Felix Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 QUOTE(greg775 @ Jan 27, 2007 -> 05:56 PM) Since Kenny makes it clear we won't have Mark B, why didn't we trade him to Texas instead of BMac?? We should have traded Mark this offseason considering he won't be a White Sox anymore after this season. We should trade him to the Cardinals as soon as possible. Texas might have wanted BMac more than Buehrle, which is semi-understandable considering age, price, and pending free agency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 QUOTE(greg775 @ Jan 27, 2007 -> 05:56 PM) Since Kenny makes it clear we won't have Mark B, why didn't we trade him to Texas instead of BMac?? We should have traded Mark this offseason considering he won't be a White Sox anymore after this season. We should trade him to the Cardinals as soon as possible. Because you probably can't get Danks alone for Buehrle. One year of proven Buehrle --- This sucks. I usually understand this business side of things - and I do in this instance I guess you could say - but it just sucks so bad that the face of the White Sox for the past 6 years is as good as gone. I wouldn't be surprised if Buehrle would take a 5 year deal from the Sox at around $75-80 mill, but with the year he had last year along with risk of signing pitchers beyond 5 years, it's not even smart to do that. Sucks a biiig one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 (edited) The White Sox would be foolish to offer Buerhle a 5 or 6 year contract for $15+ million a year until they can reasonably determine last years debacle was just a temporary thing. The guy claimed he wasn't hurt, and that he wasn't tired, and he got hit around like the White Sox #5 starter pre-2005. And Buerhle, would be foolish to sign the contract the White Sox were offering if that report is accurate, as even if he has another mediocre year, would command more than that on the open market. I fully expect Buerhle to be a Cardinal in 2008. While KW should keep his mouth shut, Buerhle is actually using his poor 2006 to his advantage. He'll say all the right things but his heart is on the other side of the Mississippi River. I'm sure KW would have dealt him if he could have received anything he could find acceptable, but really who wants to pay Buerhle a lot of money and give up a lot of prospects, for one season of pitching, especially with the question marks Buerhle has going into this season. Edited January 28, 2007 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilMonkey Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 QUOTE(shoota @ Jan 27, 2007 -> 05:07 PM) Yeah, duration of the contract is important for KW to consider. The contract KW offered to Buehrle last season was short-term and at a low yearly amount. So until KW offers any type of contract more than $10.33 per year, he hasn't made an honest attempt to resign Buehrle. If that offer was made during last year, it most certainly was NOT a low offer. The salaries rose to crazy levels during the off season. $10+ million per year was pretty damn good. At that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 28, 2007 Author Share Posted January 28, 2007 The fact is, we're never going to offer Mark Buehrle a 5 year deal, because that's not the method this organization uses to lock up it's pitchers long - term. 3 years, take it or leave it. And I mean I see this, and I think to myself, we should just trade Mark now, get something for him while we can. But you have consider a couple of things here. If you trade Buehrle, you're going to need another SP to replace him. Pretty much most of the SP's are gone in FA now, from Tomo Ohka to Jeff Weaver etc. And we're probably going to get 2 draft picks for Buehrle if he leaves. So my idea would be this, keep him until the deadline, and depending on where we are in the standings, if a team makes a damn good offer, then you trade him, otherwise keep him and hopefully we contend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 QUOTE(Alpha Dog @ Jan 27, 2007 -> 07:15 PM) If that offer was made during last year, it most certainly was NOT a low offer. The salaries rose to crazy levels during the off season. $10+ million per year was pretty damn good. At that time. AJ Burnett dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 I dont blame him for turning down that 3 year offer. Like a lot of you said though, it would be better if this stuff was discussed behind closed doors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmmmbeeer Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jan 27, 2007 -> 05:39 PM) December 5th http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article...rtnered=rss_mlb Rest assured, Kenny continued negotiations with Buehrle well beyond July of '06. Buehrle wanted the negotiations kept quiet, and now that he's created the perception that the Sox have no intention of bringing him back by crying "why me" at the Sox winter media event he's trying to position himself for more money. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees this as something that MB started brewing. Mark took KW's comments and twisted it to say that KW has already told him that he's not coming back. When the hell did KW say that? I never heard anything of the sort. Also genehonda, you bring up a great point with the silent negotiations. If KW got that heated it's obvious that that agreement was broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 This is a very good thread. Many varied opinions offered without any insults or cute remarks regarding anyones basebal acumen. Screwball, Jason, LV, Gene all good points as well as others I havent mentioned. I'd like to add that the constant bickering does make the Sox appear cheap and petty. But more than that its whats going on in all of baseball especially on the northside of town. The Sox are the team that won a recent World Series and made promises that if fans got their butts in the seats they would spend accordingly. Now the market has changed so much that those promises cannot be kept. At the same time the Cubs are giving out $300 million in contracts this offseason. Many fans feel betrayed when promises are not kept while every other team who hasnt won a world series especially your arch rivals is spending money like crazy albeit rather wildly. KW has reacted to the market conditions very swiftly by stockpiling strong young arms. God forbid that none of these pitchers become viable ML talent. I believe in order to keep up with the market conditions the Sox will eventually have to budge off the 3 year limit on a pitchers contract if they ever find one worthy enough. If Buerhle rebounds with a good year he would be a good place to start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 It's going to be like having my heart ripped out when I see Mark in another uniform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 Do you think Buehrle would do a 4 yr deal with an option for the 5th worth around 70 including the option? This ofcourse being done after about 2 months of actually seeing how he responds to last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted January 28, 2007 Share Posted January 28, 2007 QUOTE(Whitewashed in @ Jan 28, 2007 -> 12:29 PM) Do you think Buehrle would do a 4 yr deal with an option for the 5th worth around 70 including the option? This ofcourse being done after about 2 months of actually seeing how he responds to last year. It's certainly an interesting offer. A contract with options -- perhaps options that automatically kick in for the fourth year if he meets certain incentives in the third year -- might be best for both sides. Who knows if KW will actually offer anything, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 (edited) With all this contract negativity talk the last few days, I wouldn't be surprised if KW and Buerhle agree to a nice 4 year deal with a club option for a 5th year worth 12.5 mill/ year. This stuff happened last year with Garland, all the trade talks tuned into a 3 year extension. IMO Buerhle is just as important to this franchise as Pauly is and we all know KW rewarded Pauly. Attendance is always up when Buerhle pitches, he's fan friendly, he grew up with this organization, he helped lead the Sox to their first World Series in 88 years. Yeah he had a below average year last year... but i garuntee you all he win 16+ games this year with an ERA of around 3.5. Solid lefty starters are hard to come by, lets hope KW and JR realize just how important Buerhle is to this organization before the season starts. Because once the season starts it just may be too late to offer a deal. I just don't want to have that sick feeling of him going to another team and dominating for years just like Maddux did when he left the Cubs for Atlanta. That s*** still haunts sCrub fans to this very day. But if he does go, at least we can say we won a world championship with him. Edited January 29, 2007 by GreatScott82 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 I say we save our money for Johan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OilCan Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 28, 2007 -> 07:41 AM) It's going to be like having my heart ripped out when I see Mark in another uniform. Just like when Frank started wearing an A's jersey. Just like Blackjack and that damn Yankees jersey. True. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 I dont' know if anyone has said this yet, but I think it's important to any organization to keep the players that were groomed within. He's the only one of the main players besides Anderson, who hasn't done much yet and Crede. Just thinking KW might pull out more stops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitewashed in '05 Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jan 28, 2007 -> 08:36 PM) I say we save our money for Johan. Me too, but if they don't want to make Buehrle happy, they definitely won't want a 7 year deal for Johan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 QUOTE(Whitewashed in @ Jan 28, 2007 -> 08:09 PM) Me too, but if they don't want to make Buehrle happy, they definitely won't want a 7 year deal for Johan. I doubt they'd get him too, but if it ever happened, I could see it happening. Johan would be a dream acquistion for Kenny. He'd probably give his right testicle to get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jan 28, 2007 -> 08:54 PM) I doubt they'd get him too, but if it ever happened, I could see it happening. Johan would be a dream acquistion for Kenny. He'd probably give his right testicle to get him. This just had to be linked Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreatScott82 Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 Chuck Garfind from CSN just interviewed Buerhle from Soxfest and they talked and Buerhle said right now he wants to come back to the Sox, and he thinks theres a 100% chance he'll be back. However he said a deal would have to be done before the season or after the season if a deal were to get done. Says his heart and soul is for the White Sox and doesn't want to go anywhere else. Buerhle pretty much is saying all the right things as usual... hopefully KW can get something done soon. Buerhle means a lot to this organization and fan base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jan 28, 2007 -> 08:42 PM) Chuck Garfind from CSN just interviewed Buerhle from Soxfest and they talked and Buerhle said right now he wants to come back to the Sox, and he thinks theres a 100% chance he'll be back. However he said a deal would have to be done before the season or after the season if a deal were to get done. Says his heart and soul is for the White Sox and doesn't want to go anywhere else. Buerhle pretty much is saying all the right things as usual... hopefully KW can get something done soon. Buerhle means a lot to this organization and fan base. Wow...this is the rare time the pure fan in me comes out, but Buehrle is one guy who if we sign him I won't complain if it bites us in the ass just because of how big of a fan of his I am. I'd love to see him perform the first month or two before we gave him a big money deal but he's proven so much in his career and still has a lot of good years ahead of him, imo. I also think having him back makes our rotation a hell of a lot better now and in the future (because we'd know that we wouldn't be filling quite as many holes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 28, 2007 -> 10:50 PM) Wow...this is the rare time the pure fan in me comes out, but Buehrle is one guy who if we sign him I won't complain if it bites us in the ass just because of how big of a fan of his I am. I'd love to see him perform the first month or two before we gave him a big money deal but he's proven so much in his career and still has a lot of good years ahead of him, imo. I also think having him back makes our rotation a hell of a lot better now and in the future (because we'd know that we wouldn't be filling quite as many holes). I agree, and I have been preaching all offseason that Buehrle is the one pitcher you can give a long term deal to. In fact, I think he's the only player I'd be very comfortable giving a very long term deal to, and that says something considering he is a pitcher. Given that he's said he'll give the Sox some kind of hometown discount, and there is no way he shouldn't be resigned IMO. I hope I'm not just being biased, but I actually think something will get done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted January 29, 2007 Author Share Posted January 29, 2007 What's some middle ground here with Buehrle? What is he going to ask for compared to what we're going to offer him, and is that gap too large to find a middle ground? We have supposedly offered according to Levine a 3 year $31M deal last off-season. Mark has come out and said he doesn't want Zito money, and he'll take a hometown discount, but not a big one at that (and why should he considering what he could really be paid if he has a good season). So I'm talking years, dollars, and options here. The White Sox obviously have shown they only like to have pitchers locked up to 3 year deals recently. Mark is probably going to want a 5-6 year deal. Could both sides agree to a 4 year deal, with a mutual option for a 5th maybe? Could the Sox make that 4th season an option as well, or would Mark only agree to having the final year of the deal with an option? And how about with the salary. $10M a season obviously ain't going to cut it. Mark could probably get $18M per easily in FA I'm thinking, maybe a little less, maybe a little more. So could the Sox go with a 4 year $60M deal (and they could make the salary ascend or descend depending on where they see the payroll going) with a mutual option at about 16M for the 5th season? Is something like that doable for both sides here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 28, 2007 -> 11:05 PM) What's some middle ground here with Buehrle? What is he going to ask for compared to what we're going to offer him, and is that gap too large to find a middle ground? We have supposedly offered according to Levine a 3 year $31M deal last off-season. Mark has come out and said he doesn't want Zito money, and he'll take a hometown discount, but not a big one at that (and why should he considering what he could really be paid if he has a good season). So I'm talking years, dollars, and options here. The White Sox obviously have shown they only like to have pitchers locked up to 3 year deals recently. Mark is probably going to want a 5-6 year deal. Could both sides agree to a 4 year deal, with a mutual option for a 5th maybe? Could the Sox make that 4th season an option as well, or would Mark only agree to having the final year of the deal with an option? And how about with the salary. $10M a season obviously ain't going to cut it. Mark could probably get $18M per easily in FA I'm thinking, maybe a little less, maybe a little more. So could the Sox go with a 4 year $60M deal (and they could make the salary ascend or descend depending on where they see the payroll going) with a mutual option at about 16M for the 5th season? Is something like that doable for both sides here? I think it's close, but he's going to want atleast 5 with an option for the 6th, perhaps either a player option or a vesting team option with like 1000 innings or something very achievable. Say 5/$75 with an $18 mill option for the last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted January 29, 2007 Share Posted January 29, 2007 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 28, 2007 -> 11:13 PM) I think it's close, but he's going to want atleast 5 with an option for the 6th, perhaps either a player option or a vesting team option with like 1000 innings or something very achievable. Say 5/$75 with an $18 mill option for the last year. That'd be great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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