a GM started out slowly, but I think he has become one of the best GMs in the league. Of course, that doesn't mean he's gonna have a few stinker trades that don't work out, but even Beane, Epstein, Cashman and Schuerholtz have.

 

 

Epstein is "teh sux" and outside of picking up David Ortiz and being in the room when Sanchez and Hanley were given away, what has he done?

[RockRaines]

Epstein is "teh sux" and outside of picking up David Ortiz and being in the room when Sanchez and Hanley were given away, what has he done?

Ugh, I feel that you have opened up the door for a horrible, yet frequent, argument.

[iamshack]

So the past successes tell you that whoever they acquire now will be turned into something good. What do the failures tell you? What does Boone Logan tell you? It tells me that you can't always count on every KW bullpen acquisition to be good. I'm not exactly going out on a limb here.

 

No, past successes tell us that the organization is establishing a pattern or practice of being able to identify pitchers with mechanical problems and rectify them. Keep in mind that this is a narrow scope of players with certain characteristics, i.e., power arms, poor control. There is absolutely something to be said for the ability to identify players like this. It is different from blind faith. They are not just picking up ANY guys who have not fulfilled their potential, but rather, guys who fit a certain profile, and who have mechanical issues identified on film.

[beautox]

Ugh, I feel that you have opened up the door for a horrible, yet frequent, argument.

 

whatevs, Cla Meredith says "hi"

 

*i felt the lizard was fitting for some reason.

[Gregory Pratt]

North is obnoxious sounding. I've never listened to him before, but man, listening to this interview for the first time -- ouch.

[Jordan4life_2007]

North is obnoxious sounding. I've never listened to him before, but man, listening to this interview for the first time -- ouch.

 

Where can you get the full interview? Or are they just replaying it on the Score?