Sox Sign Erstad

[bmags]

we've had a nice run of luck on these injured washed up guys lately. Maybe he'll turn to gold.

[Leonard Zelig]

Has there been any word on his physical?

[CWSGuy406]

Wow, you don't think Erstad deserved to win the gold glove when he won it?

 

That came out wrong. I must have been distracted when I was typing -- I certainly know that, when healthy a couple years ago, Erstad was amazing out there. He deserved the GG, without a doubt.

[Heads22]

I've got a really bad vision of Brian in LF and Darin in CF at some point, as Ozzie is trying things out.

[Heads22]

I'll say May 22nd....

 

The signing doesn't worry me at all. I like it. I'm just fearful of Ozzie's handling of it.

[Rowand44]

The signing doesn't worry me at all. I like it. I'm just fearful of Ozzie's handling of it.

I'm pretty sure that's how everyone feels.

[Heads22]

I'm pretty sure that's how everyone feels.

 

 

Well, I just thought I'd drop my two cents in there. Who knows, maybe he'll hit .300 and win us a few games. Not bloody likely, but I still like him above Sweeney, Owens or Fields on the current roster. Next year I think you'll see one of Sweeney and Fields in LF, and possibly Fields at 3B depending on Crede, as well as the possibility of something new in RF.

 

If we were to trade Anderson, and Pods and Dye exit in the next couple of years, which probably will happen, our OF situation would be the most f***ed up its been in years. At least we know he can play defense, and I still think his bat will come around.

[Chisoxfn]

Last year, Erstad hit as well as Brian Anderson despite playing on one leg. At the very least he is somebody who Brian has to compete with for playing time. Should Erstad hit .273 like he did in ’05 and field CF responsibly, it will provide a floor for Brian. Having watched virtually every game last year, I don’t think Anderson has reached the maturity to be entirely self motivated, and knowing he has to play better than Erstad or grab some pine will make him an improved player.

Excellent post.

 

Has there been any word on his physical?

The stuff I have heard out here on the West Coast has been really positive. They say he's the healthiest he's been in years. The guy had a gigantic bone spur in his ankle that he was playing with and has had some past injuries that have bothered him but he's had a lot of time away from baseball and its allowed those past injuries to heal and apparently his ankle is doing real good (now that the bone spur is gone).

 

I'm actually becoming a much bigger fan of this move. In addition you have past and present Angel team-mates and coaches talking about all the things he brings to a team. It sounds like they are really going to miss him in Anaheim and if he is healthy Sox fans are really really going to love Erstad for the way he plays the game and all the little things he brings to the park day in day out.

 

I am now officially predicting he will start 130 games for the Southsiders. Some in CF and some in LF.

[knightni]

uhuh.....

 

I always wonder when I see that.

 

Did you mean uh-uh as in no, or uh-huh as in yes?

 

 

[knightni]

Okay...

 

[Chisoxfn]

uhuh.....

I'm pretty sure Pods won't be playing much to star the season so Anderson and Erstad can both get plenty of AB's and during that time they may both play great and give Pods a reduced roll (since we know Ozzie wasn't very pleased with Pods last year, nor was Kenny) or one of them may struggle, get hurt or who knows and when Pods comes back he'll take left with the other getting the majority of the playing time in CF.

 

Anderson will get his shot. The team saw enough in him to deal Chris Young a year ago and they made a major statement by holding pat for the most part when there were potential ways to upgrade the position. I think its obvious Kenny thinks higher of Anderson than Ozzie, but at the same time I think Ozzie may be saying a lot of things as motivation now that it has came out that Andreson doesn't always push himself as hard as he should (and if thats the case Ozzie deserves to rip into him because not putting in the proper effort is and should always be unacceptable).

[Chisoxfn]

I am fine with Pods having a reduced role by any means possible, I am just going to have a huge problem when I see Pods AND Erstad in the OF together, and I fear we will see it way more than we should.

Why should we fear that. Erstad has proven in the past he can be a fully capable player and if Anderson plays like s*** he doesn't deserve to start. If Erstad is healthy (and I don't know if he is) than he is worthy of starting for the Chicago White Sox (and 90% of major league teams).

 

Notice I say if he's healthy because if he's healthy Erstad is still capable of being in the top 10-12 defensive CF'ers in the game (maybe better). Obviously its a big question mark but if he's playing a lot I think it will be an indication that he's healthy and playing well (or maybe he's ont playing well but he's still doing better than one of Pods/BA who is doing absolutely terrible).

 

So bottom line, I want to have as many quality players as possible and I have no fear of seeing Erstad out there. No one is going to tell me a healthy Erstad will be worse than Pods/BA were in LF/CF last year so as far as I'm concerned we have nowhere to go but up (ie Erstad is healthy and does solid or BA develops a bit more and isn't quite as terrible or Pods gets healthy and rights ship or none of the above happen and we have just as sorry of a core out there as last year...either way we at least have brought in another option who when healthy is pretty solid).

[Balta1701]

Why should we fear that. Erstad has proven in the past he can be a fully capable player and if Anderson plays like s*** he doesn't deserve to start. If Erstad is healthy (and I don't know if he is) than he is worthy of starting for the Chicago White Sox (and 90% of major league teams).

I think I'll take a second and chime in here...from the perspective of a lot of the stat-guys, Erstad even when healthy has been a terrific drag on the offense of the Angels the last few years. He simply does not contribute much with the bat at all and has not done so for several years. He's been tolerable for that team because of his defensive performances, but he's also been a big part of the reason why they haven't been able to put together an offense around Vlad since their WS run.

 

Erstad in 2000 could start and play for 90% of major league teams. Erstad from 01-05 could start and play for a few ML teams, those that had holes and needed a guy to play solid defense. Erstad after his injuries...probably even less.

[Chisoxfn]

I think I'll take a second and chime in here...from the perspective of a lot of the stat-guys, Erstad even when healthy has been a terrific drag on the offense of the Angels the last few years. He simply does not contribute much with the bat at all and has not done so for several years. He's been tolerable for that team because of his defensive performances, but he's also been a big part of the reason why they haven't been able to put together an offense around Vlad since their WS run.

 

Erstad in 2000 could start and play for 90% of major league teams. Erstad from 01-05 could start and play for a few ML teams, those that had holes and needed a guy to play solid defense. Erstad after his injuries...probably even less.

Ya and that Erstad (01-05) was still better than most outfielders (he just happened to be at 1st base making a lot more money than he should, but that isn't his fault, its the Angels). And I could give a s*** about the stat guys because Erstad doesn't post a high OBP, he still is a career .275 plus hitter, who will get a ton of doubles, steal a clutch base when needed, is a tremendous base runner, a leader on the bench, a hard worker, a guy willing to go out and get hurt if it helps his team win. Ie exactly what this squad needs.

 

And when healthy Erstad will hit .280 and even if he doesn't draw a ton of walks or put up a monster OBP, I'll take him hitting .275-.280 with him being a top 10-12 defensive CF'er and I think if he is in fact healthy he's capable of doing exactly that for the Sox.

 

And Erstad in 2000 would be a star on every major league team (not 90% of them).

[bmags]

i'm willing to wait until spring training to see how the dude does.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

I have to go on record here, unfortunately, as being pessimistic of this outfield.

 

Anderson - love his defense in center and think that he'll be a solid offensive player eventually. Like Crede, it will take 3-4 years. He should improve modestly in 2007 but I'm still not expecting much.

 

Pods- This guy is not even a good defensive leftfielder. If he isn't completely healthy, then he really has very little value. He was very good in 2005 because his defense was pretty solid and he had a good OBP and he stole a lot of bases. But, down the stretch and last year he was getting caught a lot and that just runs the team right out of innings. It's been proven that if a baserunner isn't successful atleast 75 % of the time, then the team would score more runs with no steal attempts. So, if he doesn't have a decent OBP and doesn't steal a lot of bases at a high success rate, then I'd rather have someone else out there. Right now, it looks like he won't be 100 % healthy for the season so I doubt very much that he will have a year like 2005.

 

Erstad- Okay, I like his attitude. But, this guy hasn't been good in years and he isn't 100 % healthy yet. I like him as a 4th outfielder. If he gets a lot of playing time, I think the Sox outfield will be well behind the competition.

 

At this point in their careers, if you combined Pods and Erstad into one player - you'd still have a backup.

[Vance Law]

Last year, Erstad hit as well as Brian Anderson despite playing on one leg. At the very least he is somebody who Brian has to compete with for playing time. Should Erstad hit .273 like he did in ’05 and field CF responsibly, it will provide a floor for Brian. Having watched virtually every game last year, I don’t think Anderson has reached the maturity to be entirely self motivated, and knowing he has to play better than Erstad or grab some pine will make him an improved player.

 

Yeah! Someone made an intelligent, reasonable, well though-out post in this thread without resorting to lame insults and hyperbole!

[alk3kevin]

Ya and that Erstad (01-05) was still better than most outfielders (he just happened to be at 1st base making a lot more money than he should, but that isn't his fault, its the Angels).

From 2001-2006, Erstad has not even had a year that was league average. In the three seasons that he actually had 600+ plate appearances, he posted OPS+ of 78, 88, 89 (100 is the league average). I sincerely doubt he was better than most outfielders during this time span. I'd probably put him in the lower quarter of outfielders during the last five-six seasons.

he still is a career .275 plus hitter

Doesn't mean much when you consider he hasn't had an OPS over .746 in six years.

a leader on the bench, a hard worker, a guy willing to go out and get hurt if it helps his team win. Ie exactly what this squad needs.

Every team needs good ballplayers. Erstad is not great, he is not good, he is not average, he is below average. He does absolutely nothing tangible well. We are stunting Brian's growth for this? Giving Ozzie Erstad is like giving Dusty Baker Neifi/Womack/Macias. This will be the year where Ozzie's hard on for grittiness really hurts us and Brian.

Erstad in 2000 could start and play for 90% of major league teams. Erstad from 01-05 could start and play for a few ML teams, those that had holes and needed a guy to play solid defense. Erstad after his injuries...probably even less.

In short, his good days are behind him (as well as his average ones). The fact that he's on the 25 man roster makes me sick.

[hi8is]

The fact that he's on the 25 man roster makes me sick.

my stupid adolescent response for the day:

booo hooooo.... do you need a band-aid?

[effectivelywild]

From 2001-2006, Erstad has not even had a year that was league average. In the three seasons that he actually had 600+ plate appearances, he posted OPS+ of 78, 88, 89 (100 is the league average). I sincerely doubt he was better than most outfielders during this time span. I'd probably put him in the lower quarter of outfielders during the last five-six seasons.

 

Doesn't mean much when you consider he hasn't had an OPS over .746 in six years.

 

Every team needs good ballplayers. Erstad is not great, he is not good, he is not average, he is below average. He does absolutely nothing tangible well. We are stunting Brian's growth for this? Giving Ozzie Erstad is like giving Dusty Baker Neifi/Womack/Macias. This will be the year where Ozzie's hard on for grittiness really hurts us and Brian.

 

In short, his good days are behind him (as well as his average ones). The fact that he's on the 25 man roster makes me sick.

 

I still hold out hope that BA will be improved enough this year to render this whole thread moot. And it would be hard for him to have a much worse year offensively this time around. BA's .649 OPS isn't even all that much better than Erstad's "injured" .605. So what's wrong with letting two sub-standard hitters compete in a race of "First one to .700 OPS wins".

 

Or let's put it this way---last year we often had Mackowiak subbing in at CF, which made me cringe every time. Surely Erstad will at the very least be a better fielder. And this means we can use Mackowiak in LF

[Chisoxfn]

From 2001-2006, Erstad has not even had a year that was league average. In the three seasons that he actually had 600+ plate appearances, he posted OPS+ of 78, 88, 89 (100 is the league average). I sincerely doubt he was better than most outfielders during this time span. I'd probably put him in the lower quarter of outfielders during the last five-six seasons.

 

Doesn't mean much when you consider he hasn't had an OPS over .746 in six years.

 

Every team needs good ballplayers. Erstad is not great, he is not good, he is not average, he is below average. He does absolutely nothing tangible well. We are stunting Brian's growth for this? Giving Ozzie Erstad is like giving Dusty Baker Neifi/Womack/Macias. This will be the year where Ozzie's hard on for grittiness really hurts us and Brian.

 

In short, his good days are behind him (as well as his average ones). The fact that he's on the 25 man roster makes me sick.

But you have to factor in the fact that for a top of the lineup hitter, I think OPS is extremely over-rated. Add in the fact that you don't compare his positives defensively, on the field or when it comes to sacrificing himself and giving up outs (which he did a whole lot from the 2 spot in Anaheim under Scioscia).

 

For cripes sakes, I understand if people want to say he doesn't have a good OBP for a top of the order guy but thats the only thing you can really slam when it comes to a healthy Erstad. And yes I think stats are such a bulls*** way to go about something. I think you have to factor in a lot of other things and I'm glad our organization doens't just throw stats out there because had we done so we wouldn't have picked up AJ and his crappy OBP/OPS (yes he hits for a decent avg but with no power prior to joining the Sox and we would have ignored the fact that he calls a good game and adds a ton of intangibles; we wouldn't have picked up Cliff Politte because his stats were awful in Toronto or Podsednik who was coming off a down season and statistically wasn't good aside from stolen bases).

 

Ya, stats are the be all end all. AJ brought intangibles to this team (and a good stick for a catcher, even if he won't hit for power). Politte turned into a damn good reliever for two seasons. Pods had a great year for us in 05 (even though he tailed off near the end). Heck, we'd have dumped Garland and Crede long before if we based things on stats and ignored how Garland was young and had stuff or the fact that even when Crede stunk offensively he was a whiz kid defensively.

 

All you guys doubting Erstad will be flat out wrong if he is in fact healthy. If he isn't, you'll be right and we'll have spent 1.5 mill on him. Big whoop...we were paying Ben Davis that in 04 or 05 when he wasn't even on our roster.

 

Sorry for the rant but f*** I hate people that just throw stats at me since I'm so not a stat guy (even though I do look at them, I just don't call them the end all be all).

[alk3kevin]

When Erstad has been healthy, he hasn't been productive. I just feel there's absolutely no reason to stunt Brian's growth for a CF that hasn't done much over the years to warrant any playing time. I get the feeling Ozzie will misuse him and turn him into a starter based on his one phenomenal season.

 

Comparing Darin's stats to Jon's and Joe's situations is irrelevant. There's not much upside to a 33 year old, injury plagued CF.

[GoRowand33]

When Erstad has been healthy, he hasn't been productive. I just feel there's absolutely no reason to stunt Brian's growth for a CF that hasn't done much over the years to warrant any playing time. I get the feeling Ozzie will misuse him and turn him into a starter based on his one phenomenal season.

 

Comparing Darin's stats to Jon's and Joe's situations is irrelevant. There's not much upside to a 33 year old, injury plagued CF.

 

the upside is that he's not scott podsednik

[GreatScott82]

Erstad won't be our every day CF. I don't care what any reporter says at this point... Erstad will start LF until Pods returns..which IMO will not be until early May. When Pods does return, look for Erstad to pinch hit for BA late in games the rest of the year for the old lefty-righty matchups. He will also be the new Ross Gload of the team..giving Pauly some rest every now and then. This was a great pick up and it will not 'stunt' BA's growing process at all. My only concern is who can leadoff? Do we really want a guy leading off who is coming off ankle issues? I guess Gooch would be my best bet..he can definitley get on base.

[beck72]

He simply does not contribute much with the bat at all and has not done so for several years. He's been tolerable for that team because of his defensive performances, but he's also been a big part of the reason why they haven't been able to put together an offense around Vlad since their WS run.

To pin the lack of power production on Erstad is ridiculous. His game isn't predicated on hitting the long ball. The Angels have had too many low SLG guys throughout their lineup. That's the GM's fault, not Erstad's.

 

IMo, this is a low risk, high reward deal. Erstad has always been an intense, hard working guy. Expecting him to hit near his career norms if healthy isn't a big stretch.