Vance Law Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Proximity to major leagues is a major criteria- most people on the list have AA or AAA experience, and no one who can no longer qualify as an MLB rookie, Fields at #17. Says he close to Crede with the bat already and shows better strike-zone command than typical for multi-sport guys (hasn't been focused only on baseball for all that long). With Fields and now Erstad, the Sox could put up one hell of a football team, once they get like 20 more football players. The point is, they could field one hell of a 2-man Punt, Pass. Kick Competition team. Top 4 in the AL Central at least, anyway. Danks is #24. He's the 6th of only 6 pitchers on the list, right behind Garza. Chris Young, incidentally, is listed as #3. Woops-a-daisy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Well, you indirectly answered one of the questions I posed in another thread. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...p;#entry1348466 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted January 30, 2007 Author Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 10:27 PM) Well, you indirectly answered one of the questions I posed in another thread. http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?sh...p;#entry1348466 Didn't see that thread. Danks is the top LHP in the ESPN list (the only one in the top 25). 12 more players are listed as Honorable Mentions, and the Indians Chuck Lofgren is the only LHP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 How do we all feel about the assertion that Fields' bat is about as good as Crede's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(Vance Law @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 10:33 PM) 12 more players are listed as Honorable Mentions, and the Indians Chuck Lofgren is the only LHP. I think what flash wants is a consensus list of the top LH prospects in baseball. The top 6-7, going by what I've seen collected over these intertubes, goes something like this... Elbert (Dodgers) Miller (Detroit) Danks (White Sox) Kershaw (Dodgers) Lofgren (Indians) Gio (White Sox) I feel like I'm missing someone there....Where the top three are the next wave of lefties that we'll see at the major league level, and are pretty much interchangable. Kershaw being the WUNDERkid, representing the best of the class that won't see the bigs for a couple more years. And Gio/Lofgren are the tops of the second wave behind the top 3. The Indians also have Sowers, who just lost his rookie eligibility, and would be ranked right in the middle of the top 3. He's just 3 months to a year a head of them reaching the majors, but profiles more as a Buehrle-type control artist rather than the strikeout guys on this list. Of course you could also toss Sisco back into this mix as a "hidden prospect." His stuff and success in his initial big league campaign would have him among the top 3. He just turned 24 a week or two ago. He's the same age as Sowers with about the same amount of succes at the major league level, but he's got better pure stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 12:00 AM) I think what flash wants is a consensus list of the top LH prospects in baseball. The top 6-7, going by what I've seen collected over these intertubes, goes something like this... Elbert (Dodgers) Miller (Detroit) Danks (White Sox) Kershaw (Dodgers) Lofgren (Indians) Gio (White Sox) I feel like I'm missing someone there....Where the top three are the next wave of lefties that we'll see at the major league level, and are pretty much interchangable. Kershaw being the WUNDERkid, representing the best of the class that won't see the bigs for a couple more years. And Gio/Lofgren are the tops of the second wave behind the top 3. The Indians also have Sowers, who just lost his rookie eligibility, and would be ranked right in the middle of the top 3. He's just 3 months to a year a head of them reaching the majors, but profiles more as a Buehrle-type control artist rather than the strikeout guys on this list. Of course you could also toss Sisco back into this mix as a "hidden prospect." His stuff and success in his initial big league campaign would have him among the top 3. He just turned 24 a week or two ago. He's the same age as Sowers with about the same amount of succes at the major league level, but he's got better pure stuff. I really like what you said here. I take it you really liked KW's moves this offseason regarding the young pitching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 11:00 PM) I think what flash wants is a consensus list of the top LH prospects in baseball. The top 6-7, going by what I've seen collected over these intertubes, goes something like this... Elbert (Dodgers) Miller (Detroit) Danks (White Sox) Kershaw (Dodgers) Lofgren (Indians) Gio (White Sox) I feel like I'm missing someone there I've seen most lists put the following ahead of Gio: Donald Veal (Cubs) Troy Patton (Astros) Jacob McGee (Devil Rays) Franklin Morales (Rockies) This rounds out your top 10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrunkBomber Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 10:54 PM) How do we all feel about the assertion that Fields' bat is about as good as Crede's? This is what I was thinking. Its easy to say his bat is as good as Credes but its a lot different for him to perform on the field then. Rarely are hitters at the level Crede is at right now right when they come up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gene Honda Civic Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Veal was a Sox draft pick. he's older than Gio, dominated this year like at the level Gio did last year. And guess what, he can't find the zone either. Patton is the same age as Gio, and spent 50 similarly unremarkable innings at AA this year. McGee is what Gio was a year ago, as is morales. The only thing they have over Gio is that they didn't struggle in AA..... Because they haven't reached AA yet, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 10:54 PM) How do we all feel about the assertion that Fields' bat is about as good as Crede's? It's simply not even close to true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 06:39 AM) It's simply not even close to true. Im not saying that it is, but exactly how many Charlotte games did you attend to be able to say this statement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 12:41 AM) Im not saying that it is, but exactly how many Charlotte games did you attend to be able to say this statement? None. I'm going based off of what I've heard from other people, and from proven reliable stats (such as AB/K and BABIP, along with projections too). I figure it's a pretty fair assessment, and unless people expect Crede .260/.750, or if they expect Fields to hit .260/.750 - I would expect Crede to hit in the .280-.300/.800-.850 range with Fields hitting in the .230-.250/.700-.750 range. Perhaps not light years difference, but there's quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 I might downplay Crede's offensive abilities/accomplishments more than anyone on the board (and rightfully so I might add) but I can't even go as far as to proclaim Josh Fields equally with the bat to that of Joe Crede. Of course if Joe Crede does follow the career path I believe he will have *cough*sprague*cough* Josh Fields might just catch Joe quicker than most would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 06:58 AM) Not going to answer for Wite, because I'm sure he has an answer different than mine, since there are many to this question, but if Fields was in fact close to being a .280-.320-.800 type player, than the Sox would have found a spot for him on the 2006 roster. Im not even sure if Crede is that hitter, Im a big Crede fan and last year he was great for us, but I want to see it again b4 im a true believer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Wont we all feel like its a downgrade when Joe leaves?Fields will never be defensively what Joe is,never.I dont care how much more of a bat Fields brings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(shipps @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 02:14 AM) Wont we all feel like its a downgrade when Joe leaves?Fields will never be defensively what Joe is,never.I dont care how much more of a bat Fields brings. Never say never - Field's is athletic enough, and besides that point, Crede isn't a GG caliber defensive 3Bman. He's close - silver glove, if you will, but he's not gold. And defense can be a bit overrated, especially if the player is good enough offensively to make up for defensive shortcomings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 02:59 AM) Never say never - Field's is athletic enough, and besides that point, Crede isn't a GG caliber defensive 3Bman. He's close - silver glove, if you will, but he's not gold. And defense can be a bit overrated, especially if the player is good enough offensively to make up for defensive shortcomings. Dude,Crede certainly has gold glove caliber defense.Just because he hasnt won one doesnt mean anything especially with that award.And as far as Fields being athletic enough is not the question, its just a matter of having the natural ability which Joe has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimne piwo Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(shipps @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 03:16 AM) Dude,Crede certainly has gold glove caliber defense.Just because he hasnt won one doesnt mean anything especially with that award.And as far as Fields being athletic enough is not the question, its just a matter of having the natural ability which Joe has. This is true; while the Gold Glove is a major honor, the way it's handed out reeks to high heaven of "popularity contest". Edited January 30, 2007 by zimne piwo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 01:52 AM) Im not even sure if Crede is that hitter, Im a big Crede fan and last year he was great for us, but I want to see it again b4 im a true believer. In that case he's really ahead of Fields who hasn't shown it once. And showing it the first time is harder than showing it the second. At some point in being a fan I stopped worrying about who and just am grateful there are two guys that can play the position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jan 29, 2007 -> 10:54 PM) How do we all feel about the assertion that Fields' bat is about as good as Crede's? If past history is any indication, I fully expect Josh Fields to struggle through a couple of seasons, before finally getting it. I think the potential is there, but it is years away from being reality if it does happen. His swing still looks really long, and that will cost him for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(Texsox @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 12:37 PM) In that case he's really ahead of Fields who hasn't shown it once. And showing it the first time is harder than showing it the second. At some point in being a fan I stopped worrying about who and just am grateful there are two guys that can play the position. How do you figure? Bad players have career years all the time and than after that they go back to their annual crappiness. And Fields hasn't had a chance to show it, like I said I don't really think Fields is a better hitter right now than Crede is, just I'm not sure if Crede is the hitter everyone thinks/wants him to be either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 08:05 AM) How do you figure? Bad players have career years all the time and than after that they go back to their annual crappiness. And Fields hasn't had a chance to show it, like I said I don't really think Fields is a better hitter right now than Crede is, just I'm not sure if Crede is the hitter everyone thinks/wants him to be either. How many guys have played that never had a great year, now how many have had one then none. I believe the never hads are a longer list than the have one and only one. That's how I was thinking of it. Plus all the guys that never have a chance at the MLB level, that peak at A, AA, or AAA. So having that first one is a lot harder than the second. The second one, you've already been there and done that. You have some experience, confidence, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoodAsGould Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(Texsox @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 02:17 PM) How many guys have played that never had a great year, now how many have had one then none. I believe the never hads are a longer list than the have one and only one. That's how I was thinking of it. Plus all the guys that never have a chance at the MLB level, that peak at A, AA, or AAA. So having that first one is a lot harder than the second. The second one, you've already been there and done that. You have some experience, confidence, etc. Eh, you have a point, but there are a lot of guys who have 1 and than never again. And I'm looking at players who actually have the talent to produce big seasons at the mlb level not the guys who project to be backups(Timo Perez etc.) And usually if a guy has the talent and is given time to succeed at a mlb level he will atleast produce one solid season. In Crede's case he was given 3 1/2 seasons or so before he produced any results. Hell, you can look at last season and look at Gary Mathews jr... it took him about 6 but than he produced a very good season. Or than there is Corey Patterson he had a very solid season that was shortened by injury but than what has he done since than, or Matt Lawton who has been in the league for how many years and really has only produced one great season. Or how about Orlando Cabrera, besides 03 he hasnt really been a productive hitter The key here is im looking at guys who have the talent to be very good and because of that talent are given long lengths of time to show it and if given enough seasons that will usually result in atleast 1 really good season aka the career year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanOfCorn Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jan 30, 2007 -> 08:35 AM) Eh, you have a point, but there are a lot of guys who have 1 and than never again. And I'm looking at players who actually have the talent to produce big seasons at the mlb level not the guys who project to be backups(Timo Perez etc.) And usually if a guy has the talent and is given time to succeed at a mlb level he will atleast produce one solid season. In Crede's case he was given 3 1/2 seasons or so before he produced any results. Hell, you can look at last season and look at Gary Mathews jr... it took him about 6 but than he produced a very good season. Or than there is Corey Patterson he had a very solid season that was shortened by injury but than what has he done since than, or Matt Lawton who has been in the league for how many years and really has only produced one great season. Or how about Orlando Cabrera, besides 03 he hasnt really been a productive hitter The key here is im looking at guys who have the talent to be very good and because of that talent are given long lengths of time to show it and if given enough seasons that will usually result in atleast 1 really good season aka the career year. Don't let Anthrax Fan hear you say that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Shouldn't Joe Crede be capable of batting above sixth or seventh in the order before he is handed a contract worth over $10M a season? I like Joe Crede but Fields is a much better athlete and athletes can turn into Joe Crede type defenders (see Brandon Inge). Crede had and still can have a very long swing. He also can be fooled greatly on offspeed pitchers. Oh and wheather it was the back or not, he was not a GG thirdbaseman in the 2nd half last season. I have never seen Fields play so I leave it to the paid professionals to make the call on wheather to invest $70 to $80M in Joe Crede or go with Fields. I believe we will not see Fields as his potential right now is worth more than this production should a good trade arise. I actually think Juan Uribe is the thirdbaseman of hte future if he learns how to hit at a consistent level and stays out of the slammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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