Just 4 1/2 games out?

[southsider2k5]

I really think you have the Sox offense all backwards.  I thin we should worry much more about what Olivo, Crede, CF of the week are doing vs the vet guys are doing.  The last 4 guys you mentioned are veterans and have a history of hitting, what does the bottom of our line up have?  I think if the bottom guys are coming around the middle guys are soon to follow. 

 

And BTW are we to start giving Greg Walker some credit for getting some of these guys going yet?  Crede, Olivo, Rowand, Harris, Daubach are all hitting better than they have been all year.

 

You truly think rookies Harris & Olivo and a semi-rookie Crede will carry this team?

 

Valentin can't see the breaking ball; Magglio and Lee are wildly overswinging on every other pitch; Jimenez is completely apathetic; and Konerko is in one of the worst slumps of all time...Sox are the second worst hitting team in AL...And if Hurt reverts back to his uppercut swing/mental case self, Sox are beyond f***ed.

 

 

Wo...I thought just the other day we gave the Red Sox a game as a gift....Now we are back in contention?

Wow dude you are putting some words into my mouth. Where did I say "carry the team" and where did I say "back in contention" ?

 

I SAID that those 3 guys are much more worth worrying about than the vets. I am not sure where you got the rest of that crap?

I don't know about you, but when I talk about "mashing the ball", the implication is always "....in order for us to be in contention".... If you were talking about a slight improvement, then, sure, I guess if Cerde and Harris give Konerko 1st&3rd&1-out often enough, I bet he will repond occasionally and Sox would score a 4 runs a game instead 3 and will finish 5 games behind instead of 10+.

 

Bottomline: Sox are not going anywhere if the big 3 pitchers (Elo-Colon-Burly) and big 5 hitters (Jim, Val, Hurt, Lee, Kong and Maggs) don't crank the RBI production up two notches. And I am yet to see anything worthy of getting excited about from the big guns, Frank excepted- and even he only has half the RBIs of Delgado..

 

Harris/Rowand/Olivo/Crede are just icing on the cake not the other way around.

Think back to 2000. When the offense was most dangerous it was the guys like Herbert Perry at the bottom of the order who were turning things over to get back to the sluggers. Up until this point of the season the bottom 3-4 guys in the order have been a black hole. If we aren't getting anything out of these guys we are wasting 3 innings a night hitting. If these guys are getting on and creating opportunities for the main guys this offense becomes scary. The main part of the line up is eventually going to do their thing. I really believe that. There is no such comfort from the bottom guys. Your offense is only as strong as your weakest links. It is just like a bad bullpen. It doesn't matter how good your starters are if the pen is blowing games. With the offense it doesn't matter how good the middle of your line up is, if they aren't getting a chance to hit, let alone with people on base.

[BrandoFan]

I really think you have the Sox offense all backwards.  I thin we should worry much more about what Olivo, Crede, CF of the week are doing vs the vet guys are doing.  The last 4 guys you mentioned are veterans and have a history of hitting, what does the bottom of our line up have?  I think if the bottom guys are coming around the middle guys are soon to follow. 

 

And BTW are we to start giving Greg Walker some credit for getting some of these guys going yet?  Crede, Olivo, Rowand, Harris, Daubach are all hitting better than they have been all year.

 

You truly think rookies Harris & Olivo and a semi-rookie Crede will carry this team?

 

Valentin can't see the breaking ball; Magglio and Lee are wildly overswinging on every other pitch; Jimenez is completely apathetic; and Konerko is in one of the worst slumps of all time...Sox are the second worst hitting team in AL...And if Hurt reverts back to his uppercut swing/mental case self, Sox are beyond f***ed.

 

 

Wo...I thought just the other day we gave the Red Sox a game as a gift....Now we are back in contention?

Wow dude you are putting some words into my mouth. Where did I say "carry the team" and where did I say "back in contention" ?

 

I SAID that those 3 guys are much more worth worrying about than the vets. I am not sure where you got the rest of that crap?

I don't know about you, but when I talk about "mashing the ball", the implication is always "....in order for us to be in contention".... If you were talking about a slight improvement, then, sure, I guess if Cerde and Harris give Konerko 1st&3rd&1-out often enough, I bet he will repond occasionally and Sox would score a 4 runs a game instead 3 and will finish 5 games behind instead of 10+.

 

Bottomline: Sox are not going anywhere if the big 3 pitchers (Elo-Colon-Burly) and big 5 hitters (Jim, Val, Hurt, Lee, Kong and Maggs) don't crank the RBI production up two notches. And I am yet to see anything worthy of getting excited about from the big guns, Frank excepted- and even he only has half the RBIs of Delgado..

 

Harris/Rowand/Olivo/Crede are just icing on the cake not the other way around.

Think back to 2000. When the offense was most dangerous it was the guys like Herbert Perry at the bottom of the order who were turning things over to get back to the sluggers. Up until this point of the season the bottom 3-4 guys in the order have been a black hole. If we aren't getting anything out of these guys we are wasting 3 innings a night hitting. If these guys are getting on and creating opportunities for the main guys this offense becomes scary. The main part of the line up is eventually going to do their thing. I really believe that. There is no such comfort from the bottom guys. Your offense is only as strong as your weakest links. It is just like a bad bullpen. It doesn't matter how good your starters are if the pen is blowing games. With the offense it doesn't matter how good the middle of your line up is, if they aren't getting a chance to hit, let alone with people on base.

1. Can't say I disagree with the premise of black hole in the bottom of the order killing the team's chances, mind you...BUT Konerko, Valentin, Lee and Jimenez have so many problems of their own, that Crede, Harris and Olivo would have to perform at no less than All-Star level in order to begin compensating for it....not gonna happen!

 

 

2. In 2000, Durham and Valentin were not only slugging, but they were getting on base and, more importantly, were high-% baserunners who found ways to reach 2nd base with zero outs and 3rd with 1 out anyway they could...which in turn took pressure off of Hurt and Maggs and put it on opposing pitcher and defense along with making ours sluggers more confortable without fear of having to stay out of GIDP and as a result overswinging less...Then you add the fact that Hurt, Magglio, Lee and especially Kong were simply better , more clutch hitters....and the whole complexion of the game changes dramatically......Perry, Johnson and Singlelton didn't even have to do anything for that team and the latter two sucked without it hurting the club much (it helped that they also played good D. and were not basecloggers like Crede)

 

You simply can't compare the production we've been getting from 1-6 hitters in first half of 2000 versus 1-6 first half of this year...And clutch GIDPs (we lead the league, buddy)make the comparison even worse than RBI/OPS numbers would suggest.

 

When the Sox hitters start doing what they did in the last game in LA-- recognizing the ball early, putting short, mechanically sound swings on pitcher's pitches and absolutely crushing mistakes.....I will be the first person to start yelling in excitement. Until then, pardon me for going the "cup half-empty" route.....And I am the biggest Cub-hater you will ever find