Crede Avoids Arbitration

[SnB]

I don't understand that reasoning. Crede finished the 2005 regular season strong, and carried that play into the postseason to be one of our best players in October. And Crede did not revert back to his old form statistically during the 2006 season. He was a very solid bat, while remaining one of our best gloves on the team.

 

I don't get the reasoning for the Sox to have waited all this time for Crede to become serviceable after some horrid years, and spin him off as soon as he becomes legit just so we can restart the cycle with another unproven player at 3B.

i honestly think it's the back problems that really worries the sox. There has to be more to that than we know. I just don't think they have faith that he'll be able to stay consistently healthy.

 

But as I say that, I am suprised how ready the sox seem to be to start fields, considering how long it took for the crede experiment to actually work.

[Colorado Sox Fan]

His stats in September 2006 scare me. Maybe it was just a slump. Maybe. We needed him.

[Hideaway Lights]

Boras will ask for way too much, and Crede will not be worth it. It's really that simple.

[Kalapse]

His stats in September 2006 scare me. Maybe it was just a slump. Maybe. We needed him.

It's odd his .546 September OPS doesn't come up more often, it certainly seemed like his back was killing him and he couldn't wait to get to the offseason to take care of it.

[NorthSideSox72]

i honestly think it's the back problems that really worries the sox. There has to be more to that than we know. I just don't think they have faith that he'll be able to stay consistently healthy.

 

But as I say that, I am suprised how ready the sox seem to be to start fields, considering how long it took for the crede experiment to actually work.

I don't think its that there is more to it than we know. Like all back issues, its that no one knows anything for sure. Situations like this, he could be healthy the rest of his career, he could just have the occasional flare-ups like he has in recent years, or he could get worse quickly and have his career end because of it. No telling for sure.

 

And surgery is not exactly a known result either. Back surgeries are notoriously unpredictable, and they are higher risk than doing things with, say, your knee or elbow.

[Texsox]

If Joe Crede were a Red Sox

 

Rednwhite "How can you say that the Red Sox aren't the best, they just signed one of the best 3rd basemen in the league. Look at his numbers and how they matched up to Arod and Chavez. My god isnt Theo a genius."

 

Joe Crede the White Sox player.

 

Rednwhite "You are getting hosed, paying a player double from his salary last year. Mike Lowell is healthy at least."

 

[elrockinMT]

That's pretty damn cheap.

 

Hopefully we can work on a long-term contract with him, but I don't see that happening at all.

 

 

He and his agent must of agreed to it also right? Maybe it's a signal he is willing to talk with the team about a long term deal, whatever long term measn these days. I hope KW and Booooras do just that.

[Kalapse]

He and his agent must of agreed to it also right? Maybe it's a signal he is willing to talk with the team about a long term deal, whatever long term measn these days. I hope KW and Booooras do just that.

They agreed to it because they wouldn't have gotten much more in arbitration, it was an incredibly realistic deal considering how much he could have made in front of an arbitrator. There is no underlying meaning to this, it was just a one year deal to avoid arbitration like they did last year.

[RockRaines]

I second that. One person in the world says we are overpaying on this one year deal. Wonder why?

[Texsox]

Not every Boras deal is a dragged out slug fest. Crede is not one of Boras' premier clients, and I am certain these are the kind of deals that are his bread and butter. Grab his percentage quickly off a Crede contract and save your time, and your staff's time, for bigger fish.

 

I second that. One person in the world says we are overpaying on this one year deal. Wonder why?

\

 

But that's the truth, we are just blinded by team loyalty

[Kalapse]

Not every Boras deal is a dragged out slug fest. Crede is not one of Boras' premier clients, and I am certain these are the kind of deals that are his bread and butter. Grab his percentage quickly off a Crede contract and save your time, and your staff's time, for bigger fish.

Exactly, anyone who thinks otherwise is just exaggerating the effect Boras has on negotiations.

[greasywheels121]

I don't think it's out of the question to think the Sox might not even want to give Joe a long term deal, even if the agent was someone else.

 

-The way I have understood things, the Sox would feel better if Joe went under the knife to get the back fixed. Boras has made it clear Crede would only do that if a long term deal was worked out.

 

-As Kal mentioned a few posts ago, Crede was awful in September, and it seemed to alot of us that Joe was hurting.

 

-For whatever reason, the Sox seem high on Fields. Maybe not at 3rd, but they seem high on Fields as a hitter.

So I guess my question is. To dumb it down, why would the Sox give a guy a bunch of money just to have surgery? That doesn't seem like a smart investment. They have a guy waiting in the wings that they are high on, and the future of Crede and his back are a huge question mark.

 

I just don't see the Sox that eager to get a deal done.

 

I recall seeing the rehab Crede's going through is just as effective as the surgery. The surgery requires going under the knife and going through rehab. If the result is the same from both, wouldn't you do the same as Crede's doing? If that's the Sox' case in this deal, that's pretty lame.

[striker]

I think the Sox next big move will be in Spring Training. Here are some questions that will be answered:

 

1. Will Uribe's fiasco get in the way?

2. Is Crede's back healthy?

3. How does Fields perform?

4. How do the newly acquired arms perform?

5. How does Pods perform?

6. How does Anderson perform?

 

These questions will answer our needs at the time and Kenny will make a deal to fill the whole.

 

I think:

1. Uribe's mess will get cleared up.

2. Crede is healthy

3. Fields will do go, making Crede expendable

4. Arms will look good

5. Pods will perform well.

6. Anderson will not perform well

 

The Sox will then trade Crede (perhaps to Angels for Santana and prospects) and trade a Prospect and Santana to Tampa for Carl Crawford.

 

LF Scott Podsednik

CF Carl Crawford

RF Jermaine Dye

DH Jim Thome

1B Paul Kornerko

CA AJ Pierzynski

2B Tadahito Iguchi

SS Juan Uribe

3B Josh Fields

 

SP Contreras

SP Buehrle

SP Garland

SP Vazquez

SP Haegar

 

RP Jenks

RP Thornton

RP McDougal

RP Floyd

RP Sisco

RP Aardsma

[Kalapse]

I recall seeing the rehab Crede's going through is just as effective as the surgery. The surgery requires going under the knife and going through rehab. If the result is the same from both, wouldn't you do the same as Crede's doing? If that's the Sox' case in this deal, that's pretty lame.

As KW has mentioned in interviews, the Sox do not believe this. They think surgery will leave him in better condition for the future than just rehabing. It really seemed like if Crede had just gone under the knife the Sox would have been willing to sign him long term.

[greasywheels121]

As KW has mentioned in interviews, the Sox do not believe this. They think surgery will leave him in better condition for the future than just rehabing. It really seemed like if Crede had just gone under the knife the Sox would have been willing to sign him long term.

 

Well if that's the case and the Sox don't plan on bending from that opinion, we might as well never mention the words contract and Crede ever again because he's long gone. Pretty sad.

[NorthSideSox72]

As KW has mentioned in interviews, the Sox do not believe this. They think surgery will leave him in better condition for the future than just rehabing. It really seemed like if Crede had just gone under the knife the Sox would have been willing to sign him long term.

That is oversimplifying quite a bit. No back surgery is ever a guarantee, any more than therapy is or isn't. Yes, the Sox expressed their desire for the surgery, but that is not the same thin as saying if he had done it, that they would have automatically signed him long term. Crede's back is not the only issue, or even necessarily the main issue, of his future with the team.

[Kalapse]

Well if that's the case and the Sox don't plan on bending from that opinion, we might as well never mention the words contract and Crede ever again because he's long gone. Pretty sad.

Well I came to this realization a few months back when KW was on the Score speaking candidly about Crede, his back and Boras it was pretty apparent then that if Crede didn't follow the Sox' advice and have the surgery that not only would they not sign him long term but he'd also be traded before the '08 season assuming he's healthy enough to trade at the time.

 

If the Sox can deal Joseph for a couple pieces including a major leaguer or 2 they will do it and I will welcome such a trade with open arms no matter how much I love watching Joe at the hot corner.

 

That is oversimplifying quite a bit. No back surgery is ever a guarantee, any more than therapy is or isn't. Yes, the Sox expressed their desire for the surgery, but that is not the same thin as saying if he had done it, that they would have automatically signed him long term. Crede's back is not the only issue, or even necessarily the main issue, of his future with the team.

Fine I'll reword it to better reflect what I was trying to say.

 

The Sox would have been more willing to negotiate a long term deal.

[greasywheels121]

If the Sox can deal Joseph for a couple pieces including a major leaguer or 2 they will do it and I will welcome such a trade with open arms no matter how much I love watching Joe at the hot corner.

 

And if that deal doesn't arise, do the Sox just play this game again next year with the plans of trading him or letting him go while getting nothing in return?

 

Hopefully your dream scenario plays out, because I personally don't see the Sox coming out in winners in this.

[redandwhite]

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jan 16, 2007 -> 02:37 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I second that. One person in the world says we are overpaying on this one year deal. Wonder why?

I never said the White Sox were overpaying. Please, Rock, don't get started.

 

What I did say is that his price nearly doubled which doesn't happen often in the arbitration process.

[Balta1701]

That is oversimplifying quite a bit. No back surgery is ever a guarantee, any more than therapy is or isn't. Yes, the Sox expressed their desire for the surgery, but that is not the same thin as saying if he had done it, that they would have automatically signed him long term. Crede's back is not the only issue, or even necessarily the main issue, of his future with the team.

2 things I think are worth noting when it comes to Joe's back:

 

1. Joe Crede originally hurt his back 2 years ago. He tried rehabbing alone last year. It held up for most of the year, but still it wasn't enough to make it a whole season. If the White Sox had made the playoffs, the White Sox would literally have been better off with Ozuna or Cintron starting at third given Joe's back. In other words, Joe's tried Rehab alone before, and I don't think it worked.

 

2. Can someone other than me raise their hand if they recall how things worked out for the White Sox and a player the last time Scott Boras and the White Sox had a disagreement over how a player treated a really nasty injury?

[Kalapse]

And if that deal doesn't arise, do the Sox just play this game again next year with the plans of trading him or letting him go while getting nothing in return?

 

Hopefully your dream scenario plays out, because I personally don't see the Sox coming out in winners in this.

I suppose it would be a Buehrle type scenario, they deal him if the right deal comes along but if they can't agree to a trade they're comfortable with Joe will end up walking after the '08 season. Lets just hope it doesn't come to that.

[ptatc]

That is oversimplifying quite a bit. No back surgery is ever a guarantee, any more than therapy is or isn't. Yes, the Sox expressed their desire for the surgery, but that is not the same thin as saying if he had done it, that they would have automatically signed him long term. Crede's back is not the only issue, or even necessarily the main issue, of his future with the team.

 

This is true. However therapy can be more effective if you do not have a significant disc bulge changing the mechanics of the spine or compressing the nerve to cause pain. The whole issue revolves around the significance of the disc herniation. If you can reduce and control it through therapy surgery is not needed. The motion which puts the most stress on the disc is rotation. Rotation is the motion Crede must do in order to follow through on his swing.

 

It can be done but it is very difficult to control a disc herniation in a person whose job requires them to rotate thier trunk. I know and trust the medical staff for the organization and if they do not feel it can be controlled without surgery, I would be inclined to agree. The time missed each of the past two seasons also makes me inclined to believe this.

Edited January 16, 2007 by ptatc

[elrockinMT]

I am surprised at some of the negative comments. Joe Crede is an all-star and gold glove caliber thirdbaseman and was developed in the Sox system. Bad back or not Joe is one of the top thirdbasemen in baseball and continues to improve every year. He didn't sign cheap in this deal and my guess is this is setting the table for more talks on a long term deal. I hope we keep Joe and use Josh Fields in LF and/or the backup 3Bman. Let's value our own players more and appreciate them more is what I would like to see.

[CanOfCorn]

I am surprised at some of the negative comments. Joe Crede is an all-star and gold glove caliber thirdbaseman and was developed in the Sox system. Bad back or not Joe is one of the top thirdbasemen in baseball and continues to improve every year. He didn't sign cheap in this deal and my guess is this is setting the table for more talks on a long term deal. I hope we keep Joe and use Josh Fields in LF and/or the backup 3Bman. Let's value our own players more and appreciate them more is what I would like to see.

 

Fields, if brought up, is also a White Sox prospect. Joe has health issues and the Sox need to worry about it. The Sox are in the catbird seat here. They can see how Joe reacts to therapy and try to resign to a long term deal or they can let him go or trade him and bring up a highly rated prospect. I'm not worried at all. Either way, we are going to cme out on top.

 

/stops drinking black kool-aid

Edited January 16, 2007 by CanOfCorn

[Kalapse]

I am surprised at some of the negative comments. Joe Crede is an all-star and gold glove caliber thirdbaseman and was developed in the Sox system. Bad back or not Joe is one of the top thirdbasemen in baseball and continues to improve every year. He didn't sign cheap in this deal and my guess is this is setting the table for more talks on a long term deal. I hope we keep Joe and use Josh Fields in LF and/or the backup 3Bman. Let's value our own players more and appreciate them more is what I would like to see.

1.) He's not an all-star

 

2.) He is not elite, he ranks somewhere between 10-15 amongst 3B in baseball. He'd be like the 5th best 3B in the NL East if he played for the Phillies that kind of says something about where he ranks in baseball.

 

3.) This deal has nothing to do with any sort of long term extension, otherwise last year's one year deal would have lead to something more long term. Crede just signed for about what he would have gotten in arbitration it was basically a slam dunk deal. Hell I'd go out on a limb and say that Boras may not have even been present during negotiations instead letting one of his associates hammer out such a deal. In other words he didn't sign cheap and he didn't sign expensively he signed where he was supposed to sign this is how arbitration years work.