Buehrle knows this is it

[spiderman]

It is disapointing that we have key free agents upcoming, Dye and Buerhle next year, Garland and Crede the year after, and I have little confidence, outside of Dye where I think we have a questionable chance, to sign our free agents. I know we can't keep everyone, but we didn't spend any money in free agency (for good reason), and now appear that it's unlikely to keep our own free agents as well.

 

I liked what Williams did this off-season, giving us lot of young pitching with good upside, but I thought this would be complimented with us using our revenues (great home attendance and new money from the CBA deal) to sign our own free agents. Instead we sound like a mid-market team with the "market is too rich for our team" comments - again, I realize we can't sign everyone, but it seems as if the White Sox are committed to rebuilding the team over the next few seasons, while not competing in the current market conditions and depending on their younger players. It sounds like a good strategy - controlled costs, young players with something to prove, but I'm bothered that we seem unwilling to bend at all on players who should still be here in the future - Buerhle, Crede, Dye - to compliment our younger players.

[103 mph screwball]

I liked what Williams did this off-season, giving us lot of young pitching with good upside, but I thought this would be complimented with us using our revenues (great home attendance and new money from the CBA deal) to sign our own free agents. Instead we sound like a mid-market team with the "market is too rich for our team" comments - again, I realize we can't sign everyone, but it seems as if the White Sox are committed to rebuilding the team over the next few seasons, while not competing in the current market conditions and depending on their younger players.

 

The market IS too rich for our team. KW too honest and maybe he should have a stock answer to these free agent questions to quit giving the media fodder. Please don't consider the Sox a mid-market team with a 100 millionish payroll. If the Sox lose Dye, Crede, and Mark and say "whoops now our payroll is 80 million and Sweeney, Fields, and Danks are better anyway", then the Sox have gone cheap. If KW can't keep Mark and Dye, I fully expect Danks and Ichiro. That money will be spent to keep the Sox legitimate contenders for the World Series. It's not about not spending money, it's about spending the money wisely. I am so pissed when the media idiots bring up the notion that the Sox are too cheap to sign extensions even though the Sox fans filled the seats. Half of the media is BIASED and the other half plays to the angst of us Sox fans. Funny how they leave out the Sox payroll figures when the alleged cheapness is being played. Crede has a back issue and is coming off of a career year. Dye is getting older and coming off of a career year. Mark had a subpar season last year and will still command a disproportionately high salary due to Zito. I still expect one or two of them will remain with the Sox. I want all them back. I want KW to keep the Sox World Series contenders more. I understand completely the debate over what KW needs to spend his money on. Please Sox fans, don't consider the Sox cheap as long as they have a 100 millionish payroll and they have not ruled out going higher. The fans have shown up and the payroll has almost doubled in the last 6 years, but the money is not limitless.

[Chisoxfn]

According to Levine the Sox offered Buehrle a 3yr $31 deal last July and it was turned down.

Doesn't surprise me, he's going to get a longer term deal and I Don't blame him for not trying to get 5 years and my guess is that is what his camp countered at.

 

It is a business and if we aren't willing to pay our guys what is fair than we shouldn't be in the business. I'm sorry, we can't just come in here planning on paying guys nothing. I'm not saying we give them the prices this years ridiculous market offers, but at the same time you can't be unwilling to pay guys market level and just be a cheapass org because that will never work.

 

It is one thing if you don't think a guy is worth what he's asking (because its a joke of a contract) its another if you just weren't willing to make him a fair offer (ie going 5/50 to 60 with Buehrle last year). Instaed we lowballed the guy which is flat bulls***. If we were interested in negotiating with him than make a fair offer Kenny, don't throw around this bulls*** when you don't really try.

 

I don't care if we resign him or not but now we are going to have to hear this s*** all season long and its not fair to Mark for what he's done for this organization and its yet another time where Kenny is going to start slamming a guy in the media (its inevitable).

[LVSoxFan]

I am more than tired of KW's mouth at this point.

 

Whoever said he should have a stock answer for these types of questions is right--have the discussions behind closed doors, not through the media, where KW cannot seem to resist any pissing contest opportunity presented to him.

 

We haven't started 2007 yet and KW's talking like this about Buehrle? Great.

 

I understand KW's point about the obscene Zito contract and the market being inflated by WE GET IT ALREADY. He seems obsessed with what he WON'T pay rather than what he will and that, I think, is why he and the Sox are appearing to some people to be cheap.

 

Just SHUT UP and play ball. Remember? Remember when we used to do that? Back in 2005?

[Flash Tizzle]

I've grown weary of these continuous battle of words among departing (or soon to be) players and Williams. Don't suggest, "I don't see where it's a 'battle," either, because it's obvious what's occuring.

 

It's not even an issue of paying whichever player their desired salary -- it's just, personally, I'd like to have one season pass without bickering among Sox players and management. I'm sure the next several seasons will be tremendous with Crede, then Contreras and Garland.

 

And to further clairify my position, I don't question William's reluctance to sign pitchers long-term. The sheer number of pitching prospects acquired this offseason have, at the least, provided him with a stronger system. This is a philosophy I've continually supported; although slightly differed with our organization regarding the return of traded players.

 

What I hope for Williams' sake is Gonzalez and Danks immediately produce once either fill a vacant rotation spot. That McCarthy character better not significantly improve, either.

[Chisoxfn]

I am more than tired of KW's mouth at this point.

 

Whoever said he should have a stock answer for these types of questions is right--have the discussions behind closed doors, not through the media, where KW cannot seem to resist any pissing contest opportunity presented to him.

 

We haven't started 2007 yet and KW's talking like this about Buehrle? Great.

 

I understand KW's point about the obscene Zito contract and the market being inflated by WE GET IT ALREADY. He seems obsessed with what he WON'T pay rather than what he will and that, I think, is why he and the Sox are appearing to some people to be cheap.

 

Just SHUT UP and play ball. Remember? Remember when we used to do that? Back in 2005?

My big thing is Mark is saying the right things, he's saying optimistic things to Sox fans. Kenny can just keep his freaking mouth shut, he doesn't need to respond. Sox fans are going to be excited just hearing Mark say how he wants to stay in Chicago because a lot of them have heard so much about the Cardinals thing.

 

Kenny doesn't need to turn it into a war of words and he did exactly that. I am a big fan of Kenny as a GM (at one point I was probably one of his very few fans) but he is a complete boob when he takes his players and rips them or says stupid crap about them in the media.

 

Just say that our organization is very leary about giving pitchers long term deals and we have yet to approach Mark with a proposal in the year range that his camp would like as our philosphy differs but that Buehrle has been amazing for the Sox and if there was one guy we would consider doing so with it will be Mark but we will have to see how the season progresses and I will not comment any further on any contract discussions.

 

I don't f***ing care if he doesn't mean it, just say that and end it. Don't use the media to do your contract negotiations.

[rpmahr]

honestly it doesnt matter wat kenny williams says because a) buerhle is in a contract year so he needs to pitch well in order to get the money so the words wont affect his performance b. it seems that we arent interested in signing him anyways because if he does has a great season we wont want to dish out the money and long term deal to keep him or if he has a poor season the price would have to be real good for us to take it....so either way buerhle will prolly not be with us next season maybe not even after the all-star break

Edited January 27, 2007 by rpmahr

[Whitewashed in '05]

My big thing is Mark is saying the right things, he's saying optimistic things to Sox fans. Kenny can just keep his freaking mouth shut, he doesn't need to respond. Sox fans are going to be excited just hearing Mark say how he wants to stay in Chicago because a lot of them have heard so much about the Cardinals thing.

 

Kenny doesn't need to turn it into a war of words and he did exactly that. I am a big fan of Kenny as a GM (at one point I was probably one of his very few fans) but he is a complete boob when he takes his players and rips them or says stupid crap about them in the media.

 

Just say that our organization is very leary about giving pitchers long term deals and we have yet to approach Mark with a proposal in the year range that his camp would like as our philosphy differs but that Buehrle has been amazing for the Sox and if there was one guy we would consider doing so with it will be Mark but we will have to see how the season progresses and I will not comment any further on any contract discussions.

 

I don't f***ing care if he doesn't mean it, just say that and end it. Don't use the media to do your contract negotiations.

I completely agree. This war of words during the players departure is getting too f***ing common with KW. He is a good GM, but he needs to close his f***ing mouth. Everyone knows MB is likely gone, he doesn't have to add to it.

 

If the sox want to be known as a clean organization, which they try to be by telling people to get hair cuts, they might as well stick to that damn philosophy (no pun intended.) Instead of arguing that the player is the reason he isn't staying then just f***ing say we can't afford him and enjoy the rest of the time he is here.

Edited January 27, 2007 by Whitewashed in '05

[Flash Tizzle]

It is a business and if we aren't willing to pay our guys what is fair than we shouldn't be in the business. I'm sorry, we can't just come in here planning on paying guys nothing. I'm not saying we give them the prices this years ridiculous market offers, but at the same time you can't be unwilling to pay guys market level and just be a cheapass org because that will never work.

If Buehrle avoided his utterly embarrasing second half, I would have been willing to agree with you. I have nothing available to back up my opinion, but I believe it's obvious his post ASB slide worried the organization. Suddenly, Buehrle wasn't his usual self -- but infact, was the worst starting pitcher in baseball. There's a large body of work which suggests he'll rebound, but you can't completely dismiss the amoung of innings he's thrown since 2001. Signing him beyond 5 years at 15-16 million may not be a smart move for this team. Pitchers with question marks, even those with a resume such as Buehrle, shouldn't be handed a blank check.

 

However, I do agree the low-ball offer they presented is disgusting. Cmon -- did Williams believe he loves Chicago enough to walk away from the 40+ million another organization (Cardinals) may present?

Edited January 27, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[ShoeLessRob]

As most have already stated, it's not even Spring Training yet and this bickering has already begun, wouldn't it make Kenny's life much easier if he just simply answered "I have no comment on that situation at this time." But no... has to keep poking the snake with a stick. Now if this continue's Mark is going to say some s*** and then the cycle repeats and he leaves the organization on a bad note.

[Flash Tizzle]

honestly it doesnt matter wat kenny williams says because a) buerhle is in a contract year so he needs to pitch well in order to get the money so the words wont affect his performance b. it seems that we arent interested in signing him anyways because if he does has a great season we wont want to dish out the money and long term deal to keep him or if he has a poor season the price would have to be real good for us to take it....so either way buerhle will prolly not be with us next season maybe not even after the all-star break

That's not entirely true. More important than his statistics is his health. If Jason Marquis is receiving 21million over three years for posting a delicious 6ERA/1.5WHIP in the National League, what would Buehrle get?

[103 mph screwball]

My big thing is Mark is saying the right things, he's saying optimistic things to Sox fans. Kenny can just keep his freaking mouth shut, he doesn't need to respond. Sox fans are going to be excited just hearing Mark say how he wants to stay in Chicago because a lot of them have heard so much about the Cardinals thing.

 

Kenny doesn't need to turn it into a war of words and he did exactly that. I am a big fan of Kenny as a GM (at one point I was probably one of his very few fans) but he is a complete boob when he takes his players and rips them or says stupid crap about them in the media.

 

Just say that our organization is very leary about giving pitchers long term deals and we have yet to approach Mark with a proposal in the year range that his camp would like as our philosphy differs but that Buehrle has been amazing for the Sox and if there was one guy we would consider doing so with it will be Mark but we will have to see how the season progresses and I will not comment any further on any contract discussions.

 

I don't f***ing care if he doesn't mean it, just say that and end it. Don't use the media to do your contract negotiations.

 

 

That really is the problem isn't it. Not that the Sox are cheap, the fact that KW keeps having negotiations in the media makes the organization seem cheap. All KW had to say was that he was encouraged to hear that Mark wanted to remain with the Sox and that of course the team would love to have him. He could just say that he will continue working to keep him, but the young pitching the Sox were able to acquire this year could be very valuable if things don't work out with Mark. Mark's very valuable to this organization in 2007, has been a honor to have on the Sox, and hopefully, if an agreement worked out, he will remain a valuable member of the team. And so on.

 

Brooks should be contacted and JR should talk to KW about it. This is bad PR and therefore bad marketing. KW may not think MB is worth more than 10 million. KW may not like Mark at all for some unknown reason. JR might have told KW to not sign Mark. Whatever his reasons, if Mark doesn't come back to the Sox, he should be treated well because of his service here, and because the FANS love him. I thought KW tried to do that with Frank at the end, until Frank threw him over the edge into a very unprofessional rant. KW needs to improve his media treatment of his players, even if it means not telling the complete truth to the media. It's not like the media values truth. He should shoot straight with the players, but give the media nothing negative.

[winninguglyin83]

It's time for Mark to put on his St. Louis hat and head down the Mississippi River.

 

The Sox strategy with him has always been apparent.

 

Pitch the hell out of him for six or seven years -- and then wish him well.

 

it's a business.

 

And this is a business decision.

 

Sad, but true.

 

We don't need a buehrle soap opera all year -- and if the team doesn't win, it's going to be a soap opera.

 

Mark has not seemed to enjoy himself since he was told not to slide on the tarp.

 

Thanks for the memories.

[Whitewashed in '05]

Would it make any difference if a bunch of us emailed Boyer and tell him KW needs to shut his damn mouth it's bad for the organization or is there someone else?

 

KW does his job well, but his mouth is the problem. Maybe Mark shouldn't have been talking about the Cards through his time here, but KW is also a hypocrite for criticizing him that he needs to show respect.

[striker]

I would hate to see Buerhle go. He has been our Ace. At some point, we need to reward the players who grew up in our system and who had been successful. Mark has been one of my favorite White sox and I would like him to finish his career with the Sox.

 

We should reward him? $10 million/year isn't exactly minimum wage.

 

Besides, I recall alot of players getting "rewarded" and not earning their money:

Kevin Brown, Darren Dreifort, Chan Ho Park, Mike Hampton

 

 

 

I hate to see Buehrle go but I also hated to see Jack McDowell, Wilson Alvarez and Alex Fernandez go only to be glad later.

 

We said good bye to Magglio, Frank and Carlos and won a championship.

 

I'm betting Buehrle has an awesome year, the Sox at least make the playoffs then he walks.

[South Side Fireworks Man]

My big thing is Mark is saying the right things, he's saying optimistic things to Sox fans.

Buehrle said to the media at Soxfest that KW stated he (Buehrle) would not be in a Sox uniform in 2008. KW never said that. Maybe that's why KW made his comments to the media yesterday.

[shoota]

WMVP played a clip last night of Buehrle stating he wasn't asking for Zito-like money. Buehrle also stated he's willing to take a discount to stay with the Sox.

 

We know Buehrle rejected a 3-year deal at $31 million, and he's open to signing for less than Zito. That means he desires a contract more than $10.33 per year and less than $18 per year.

 

IMO, until KW offers a contract between those two figures, he shouldn't be stating there's no way for him to resign Buehrle.

Edited January 27, 2007 by shoota

[Gregory Pratt]

WMVP played a clip last night of Buehrle stating he wasn't asking for Zito-like money. Buehrle also stated he's willing to take a discount to stay with the Sox.

 

We know Buehrle rejected a 3-year deal at $31 million, and he's open to signing for less than Zito. That means he desires a contract more than $10.33 per year and less than $18 per year.

 

IMO, until KW offers a contract between those two figures, he shouldn't be stating there's no way for him to resign Buehrle.

 

I concur.

[Balta1701]

WMVP played a clip last night of Buehrle stating he wasn't asking for Zito-like money. Buehrle also stated he's willing to take a discount to stay with the Sox.

 

We know Buehrle rejected a 3-year deal at $31 million, and he's open to signing for less than Zito. That means he desires a contract more than $10.33 per year and less than $18 per year.

 

IMO, until KW offers a contract between those two figures, he shouldn't be stating there's no way for him to resign Buehrle.

If I'm in Kenny Williams's shoes, the issue for me would not be the amount per year, it would be the duration. If Mark wants to talk about a 5-7 year deal, then anything more than that $10-$11 million would put me on the hook for more than I would want to spend. I'd be willing to push Zito's Yearly numbers...if I could get it over a short term deal. But I consider it insane to give a pitcher $15 million or more a year over 5+ years, regardless of who the pitcher is, if your total team's salary is in the $100 million range or less.

[Gene Honda Civic]

WMVP played a clip last night of Buehrle stating he wasn't asking for Zito-like money. Buehrle also stated he's willing to take a discount to stay with the Sox.

 

We know Buehrle rejected a 3-year deal at $31 million, and he's open to signing for less than Zito. That means he desires a contract more than $10.33 per year and less than $18 per year.

 

IMO, until KW offers a contract between those two figures, he shouldn't be stating there's no way for him to resign Buehrle.

December 5th

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article...rtnered=rss_mlb

Buehrle and Garcia both have one year left on their respective contracts, but Williams begged off a question Monday in regard to contract extensions being broached with either pitcher. It's an indirect approach Williams rarely takes, but he was honoring an agreement made with one of the two pitchers not to talk about the negotiations.

 

Rest assured, Kenny continued negotiations with Buehrle well beyond July of '06. Buehrle wanted the negotiations kept quiet, and now that he's created the perception that the Sox have no intention of bringing him back by crying "why me" at the Sox winter media event he's trying to position himself for more money.

[Felix]

As Flash said earlier, maybe they don't feel comfortable giving him a 5 or 6 year deal. If I was GM, I wouldn't, not after 2006.

I agree with this, but you have to know that some team will give him a 5 or 6 deal on the market. So if you are Mark, would you rather sign for 3 years here, or get a longer deal from another team? If I were him, there wouldn't be a question that I'd take the longer contract.

[shoota]

If I'm in Kenny Williams's shoes, the issue for me would not be the amount per year, it would be the duration. If Mark wants to talk about a 5-7 year deal, then anything more than that $10-$11 million would put me on the hook for more than I would want to spend. I'd be willing to push Zito's Yearly numbers...if I could get it over a short term deal. But I consider it insane to give a pitcher $15 million or more a year over 5+ years, regardless of who the pitcher is, if your total team's salary is in the $100 million range or less.

 

Yeah, duration of the contract is important for KW to consider. The contract KW offered to Buehrle last season was short-term and at a low yearly amount. So until KW offers any type of contract more than $10.33 per year, he hasn't made an honest attempt to resign Buehrle.

 

 

No we don't. That was reported by Bruce Levine. I like Bruce, but for as much ripping as he takes on these boards, its odd everyone is now believing his words to be gospel.

As Flash said earlier, maybe they don't feel comfortable giving him a 5 or 6 year deal. If I was GM, I wouldn't, not after 2006.

 

Correct, I don't know for certain that KW offered that contract to Buehrle, I was using Levine's report as my source. I do remember talks of Buehrle and KW negotiating last summer, so the report seemed credible to me.

[LVSoxFan]

You know what this sort of reminds me of? The Bulls.

 

Only then it wasn't KW but Jerry Krause who seemed to relish being a hardliner with even icons like MJ. Krause seemed to buy into an over-simplified idea that he was responsible for the Bulls' success because of his genius, not really acknowledging, um, the players on the court and what they did.

 

If Buehrle publicly launched this to lobby for a bigger payday from the Sox, that tells me that he feels frustrated by what negotiations have produced. If he didn't want to stay, he wouldn't even bother talking about this.

 

I still maintain that KW needs to put a sock in it. The man sure does love the sound of his own voice.

 

And after a sub-par 2006 I'd say it's time for everybody to be quiet and start getting back to getting some of the respect back that came from being 2005 World Champs. As in: let your playing do the talking.

 

I'm not in the mood for more Ozzie headlines this year, or KW unnecessarily backhanding players that the fans love (I thought his comments about McCarthy after the Texas trade were a bit snide).

[Felix]

Mark has actually played things pretty well. Aside from the Cards BS, if things keep going down this route, the Sox are going to look pretty bad in all of this.

I don't think that Buehrle's goal is/was to make the Sox look bad in all of this, but I do agree that things are pointing that way.

Edited January 27, 2007 by Felix

[greg775]

Since Kenny makes it clear we won't have Mark B, why didn't we trade him to

Texas instead of BMac??

We should have traded Mark this offseason considering he won't be a White Sox

anymore after this season.

We should trade him to the Cardinals as soon as possible.