The Cubs get a taste of Zambrao's upcoming salary demands

[Kyyle23]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2733245

 

Cubs are offering 11 million, Zambrano is asking for 15 million. If the Cubs are going to be spending money like fools, Zambrano wants to get a piece of the action, not that I blame him. How can the Cubs offer him the same money they are paying Lilly? Those two arent even on the same planet in terms of talent.

[Harry Chappas]

The cub mindset is simply insane. The guy is a horse and big game pitcher.

[RockRaines]

The cub mindset is simply insane. The guy is a horse and big game pitcher.

Apparently he is just as good as Ted Lilly though. Good job Hendry.

 

If they want him, they will have to pay him 7 years for at least 15-17 mil a year

[Jenksismyhero]

I'd imagine they're just testing the waters.

 

Personally I like what KW is doing: realizing that at some point, no matter how good they are/can be, pitchers aren't worth that kind of money for that long.

 

The ONLY pitcher I'd pay that much for would be Santana, who's been Cy Young caliber for 4 years running.

 

Zambrano pitches in the NL against some of the worst competition in all of baseball. And he's a head-case to boot. No question he can pitch, but money can be spent more wisely elsewhere (of course there in lies the problem for the Cubs...they're not wise).

[Balta1701]

Cubs are offering 11 million, Zambrano is asking for 15 million. If the Cubs are going to be spending money like fools, Zambrano wants to get a piece of the action, not that I blame him. How can the Cubs offer him the same money they are paying Lilly? Those two arent even on the same planet in terms of talent.

The amount that the Cubs are paying Lilly is only of cursory importance here, that's how the arbitration system istelf works.

 

Zambrano made $6.5 million last year. The Cubs are offering a raise of $4.5 million on top of that for 1 season. Zambrano is asking for a raise of $9 million on top of that. I would understand an arbitrator ruling either way in this case, although I really don't know why the 2 sides weren't able to agree on something like $13 million this season.

[hammerhead johnson]

Zambrano pitches in the NL against some of the worst competition in all of baseball. And he's a head-case to boot. No question he can pitch, but money can be spent more wisely elsewhere (of course there in lies the problem for the Cubs...they're not wise).

 

I doubt it.

 

Zambrano is a monster. 15 million per is actually a hell of a lot less than I was expecting. The Cubs would call that a bargain, the best they ever haaaaad.

[Whitewashed in '05]

Apparently he is just as good as Ted Lilly though. Good job Hendry.

 

If they want him, they will have to pay him 7 years for at least 15-17 mil a year

Didn't think what consequences he'd get when he gave out asinine contracts this offseason. Good for him.

[witesoxfan]

Didn't think what consequences he'd get when he gave out asinine contracts this offseason. Good for him.

 

Consequences? New ownership will fire him anyways, there are no consequences.

 

That's why the Tribune doesn't care that he is spending all that money.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 17, 2007 -> 10:11 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Zambrano pitches in the NL against some of the worst competition in all of baseball. And he's a head-case to boot. No question he can pitch, but money can be spent more wisely elsewhere (of course there in lies the problem for the Cubs...they're not wise).

Carlos Zambrano sucks against the AL too. He can't hide behind the weak hitting catcher and pitcher.

 

For a supposed ace and Cy Young contender, his K/BB was 24th out 38 NL starters, and his WHIP was 16th.

 

It's a shame Oswalt will be getting much less than this fatass headcase. Oswalt is clearly the better pitcher, yet doesn't get half the hype

[Kalapse]

This is just f***ing retarded, I have Comcast Sports Net on right now waiting for the Bulls game to start and Pat Boyle is going through the day's news. He gets to the Zambrano arbitration situation and mentions that Zambrano will be looking for a 6 year $100M contract, he didn't say 'in the neighborhood of' or anything like that he said it definitively.

 

That makes no f***ing sense at all why the f*** would Zambrano settle for $16.67M per over 6 years when Zito just got $18M over 7 years ($126M)?

 

1 year and $26M less than what the inferior and 2 years older Zito got. If I'm Zambrano I'm not settling for anything less than $20M per over 7 years. Either Zambrano's camp isn't looking for a gigantic contract or a few different media outlets have received poor information.

[DBAHO]

Agreed with Kalapse's statement.

 

If Zambrano has another good season, his value is only going to get higher. The Cubs might as well try to do what they can to lock him up now.

 

But they brought it on themselves by giving out insane contracts this off-season. Karma is a wonderful thing.

[MSHAWKS]

Carlos Zambrano sucks against the AL too. He can't hide behind the weak hitting catcher and pitcher.

 

For a supposed ace and Cy Young contender, his K/BB was 24th out 38 NL starters, and his WHIP was 16th.

 

It's a shame Oswalt will be getting much less than this fatass headcase. Oswalt is clearly the better pitcher, yet doesn't get half the hype

 

 

That is a one year exmple of WHIP and k/BB. Over the course of their careers, Zambrano's OPS against is 30 points lower than Oswalt's. And, as for sucking against the AL, those stats are for 9 games in the last three years. Zambrano is one of the five-ten best starters in baseball, certaintly better than Zito.

[Kalapse]

That is a one year exmple of WHIP and k/BB. Over the course of their careers, Zambrano's OPS against is 30 points lower than Oswalt's. And, as for sucking against the AL, those stats are for 9 games in the last three years. Zambrano is one of the five-ten best starters in baseball, certaintly better than Zito.

And he's only 26 years old.

[RockRaines]

And he's only 26 years old.

Hes def top 5 that I would want in my rotation. The guy is an Ace.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(MSHAWKS @ Jan 17, 2007 -> 08:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is a one year exmple of WHIP and k/BB. Over the course of their careers, Zambrano's OPS against is 30 points lower than Oswalt's. And, as for sucking against the AL, those stats are for 9 games in the last three years. Zambrano is one of the five-ten best starters in baseball, certaintly better than Zito.

Career:

Zambrano: 64-42, 977 IP, 3.29 ERA, 1.28 WHIP, 7.97 K/9, 1.94 K/BB

Oswalt: 98-47, 1201.1 IP, 3.05 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 7.61 K/9, 3.86 K/BB

 

Pitchers better than Zambrano:

Clemens

Oswalt

Carpenter

Santana

Webb

Halladay

Pedro (after he comes back)

Smoltz

 

a case can be made for Peavy as well

 

With the ballparks they'll be pitching in, I wouldn't rule out Schmidt and Zito putting up better numbers than Zambrano this upcoming season.

 

Take a look at his career numbers in AL parks

Yankee Stadium: 6.1 IP, 2.37 WHIP, 8.53 ERA

USCF: 19.1 IP in 4 starts, 1.71 WHIP, 6.05 ERA

@Baltimore: 2 IP, 3.00 WHIP, 13.5 ERA

@Cle, 6 IP, 1.50 WHIP, 3 ERA

In 6 starts in AL Parks, he has managed to go 33.2 innings, with a 1.87 WHIP and a 6.42 ERA

 

I know it's a limited sample size (and it doesn't help that he can barely go 5 innings against an AL team,) but it's not just about the numbers, you can just watch the way he pitches. He's not stupid, and I don't blame him for walking or hitting guys to face the pitcher. El Duque used to do the same thing. Fall behind a hitter 2-0, just walk him. Don't want to face the next guy? Give him nothing but garbage.

[Whitewashed in '05]

Consequences? New ownership will fire him anyways, there are no consequences.

 

That's why the Tribune doesn't care that he is spending all that money.

The consequences of going to an arbitrator about Zambrano because they only want to give him a million more than their paying Lilly. While he has his job.

 

Besides I don't care what happens to Hendry.

[MSHAWKS]

Career:

Zambrano: 64-42, 977 IP, 3.29 ERA, 1.28 WHIP, 7.97 K/9, 1.94 K/BB

Oswalt: 98-47, 1201.1 IP, 3.05 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 7.61 K/9, 3.86 K/BB

 

Pitchers better than Zambrano:

Clemens

Oswalt

Carpenter

Santana

Webb

Halladay

Pedro (after he comes back)

Smoltz

 

a case can be made for Peavy as well

 

With the ballparks they'll be pitching in, I wouldn't rule out Schmidt and Zito putting up better numbers than Zambrano this upcoming season.

 

Take a look at his career numbers in AL parks

Yankee Stadium: 6.1 IP, 2.37 WHIP, 8.53 ERA

USCF: 19.1 IP in 4 starts, 1.71 WHIP, 6.05 ERA

@Baltimore: 2 IP, 3.00 WHIP, 13.5 ERA

@Cle, 6 IP, 1.50 WHIP, 3 ERA

In 6 starts in AL Parks, he has managed to go 33.2 innings, with a 1.87 WHIP and a 6.42 ERA

 

I know it's a limited sample size (and it doesn't help that he can barely go 5 innings against an AL team,) but it's not just about the numbers, you can just watch the way he pitches. He's not stupid, and I don't blame him for walking or hitting guys to face the pitcher. El Duque used to do the same thing. Fall behind a hitter 2-0, just walk him. Don't want to face the next guy? Give him nothing but garbage.

 

Oswalt, Clemens, Santana, Carpenter and Martinez(if healthy) are the only starters with numbers clearly better than Zambrano's over the last three years. Smoltz, Halladay, Webb. and Peavy's are all pretty darn comparable to Zambrano's. I said he was one of the 5-10 best starters in baseball and it seems you agree.

[Leonard Zelig]

Regarding the arbitration process: Does either side know what the other's offer is when they make their bid?

[Kalapse]

Regarding the arbitration process: Does either side know what the other's offer is when they make their bid?

Yes, mainly because there are negotiations on going following the end of the season on a one year contract if the 2 sides are unable to agree upon a number they submit what they think the player is worth to the arbitrator and even then after the numbers are submitted the 2 sides can still make an attempt to come to an agreement on a number somewhere in between the 2.

[shoota]

Career:

Zambrano: 64-42, 977 IP, 3.29 ERA, 1.28 WHIP, 7.97 K/9, 1.94 K/BB

Oswalt: 98-47, 1201.1 IP, 3.05 ERA, 1.18 WHIP, 7.61 K/9, 3.86 K/BB

 

Pitchers better than Zambrano:

Clemens

Oswalt

Carpenter

Santana

Webb

Halladay

Pedro (after he comes back)

Smoltz

 

a case can be made for Peavy as well

 

With the ballparks they'll be pitching in, I wouldn't rule out Schmidt and Zito putting up better numbers than Zambrano this upcoming season.

 

Take a look at his career numbers in AL parks

Yankee Stadium: 6.1 IP, 2.37 WHIP, 8.53 ERA

USCF: 19.1 IP in 4 starts, 1.71 WHIP, 6.05 ERA

@Baltimore: 2 IP, 3.00 WHIP, 13.5 ERA

@Cle, 6 IP, 1.50 WHIP, 3 ERA

In 6 starts in AL Parks, he has managed to go 33.2 innings, with a 1.87 WHIP and a 6.42 ERA

 

I know it's a limited sample size (and it doesn't help that he can barely go 5 innings against an AL team,) but it's not just about the numbers, you can just watch the way he pitches. He's not stupid, and I don't blame him for walking or hitting guys to face the pitcher. El Duque used to do the same thing. Fall behind a hitter 2-0, just walk him. Don't want to face the next guy? Give him nothing but garbage.

 

Very interesting, I had no idea.

 

I forget the statistical analysis, but some believe Zambrano is likely to suffer injury in 2007 because of his 2006 season's walk rates. The theory has something to do with Z's increased 2006 walks compared to previous seasons, and how a sudden increase in walks is a precursor to injury.

Edited January 18, 2007 by shoota

[witesoxfan]

Very interesting, I had no idea.

 

I forget the statistical analysis, but some believe Zambrano is likely to suffer injury in 2007 because of his 2006 season's walk rates. The theory has something to do with Z's increased 2006 walks compared to previous seasons, and how a sudden increase in walks is a precursor to injury.

 

Funny, I've heard the same thing about Oswalt. Not because of walk totals, but because of stature and his diminishing K/9. Guys who are 6'0 170 and constantly throw it in the 92-96 range aren't likely to have clean bills of health, whereas guys who are 6'5 and 250 (and in shape...not like fatass Colon) tend to be able to throw it a little harder and last a little longer.

 

Hell, maybe both end up screwing up their arms. It's not like it's completely out of the realm of possibility.

[WCSox]

That is a one year exmple of WHIP and k/BB. Over the course of their careers, Zambrano's OPS against is 30 points lower than Oswalt's. And, as for sucking against the AL, those stats are for 9 games in the last three years. Zambrano is one of the five-ten best starters in baseball, certaintly better than Zito.

 

One negative on Oswalt is that he has a tiny frame for a power pitcher. Because he's going to need to use his arm more to compensate for his lack of weight and/or leg muscle, I'd say that his chances of suffering a major shoulder or elbow injury are greater than somebody with Zambrano's frame.

Edited January 18, 2007 by WCSox

[Chisoxfn]

Carlos Zambrano sucks against the AL too. He can't hide behind the weak hitting catcher and pitcher.

 

For a supposed ace and Cy Young contender, his K/BB was 24th out 38 NL starters, and his WHIP was 16th.

 

It's a shame Oswalt will be getting much less than this fatass headcase. Oswalt is clearly the better pitcher, yet doesn't get half the hype

I'll take Zambrano as would any other scout in baseball.

 

Of that list you made...Johan is the only starter I'd take over Zambrano. Clemens is pretty ridiculous but he doesn't give the innings that Carlos does.

 

Pedro isn't healthy anymore and the rest of those guys aren't even close to being as good as Carlos, imo.

[Rowand44]

If Zambrano does indeed hit free agency, I hope kenny just throws globs of money at him. He's a psycho but he's one the best pitchers in baseball. The only pitcher in baseball right now that I'd for sure take over him is Johan.

 

I'll take Zambrano as would any other scout in baseball.

Of that list you made...Johan is the only starter I'd take over Zambrano. Clemens is pretty ridiculous but he doesn't give the innings that Carlos does.

 

Pedro isn't healthy anymore and the rest of those guys aren't even close to being as good as Carlos, imo.

Stop thinking like me.

[Chisoxfn]

If Zambrano does indeed hit free agency, I hope kenny just throws globs of money at him. He's a psycho but he's one the best pitchers in baseball. The only pitcher in baseball right now that I'd for sure take over him is Johan.

Stop thinking like me.

We obviously agree on things. And yes, Carlos is one guy worth boatloads of money.