Fields and Danks in 1st annual ESPN Scouts Inc. top 25

[Balta1701]

Shouldn't Joe Crede be capable of batting above sixth or seventh in the order before he is handed a contract worth over $10M a season? I like Joe Crede but Fields is a much better athlete and athletes can turn into Joe Crede type defenders (see Brandon Inge). Crede had and still can have a very long swing. He also can be fooled greatly on offspeed pitchers. Oh and wheather it was the back or not, he was not a GG thirdbaseman in the 2nd half last season.

Joe Crede only hits 6th/7th on this team because of how good the people in front of him are. There are quite a few teams in the big leagues where he'd have hit 4th or 5th. The Angels, Tigers come to mind immediately.

I actually think Juan Uribe is the thirdbaseman of hte future if he learns how to hit at a consistent level and stays out of the slammer.

I think Uribe has a much better chance of staying at SS and not learning how to hit than he does of learning how to hit and moving to 3rd. I also think he has a good chance of eating himself right out of the major leagues. Edited January 30, 2007 by Balta1701

[Heads22]

For anyone that watched the AAA All-Star game last year, or saw the Futures game.....the thing about Josh is he swings hard and misses...quite a bit. However, when he makes contact, it's a rocket quite a bit of the time. He's going to struggle, but I think he'd hit better than BA did in the first half if brought up right now.

[Balta1701]

For anyone that watched the AAA All-Star game last year, or saw the Futures game.....the thing about Josh is he swings hard and misses...quite a bit. However, when he makes contact, it's a rocket quite a bit of the time. He's going to struggle, but I think he'd hit better than BA did in the first half if brought up right now.

Swinging and missing has been BA's problem too. And, IIRC, Crede's as well. Lack of command of the strike zone.

[Chisoxfn]

How do we all feel about the assertion that Fields' bat is about as good as Crede's?

Longterm wise I wouldn't be surprised if Fields had as good of a bat as Crede. Defensively I don't think Fields will ever be Crede and people should note that I say long term because Josh isn't the type of guy that is just going to come up and hit and hit and hit (there really aren't many of those guys in the minors and the Sox sure as heck don't have any with the potential possibility that I think if Sweeney gets a bit more time he could come up and hold his own average wise/defensively).

 

Not going to answer for Wite, because I'm sure he has an answer different than mine, since there are many to this question, but if Fields was in fact close to being a .280-.320-.800 type player, than the Sox would have found a spot for him on the 2006 roster.

Why, he clearly wasn't ready for it. That isn't to say he isn't capable of being that in the future. From a pure hitting standpoint Fields does have the ability to be better than Crede on different levels but he right now he isn't nowhere near the hitter Joe is (but Joe had plenty of time in the minors as well as plenty of time to develop in the majors).

 

I just laugh at people that think we can trade Joe and replace his production with fields right away (just like I laughed at people saying that Anderson was going to come in and replace Rowand with ease...even though Rowand was vastly over-rated by many and under-rated by a lot less). It doesn't work that way unless you have that very rare minor leaguer (typically would be amongst the top 5 prospects in all of the game) who just is a pure pure hitter.

 

For anyone that watched the AAA All-Star game last year, or saw the Futures game.....the thing about Josh is he swings hard and misses...quite a bit. However, when he makes contact, it's a rocket quite a bit of the time. He's going to struggle, but I think he'd hit better than BA did in the first half if brought up right now.

Its not hard to have a more god awful swing/plate approach than Anderson did. Its why I said he needed a lot more time and was always tougher on him than most when we wrote up our FutureSox evals (because his current swing just didn't translate to major league success). He has cleaned it up a bit but I still think it has a ways to go (Yes if he does get it figured out he has the ability to be a good offensive player but I still think his peak is more in the Torri Hunter range where he'll hit in the lower .270's with some pop, probably a bit less than Hunter, steal some bases and play very good defense and I'd take that. I just think that like Hunter, it may take Anderson a few years to get to that point.

[Chisoxfn]

You know I was trying to make the point that Fields bat isn't that close to Crede's right now, as the article claimed it to be.

I figured that, but I saw the whole should be a starter in 06 and I was surprised. The rest of those comments weren't at all directed at you Tony but I try to bring up the point that people that claim that such and such rookie is for sure going to be better than such and such are usually pretty pointless (unless the person they are replacing is a rookie that was absolutely terrible).

 

For example, I'd feel confident that Ryan Sweeney would outhit BA's line of last year. But for some people (such as ESPN) to claim that Fields would outhit Crede is flat out nuts. Maybe in time he would, but why not keep Joe, get Josh ab's at both 3rd and LF (if he is on the major league roster I want him to get at least 300 Ab's) and get him acclimated so that in a year from now (if we do decide to part with Joe this off-season, which would be the time to move him, imo) and than we can move him with a better idea of what we have in Josh (as well as Josh having a better idea of what the major leagues are all about).

 

At the same time I think another year in AAA would be very beneficial for Josh because I think he has things to work on with his swing (ie shortening it up).

[witesoxfan]

Dude,Crede certainly has gold glove caliber defense.Just because he hasnt won one doesnt mean anything especially with that award.And as far as Fields being athletic enough is not the question, its just a matter of having the natural ability which Joe has.

 

First of all, if you watched him, you'd realize he doesn't have near the range that Inge or Punto had last year, nor Chavez and Koskie when they were good defensively (haven't seen much of Koskie recently, but he was a wall at 3B when he was with the Twins - he just couldn't stay healthy enough to win a GG). I also haven't seen much of Beltre, but I've heard he's GG caliber defensively too, and there are others that are great defensively too. Crede's in the 4-6 range in terms of defense at 3B in the AL right now, leaving him in the top half, but not among the elite.

 

Crede's not GG, and that I know. If he hits better, and he becomes more popular, than winning a GG is a possibility. It doesn't mean he's worthy though, because Jeter sure as hell isn't worthy.

 

Oh, and...

 

And as far as Fields being athletic enough is not the question, its just a matter of having the natural ability which Joe has.

 

Ummm......yeah......sooooooo, you kinda just completely contradicted yourself. Cuz athleticism sort of has to deal with natural ability.....yeaaaaaaaaaaaah

[Balta1701]

Oh, and...

Ummm......yeah......sooooooo, you kinda just completely contradicted yourself. Cuz athleticism sort of has to deal with natural ability.....yeaaaaaaaaaaaah

In baseball, not entirely...you can have a ton of natural baseball ability and be pretty darn unathletic. Some names like David Wells, CC Sabathia, Cecil Fielder, Tony Gwynn, Bobby Jenks come to mind immediately. Not exactly marathon runners, but pretty darn good baseball players.

[RockRaines]

For anyone that watched the AAA All-Star game last year, or saw the Futures game.....the thing about Josh is he swings hard and misses...quite a bit. However, when he makes contact, it's a rocket quite a bit of the time. He's going to struggle, but I think he'd hit better than BA did in the first half if brought up right now.

That ball sure does jump off of his bat.

[witesoxfan]

In baseball, not entirely...you can have a ton of natural baseball ability and be pretty darn unathletic. Some names like David Wells, CC Sabathia, Cecil Fielder, Tony Gwynn, Bobby Jenks come to mind immediately. Not exactly marathon runners, but pretty darn good baseball players.

 

Defensively?

 

...there is reading the ball off the bat. Joe does it pretty well, but he's not as athletic as Fields by all accounts. If Fields can read the ball well off the bat, his athletic ability could allow him to become a pretty solid regular at 3B.

Edited January 30, 2007 by witesoxfan

[WHITESOXRANDY]

To me it seems a near certainty that Crede will leave after 2008 for free agency.

 

So, Fields is a natural replacement already in place. Why not send him back to Charlotte and have him improve his game all-around there at 3B ? Then, bring him up in Sept. for a callup. If he's ready, trade Crede over the winter and get the best haul you can for him.

 

Fields will be much closer to Crede's ability a year from now if the Sox keep him at third. In a few years he might be a better hitter than Crede and maybe close defensively.

[Steve9347]

How do we all feel about the assertion that Fields' bat is about as good as Crede's?

 

I'll believe it when I see it.

[RockRaines]

just trade for ichiro and put the LF concerns behind us.

[Chisoxfn]

just trade for ichiro and put the LF concerns behind us.

Sometimes I wonder if Figgins isn't the right option now that Pods is down. We know what we could get out of Figgins and while I don't want to see Figgins in center, he could be a backup option if Erstad is hurt and Anderson sucks while at the same time be a primary option for left field (where he would be an above average defensive left fielder) all while at the same time giving the Sox some stability at the top of the order (and yes he is coming off a down year, but this guy is a better hitter than he was in 06 and he is truly one of the best/most lethal base runners in the game.

 

I would not be opposed to offering up the right package to the Angels for Figgins with him playing LF . Let BA/Erstad battle it out for time in CF and if both suck/fail after the first month you can move Figgins to CF and find a LF (either give Fields/Sweeney a quick chance) or make a trade or really shake things up and by this time Pods will be ready and go with a speedy 1/2 part of the lineup and move Guchi to a power spot in the lineup (or even do something like Figgins 9, Pods 1 or vice versa, Guchi 2 which means the 2nd and 3rd times through the lineup you have almost an extra leadoff hitter.

[GoodAsGould]

Sometimes I wonder if Figgins isn't the right option now that Pods is down. We know what we could get out of Figgins and while I don't want to see Figgins in center, he could be a backup option if Erstad is hurt and Anderson sucks while at the same time be a primary option for left field (where he would be an above average defensive left fielder) all while at the same time giving the Sox some stability at the top of the order (and yes he is coming off a down year, but this guy is a better hitter than he was in 06 and he is truly one of the best/most lethal base runners in the game.

 

I would not be opposed to offering up the right package to the Angels for Figgins with him playing LF . Let BA/Erstad battle it out for time in CF and if both suck/fail after the first month you can move Figgins to CF and find a LF (either give Fields/Sweeney a quick chance) or make a trade or really shake things up and by this time Pods will be ready and go with a speedy 1/2 part of the lineup and move Guchi to a power spot in the lineup (or even do something like Figgins 9, Pods 1 or vice versa, Guchi 2 which means the 2nd and 3rd times through the lineup you have almost an extra leadoff hitter.

 

Id love a deal to the Angels involving Figgins/Aybar being sent to us, even if we have to lose Crede to do so.

[bigruss]

Id love a deal to the Angels involving Figgins/Aybar being sent to us, even if we have to lose Crede to do so.

 

I'd hate to see us give up crede (this year atleast) since i believe fields will be a good player, just needs another year in the minors for seasoning, but figgins could def solve our leadoff spot and aybar sure seems like he's going to be a stud, but right now im not sure if the loss of crede is outweighed by the gain of figgins and aybar

[winninguglyin83]

Another year for Fields at AAA is fine with me.

He's never repeated any level.

 

He could use more developmental time because of all the football.

 

And he could improve his play at 3b and gain confidence with the stick.

 

same for Sweeney.

 

In fact, he needs more AAA time than Fields.

[DBAHO]

just trade for ichiro and put the LF concerns behind us.

Or better yet, sign him as a FA next off-season.

 

I can't see him re-signing with the Mariners unless they're a +.500 team this season.

[shipps]

Sort of is such a convincing word wite.Crede has the "softest hands"you will find.Is range really a factor with third baseman anyways?They have the least amount of time to react than any other fielder,its really just a matter of getting good hops and catching every thing that is hit to you.Joe does that.

Edited January 31, 2007 by shipps

[witesoxfan]

Sort of is such a convincing word wite.Crede has the "softest hands"you will find.Is range really a factor with third baseman anyways?They have the least amount of time to react than any other fielder,its really just a matter of getting good hops and catching every thing that is hit to you.Joe does that.

 

First of all, that last part was pretty much completely sarcastic, hence the drawn out words. Athleticism has everything to do with natural ability.

 

Secondly, not everything will be hit at you. You are responsible for any ball hit in your direction that you can get to. That is called range. Some have better range than others. So, if that doesn't prove that range is a factor, then nothing ever will.

 

Thirdly, Crede having the "softest hands" I will find is kind of what I like to call an "opinion", and it is also a term that has a "subjective definition." Seeing as how Mike Lowell had the same number of total chances, and he made 4 fewer errors, I'd have to believe he has softer hands than Crede. That would make sense anyways, right?

 

Finally, I'm only arguing that Fields may at some point in time be as good as Crede defensively at 3B, because he has the tools to do so, or perhaps better tools. I also said that, at the very least, Fields could be come a league average defensive 3Bman - which is not as good as Crede - but that he may be able to make up for it offensively, though I would venture to bet that Crede would put up better offensive numbers next year, and he might blow Fields' numbers out of the water, if Fields were able to play a whole season in the majors. That won't happen, so we're merely arguing a hypothetical point.

[Leonard Zelig]

I would guess that whatever position Fields is playing in AAA next year would be an indication of where the Sox think he will pay in the majors.

[Hangar18]

Dude,Crede certainly has gold glove caliber defense.Just because he hasnt won one doesnt mean anything especially with that award.And as far as Fields being athletic enough is not the question, its just a matter of having the natural ability which Joe has.

 

 

Tell me about it. During the playoffs/WS in 05, stupid National Media kept being surprised at how "good" Joe Crede was. I kept saying to myself "yeah idiots, if you would've paid more attention to the Winning Team around here, you wouldnt have missed the Crede boat"