2007 Sox. Am I the Only One Scratching My Head?

[LVSoxFan]

I'll explain.

 

2004: Going into '04, I was totally stoked because they hired Ozzie, which I thought was a gutsy and very unconventional move. The season didn't turn out well, but hey: it's his first year. My beef was the feast-or-famine team, capable of scoring 13 runs one game and none the next. While I liked Maggs and C. Lee, if they weren't going yard we were sunk. Clutch hitting? What's that. Jose Valentin? [shudders]

 

2005: It was almost like KW read our minds. Enough of this Big Ball team! We're going smallball/Ozzieball/smartball. Sure the sportswriters dubbed this the experiment doomed to fail, but having been in Minneota's rearview mirror for how many years, why not follow their recipe? I was 100% behind this and not only was psyched about the season, but still can't believe it happened, to this day. Perfect.

 

2006: Well now that everybody and their cousin is apparently a Sox fan (geesh!), there was a certain sense of having what was "yours" now become "everybody's." That aside, we all felt that we were bound to repeat. The team, on paper, was even "better" than the 2005 team. Thome! Vasquez! So while there was a certain WS hangover, we were assured that we're in this to win, not to be one-and-done. Anticipating 2006: exciting.

 

2007: ? I don't know what I feel. I really can't predict with any certainty what I think we will do. Seeing that we pretty much have the core of the '06 team--that finished third--you certainly don't expect anything. Pods out, Anderson our do-or-die CF, WTH is going on with Uribe, etc. etc. And heading into this after a dismal second half of the '06 season which was so painful I stopped watching the last month.

 

It just feels weird, that's all. Not saying we're in bad shape, just that I can't even tell you what shape we are in.

 

Or am I crazy?

[LosMediasBlancas]

I'll explain.

 

2004: Going into '04, I was totally stoked because they hired Ozzie, which I thought was a gutsy and very unconventional move. The season didn't turn out well, but hey: it's his first year. My beef was the feast-or-famine team, capable of scoring 13 runs one game and none the next. While I liked Maggs and C. Lee, if they weren't going yard we were sunk. Clutch hitting? What's that. Jose Valentin? [shudders]

 

2005: It was almost like KW read our minds. Enough of this Big Ball team! We're going smallball/Ozzieball/smartball. Sure the sportswriters dubbed this the experiment doomed to fail, but having been in Minneota's rearview mirror for how many years, why not follow their recipe? I was 100% behind this and not only was psyched about the season, but still can't believe it happened, to this day. Perfect.

 

2006: Well now that everybody and their cousin is apparently a Sox fan (geesh!), there was a certain sense of having what was "yours" now become "everybody's." That aside, we all felt that we were bound to repeat. The team, on paper, was even "better" than the 2005 team. Thome! Vasquez! So while there was a certain WS hangover, we were assured that we're in this to win, not to be one-and-done. Anticipating 2006: exciting.

 

2007: ? I don't know what I feel. I really can't predict with any certainty what I think we will do. Seeing that we pretty much have the core of the '06 team--that finished third--you certainly don't expect anything. Pods out, Anderson our do-or-die CF, WTH is going on with Uribe, etc. etc. And heading into this after a dismal second half of the '06 season which was so painful I stopped watching the last month.

 

It just feels weird, that's all. Not saying we're in bad shape, just that I can't even tell you what shape we are in.

 

Or am I crazy?

 

 

Well, we've all known you're crazy for a long time, but that's for another thread.

I agree with you, I have no idea what to expect from the Sox, or the rest of AL Central this year. That's why I'm so looking forward to it. What's the fun of knwoing what's gonna happen ahead of time?

[SnB]

if the pitching staff doesn't falter this year, we'll contend. If it has the same kind of year has last year, we're gonna be in trouble....again.

[The Critic]

People were scratching their heads about the Ozzie hire (no managerial experience, hothead, etc.)

People were scratching their heads before 2005 (Podsednik was a career minor-leaguer, El Duque is 105 years old, "we" didn't get enough in return for Carlos Lee, etc.)

People couldn't find much to scratch their heads about before 2006, except that the Sox traded away their heart and soul, the best CF ever in history, and bashed Frank on his way out the door.

People will scratch their heads every year, because it's what fans do. There's always a trade "we" should have made or NOT have made, there's always a free agent who's better than the player "we" have at that position, that's what fills up the idle time of the offseason.

 

I'm not going to worry about how the Sox look on paper. I'm just going to watch the games, because that's all I can do...............oh, and maybe I'll b**** about it a little bit here, too.............

[Y2HH]

Last year, with the even better on paper than the 2005 team, we went no where because all of our pitchers weren't there when needed.

 

Some turned it on when it was already too late.

 

Others never turned it on at all.

 

This year, KW went back to the drawing board as he did in 2005...removed some players we will all miss, and added future depth and that uneasy feeling of...wow, will we contend or tank?!

 

I'm not sure about you, but guys like Erstad, while not the greatest players in the world -- or even past their primes -- add an intangable to the team we sorely lacked last year. The new young pitchers, while uncertain in terms of success, are at least happy to be here...

 

Brian Anderson acts like a superstar. He isn't.

 

Brian Anderson needs to act like a baseball player instead of talking about "the honeys" while batting a buck-fifty for half a year. Regardless of Erstad sucking or not...I'd rather have a guy out there who would tear your heart out to win than a guy who thinks hes a superstar before he's done anything.

 

BA needed a kick in the ass to get going. I think Erstad will give him exactly that.

 

I'm looking forward too it. Hopefully some of the 06 bandwagon hoppers are gone and I can begin enjoying the games again live...rather than having to stay home in order to avoid the former Cubs turned Sox fans hanging around.

[LVSoxFan]

I agree with you about not missing the bandwagon jumpers.

 

I realize, Tony, that the 2005 could have gone either way. But I was just excited with the idea that they tore up the team and started over with a brand-new approach. Had we not won in '05 I would still have loved that move.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

I hear ya. You never can tell for sure because luck is involved - not only with the Sox but with their competitors.

 

Personally, 2003 was very bitter for me because after we added Colon and with getting 21 wins out of Loaiza, I couldn't believe that we missed the playoffs and ofcourse the flubs get all the excitement when the Sox had a better team ! Damn. Still mad about it.

 

Anyway, I felt before the 2005 season that the Sox would make the playoffs and I bet money in Vegas on it - not winning the WS. I didn't even imagine that.

 

2006 - I hated the Vazquez trade and still do. I thought Kenny didn't address the bullpen enough before the season yet I still thought the Sox would make the playoffs.

 

2007- For sure the Sox will contend. The Sox always do. They haven't had a losing season since 1999 - a fact Chicagoans don't know because the media will never promote it because it's the wrong side of town. This year should come down to the Sox and Tigers. I think if the Sox miss the playoffs again it will be pimarily due to the fact that Kenny has done little about the outfield problem.

 

However, it is only January, so things can change for the Sox or their competition in the next few months. But, don't fret the Sox will put another winning team on the field and they will be worth watching the entire year.

[Jeff Liefer]

There's a lot of skeptics out there but that's okay- at least you explained where you're coming from. I do agree with you that there is not a correct expectation out there yet, but there are aspects of this team to be excited about. I don't have a clue as to whether the White Sox will be in the post-season or not by evaluating the roster we have, but there are 162 games...how can you predict what's going to take place over that long of a stretch by looking at a roster? It's impossible. The only thing you can do is assemble a group of players that could possibly get you through the season alive. The White Sox have these players; a majority of which that have proven themself before (2005). Just my two cents on the roster:

 

Pierzynski/Hall: Two quality backstops...A.J. is a proven leader and great hitter while Hall is going to be a luxury against LHP for us. Hall is possibly the best backup we've had in quite some time. What a great signing.

 

Konerko/Thome: Paulie is Paulie. I don't have to say more. Thome gets alot of criticism for being older and not staying as hot in the second half of the season. I'm not worried, this guy gets hot- he's still as dangerous as he's always been..and it will happen.

 

Iguchi- Definitly a solid and reliable second baseman. His two seasons here have been above average and consistent. I wouldn't mind seeing him leadoff if Pods is out...

 

Uribe/Cintron- Not the best shortstops in baseball but far from below average..Uribe has hit for good power the past three years and his defense is well appreciated. Cintron is a decent backup, if Uribe is out for a few days even a week or two I don't shudder at the fact of playing Cintron.

 

Crede- So his health is in question...He's not going to mess up his contract year. He'll gut it out and have another productive year. Duplicating last years numbers doesn't seem improbable for the slugger.

 

Podsednik/Erstad/Anderson/Sweeney- The shuffle of LF/CF is going to make this season interesting. Pods and Erstad have both been great baseball players at times during their career. Podsednik more recently. I expect Pods will be OK when healthy. He needs to keep the legs fresh and get on base, clearly. Erstad makes a nice backup. I always liked him. He could suprise because he's healthy again. Anderson will improve gradually, but not enough to even think about him being a consistent contributor. Oh well, we have no choice. Sweeney's very young, but I see him eventually winning an outfield job-in 2008.

 

Dye- J.D. has been amazing for us these past two years. I think he'll drop off from last years rediculously piled stats but it's fair to think his numbers will rest somewhere between 2005's and 2006's.

 

Mackowiak/Ozuna- Always good for a breather. Ozuna's been a pleasent surprise, Mackowiak never really did anything, but we have enough outfield help where he won't be playing much. As for 3rd base, I'd personally rather see Fields in when Crede's hurt (only if he's out for a week or more).

 

Offense- In general, fans of other teams would die to have a lineup like this (unless you're a Yankee fan I suppose)...we're going to be okay in production here, you can count on that. I'm sick of all this leadoff hitter and centerfield talk. So the lineup isn't PERFECT- it's still very good!

 

Starting Pitchers- Buehrle/Count/Garland/Vazquez/Floyd? Haeger? Danks (prolly not)?- You need to realize we have four proven pitchers that have all had great amounts of success in the past. They had a down year and Vazquez just got careless in the 6th inning...It's going to be better. Last year was just one of those problems that had to occur for Cooper and co. to learn how to fix it. It'll be fine. The fifth starter spot is wide open, but I give Floyd and Haeger just as much of a chance as we did for McCarthy. Haeger is looking potentially solid for this role. I like the idea of mixing it up with a knuckleballer at our 5 spot. It may be crazy enough to workout and get us some wins.

 

Relief- I really like what's going on in our pen. I was always a Cotts fan but I think bringing in Aardsma is a good idea. He has all of the pitches to turn into another one of Cooper's prodigies (see Thorton/Contreras). Thorton still has his rocket arm, as does Bobby (not to mention the hammer curve). MacDougal was a success last year, just needs to keep his arm from falling off with that violent delivery. Masset is hyped but I have a crazy feeling he'll live up to it. Logan should be better this time around. It'll be great to see what Coop does with Sisco. He's got a load of talent and I think this could be a key to our season. If Sisco turns out like Thorton then we have four guys (Jenks/Thorton/MacDougal/Sisco) that can split time in the late innings. The youth will keep this bullpen fresh. Very very attractive part of our strategy right here with the young talented arms.

 

Overall- Don't fret. Stay positive. These guys know a thing about winning a ballgame or two. Be happy you're not a Royals fan. What's up with that Gil Meche deal?

[Hangar18]

I'll explain.

 

2004: Going into '04, I was totally stoked because they hired Ozzie, which I thought was a gutsy and very unconventional move. The season didn't turn out well, but hey: it's his first year. My beef was the feast-or-famine team, capable of scoring 13 runs one game and none the next. While I liked Maggs and C. Lee, if they weren't going yard we were sunk. Clutch hitting? What's that. Jose Valentin? [shudders]

 

2005: It was almost like KW read our minds. Enough of this Big Ball team! We're going smallball/Ozzieball/smartball. Sure the sportswriters dubbed this the experiment doomed to fail, but having been in Minneota's rearview mirror for how many years, why not follow their recipe? I was 100% behind this and not only was psyched about the season, but still can't believe it happened, to this day. Perfect.

 

2006: Well now that everybody and their cousin is apparently a Sox fan (geesh!), there was a certain sense of having what was "yours" now become "everybody's." That aside, we all felt that we were bound to repeat. The team, on paper, was even "better" than the 2005 team. Thome! Vasquez! So while there was a certain WS hangover, we were assured that we're in this to win, not to be one-and-done. Anticipating 2006: exciting.

 

2007: ? I don't know what I feel. I really can't predict with any certainty what I think we will do. Seeing that we pretty much have the core of the '06 team--that finished third--you certainly don't expect anything. Pods out, Anderson our do-or-die CF, WTH is going on with Uribe, etc. etc. And heading into this after a dismal second half of the '06 season which was so painful I stopped watching the last month.

 

It just feels weird, that's all. Not saying we're in bad shape, just that I can't even tell you what shape we are in.

 

Or am I crazy?

 

 

Hey man, love your retrospect. Let me add to this though .....

 

2004 - What really happened:

Team offensively did well, but were much too streaky and couldnt Manufacture Runs to save themselves.

Team also didnt help themselves with the Revolving Door 5th Starter.

Bullpen was TERRIBLE, as the 2003 Bullpen was let go, and replaced with unknowns/wanna-be's/never were's.

 

2005 - What really happened. Team took a number of chances, and most of them were very calculated (Iguchi/Dye/AJ), one was outright CRAZY. Finally filling out the 5th Spot, it was destined the SOX would reap dividends. The bullpen was also shored up AGAIN from 2003 purge and it proved itself mightily. The biggest surprise?

Scott Podsednik. Gave the SOX their 1st legitimate leadoff hitter/Speed Threat since RayDurham (and he wasnt really a leadoff hitter) They took a HUGE GAMBLE (I ripped the trade at the time) trading a .300/30HR hitter, for a .250 slap hitter. Easy to say, without Pods incredible 1st half (hasnt been the same since then however) the SOX wouldnt have had the incredible season from Tad Iguchi.

 

2006 - What really happened. Team went thru great pains to add another hitter, and try to make the offense a bit more powerful. Picking up Jim Thome (rather EXPENSIVE acquisition however) Having Mackowiak off the bench, and "trading" for Javier Vazquez, certainly made this team STRONGER ON PAPER.

Heck, they even RE-SIGNED Paul Konerko and paid him handsomely. The SOX did everything right in the offseason and behaved like, well, a World Champion Ballclub. SOX FANS WERE GIDDY. SOXFEST was jampacked with fans. The SOX were the buzz of the town. They Sold Out 52 Games, including all of their season-ticket packages (I remember when the Media and another website claimed the SOX didnt have enough of a Fanbase, we'd always be 2nd fiddle in this town) The one thing Kenny overlooked?

The bullpen. He rightly got rid of the 2 crutches on the team ..........lefty Marte and Vizcaino. In turn, he NEVER REPLACED their bad arms with Better ARms. This proved COSTLY as the other solid arms in the bullpen, Neil Cotts and Cliff Pollitte each took 6 steps backward, and the bullpen proved to be our downfall.

 

2007 - What will happen? I dont know ....... the SOX have seemingly begun setting themselves up for 2008 and beyond (The "heretic" Phil Rogers predicted), and most SOX fans arent all that happy that we may not be as good in 07. Some are happy that the 2 new pitchers from Texas may help us immensely

in 08. We know one thing ........ Sox fans will be pulling for them no matter what ...

[greasywheels121]

This is another content-less hunch, but I have a pretty good feeling about the 2007 season.

 

Last year, I felt the exact opposite, despite the moves we made.

[Rex Kickass]

Without any crazy blockbuster moves, I'm not sure what to think about the season. But then again, I'm not sure what to think about most things - so that's probably a positive.

 

I get worried that we might be a little too focused on dismantling our pitching staff, but then again I've never been certain it was all there to begin with.

 

To be honest with you, the change I'd anticipate most is having Ozzie get fired or demoted. Although he brought the spark that finally lit the fire under the collective ass of the championship team I always knew we had - his managing style seems to get in the way of continued success. The thing I dread the most about Sox 2007 is that poor choices by Ozzie will cost us the five or so games that make the difference between us getting in the postseason and finishing as an also ran again this year. And if that's the case again, a change will definitely need to be made.

[rpmahr]

we have the pretty much the same core as in 2005 and 2006 and both teams were winners...we just did not produce as much as 2005 in 2006 and played in the best division in baseball....how can we not contend, especially when minnesota is weaker with their pitching and detroit will most likely have a sophomore slump and cleveland still doesnt have the pitching minus CC? the way i see it we are the favorites to win the division and possibly go deep into the playoffs if there is no key injuries.

[Hangar18]

The thing I dread the most about Sox 2007 is that poor choices by Ozzie will cost us the five or so games that make the difference between us getting in the postseason and finishing as an also ran again this year. And if that's the case again, a change will definitely need to be made.

 

Ugghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Ozzies slow-to-react style already pains me. It was immediately clear at one early in 06 that Jim Thome wasnt suited for the #3 spot (with Dye coming on the way he did) and it cost us.

His stubborness also led to Rob Mackowiak being in CF game after painful game. It was clear his 3rd time out there that he WASNT a CenterFielder and his poor defense cost us a number of games.

[LVSoxFan]

Wow. Do people here really think Ozzie's that vulnerable?

 

I'm not sure what kind of fallout that would bring, were Ozzie to get fired. I know people here were ridin him hard last season and even I noticed some bad decision-making on his part. But...

 

Anyway GW121 I know what you mean about 2006; I had a weird feeling too. Maybe it was clouded by the thing that we haven't had in so many years: expectations. But yeah something just felt different about that team and, arguably, they really never quite gelled.

 

Actually not arguably but literally. When the bats were hot the pitchers foundered. When the pitchers were hot the bats went AWOL. When the pitching and hitting was there the bullpen would then blow the game. Last year was like the perfect storm of things going wrong, always at the worst possible time.

 

The other thing I remember vividly from '06 is never getting on any sort of a streak. It seemed like we lost every other game in the second half.

 

That said, I guess it can't get much worse than that so I'm really ready for 2007 to begin. I did not enjoy last season at all, not only because the team was worse than bad--it was mediocre--but all of a sudden half of Chicago is at the games.

 

Something else that's obvious but I overlooked: pitching is what got us 2005. In '04 that five-hole absolutely killed us. Last year the pitching just could not get on a roll, plus you had aliens apparently inhabiting the body of Mark Buehrle. If he rebounds and the fifth starter settles in, I'd say we're in good shape.

[Vance Law]

In '04 that five-hole absolutely killed us.

 

The 2, 3, 4, and 5 holes killed us in '04. Buehrle was the only one better than league average.

 

Same as last year (with Contreras, not Buehrle).

 

The 5 hole can't kill us in '07 either. 3 or 4 or 5 bad starters can kill us.

 

It boggles my mind how much complaining and aruing goes on about Podsednik, Uribe, and Anderson's offense- on a team with the number 3 offense in baseball. And it was outright idiotic how much the media jumped on the "smart/small/Ozzie-ball" buzzword bandwagon in '05, when it's beyond obvious that you can win a lot of games ('05) if you have the best pitching in the league, even if you have a mediocre/bottom half of the league offense. Put the '06 offense with the '05 pitching and we'd win roughly 194 games.

[dwalteroo]

Despite all my handwrining over the trades, the one thing I really like about 2007 is that no one is expecting the Sox to win, like they were last year. Even when Thome was bashing the ball early in the season, and the team was out in front of the Central, I felt like the whole world was waiting for the Sox to fall. Now I don't feel that anymore, and that's good.

[LVSoxFan]

Which '04 were you watching? Granted the starters weren't tearing it up beyond Buehrle but that five-hole was abysmal--a virtual guaranteed loss.

 

Arnie Munoz anyone? Pfft.

 

There's players they attempted to put in that spot that I can't even remember...

 

Although I think Diaz managed to win one game.

 

[Kalapse]

we have the pretty much the same core as in 2005 and 2006 and both teams were winners...we just did not produce as much as 2005 in 2006 and played in the best division in baseball....how can we not contend, especially when minnesota is weaker with their pitching and detroit will most likely have a sophomore slump and cleveland still doesnt have the pitching minus CC? the way i see it we are the favorites to win the division and possibly go deep into the playoffs if there is no key injuries.

I'm not really sure how you can say the White Sox' starting rotation is really any better than Cleveland's. Both have a bullpen that's a question mark the Sox' has much more upside but is still a major question mark and Cleveland's offense is better than that of the Sox.

[Chet Lemon]

I completely agree w/ the first post. Before the '05 season started, I was the only one in my work dept. that loved all the offseason moves, thus I split a season ticket package w/ my boss. Before that year, the most games I had been to in a single season was 9.

[LVSoxFan]

Yup I know what you mean. The most I had been to was 15.

 

In 2005 I went to 40 (including 2 in Detroit and 2 in KC).

 

It was magical.

[elrockinMT]

Every year at this time is a toss up. But, the good thing is until after the first game is played we are all 0-0 and tied

Edited January 26, 2007 by elrockinMT

[witesoxfan]

All the Sox need is a lineup similar to this

 

1 - OPS .700

2 - OPS .750

3 - OPS .925

4 - OPS 1.000

5 - OPS .925

6 - OPS .800

7 - OPS .800

8 - OPS .750

9 - .OPS .700

 

If the lineup is capable of that, this offense will be solid and consistent. The #1, #8, and #9 spots killed any consistency the Sox could have had last year, and Iguchi going into the tank for a month didn't help either.

 

The rotation has to put up a collective ERA of around 4.25-4.50. And the bullpen has to be good.

 

If all of the above happens - and it's realistic - the Sox should be atleast an 87-92 win team with the potential for more.

 

Whether Cleveland finally puts it together this year or not is a completely different story. Going against what I said not that long ago, the Indians do have the capability of winning 95+ games, potentially even into triple digits. It's a matter of whether or not they finally put it all together.

 

(as a baseball fan, I'd also wish they would find a real leadoff hitter and get Sizemore out of that role, but if it takes away a few runs from them, all the better)

[LVSoxFan]

You're right about the top & bottom of the order killing us last year.

 

Man I remember we'd be in LF at the game and whenever Anderson came up with two outs people just went to the bathroom, LOL.

[Rex Kickass]

Wow. Do people here really think Ozzie's that vulnerable?

 

I don't think that Oz is that vulnerable... but I think he can be a tipping point both positively and negatively. I like him on the managerial team. I just don't like him in the Skipper hole so to speak.

 

Didn't we go a full year at one point without a win in the five hole?

[badatbest]

I think Ozzie is untouchable for the next few years.

 

I hope however, that he learned some lessons from last year. For example, his desire to let our starting pitchers pitch themselves to a win often let them pitch themselves to a loss. (i personally believe that ozzie's succes in the 2005 playoffs getting 4 consecutive complete games from our startes hurt us bad in 2006) I anticipate that he will have less patience with our starters this year, especially with the apparent upgrades in our bullpen.