Obama Watch

[Texsox]

I'm probably being idealistic when I say something like that, but I think the road to hell is paved with good intentions. There are unintended consequences when it comes to everything. I do understand the need that people have to help like minded groups, and I can't imagine taking that away from people. Now that being said, I do think that the good these groups do is undermined by these unintended consequences. Many organizations are settting themselves up as a "separate but equal" format, without even realizing they are doing it.

 

In reality many studies have been done to indicate that while race, sex, etc type gaps still exsist, you chances in life are much more handicapped by being born poor, versus any other factor. Your young age socioeconomic status is the truest indicator of your future life. Why no NAAPP? Because it wouldn't get attention.

 

I understand your point, and perhaps another way of looking at it is too much of a good thing can be bad. Like mentioned earlier, the KKK is a perfect example of going too far and there are examples of that in every community. Violence, hatred, supremacy, of any color is wrong. But moving away from that extreme is an arena where it is good. We probably draw that line in a different place.

 

A big portion of God's Ministries around the world and throughout the past 2,000 plus years has been community specific. Los Angeles, San Antonio, etc. were settled first by missionaries working with the native populations. I believe their mission statement would have been very race specific.

 

Most major companies now are marketing to the Spanish speaking population. It isn't racist if that unit has a mission statement that promotes their brand in that community.

 

There is no NAAPP because the members can not pay for it.

 

 

I think eliminating racism is about focusing on people and what they bring to the table as individuals. If it happens to be that part of who Bob is comes from his Irish ancestry, so be it. Me putting him in the Irish category and making assumptions about him based on that helps no one. Better for me to focus on Bob for the complete package that is Bob.

 

Does that make more sense? Yes, our differences are key, and I personally like having people around me from a variety of experiences and backgrounds. But I could care less of they are black, white, red, purple or rainbow-colored, because that doesn't define who they are. Their actions define them.

 

If Bob joins a Church in an predominately Irish neighborhood whose members have joined together to help fellow Irish immigrants find work, educational opportunities, a positive social life, a connection with his Irish roots, and ask him in return to give back to that community, are they racist? How is that a bad thing?

[southsider2k5]

If Bob joins a Church in an predominately Irish neighborhood whose members have joined together to help fellow Irish immigrants find work, educational opportunities, a positive social life, a connection with his Irish roots, and ask him in return to give back to that community, are they racist? How is that a bad thing?

 

What about the non-Irish poor people who can't find work because the Irish are keeping all of the jobs between their own group?

[Texsox]

Let me try this way.

 

A Martian looks around his neighborhood and thinks, Martians here are not getting educated, abandoning their families, falling victim to drugs and alcohol, and in general destroying themselves and those around them. I want to help them. I want to gather up successful Martians and have them work with these kids so they can see that Martians can be successful, they can have strong families, they can get an education.

 

So he hangs out a sign, stating what he wants to do for Martians.

 

But then people come by and say, you have to help everyone not just Martians. Instead of just helping the 10,000 Martians that live here, you need to help the 2,000,000 that live here of all stripes.

 

 

 

What about the non-Irish poor people who can't find work because the Irish are keeping all of the jobs between their own group?

As long as all labor laws are followed, I don't see the problem. Have you ever asked friends and relatives to let you know about openings? Isn't that what networking is all about?

[southsider2k5]

As long as all labor laws are followed, I don't see the problem. Have you ever asked friends and relatives to let you know about openings? Isn't that what networking is all about?

So if you and a real Texan applied to be life guard at South Padre Island, and despite having equal credentials to that Texan, you would have no problem with the Texan getting the job, simply because you were born in Illinois?

[Texsox]

So if you and a real Texan applied to be life guard at South Padre Island, and despite having equal credentials to that Texan, you would have no problem with the Texan getting the job, simply because you were born in Illinois?

 

Of course I would have a problem with that. But we are talking about two things. Mine is telling someone about the opening and how to apply.That you need to go to the Baywatch School of Lifeguarding, here's where to apply for scholarships. You need to be First Aid certified, here is the address and schedule for First Aid Classes at the Red Cross. You need to be at the Qualifying swim on February 14 and pass this test. It would also be helpful if you spoke better English, we have classes every Wednesday before services.

 

In other words, putting people in a position to be successful.

[NorthSideSox72]

Of course I would have a problem with that. But we are talking about two things. Mine is telling someone about the opening and how to apply.That you need to go to the Baywatch School of Lifeguarding, here's where to apply for scholarships. You need to be First Aid certified, here is the address and schedule for First Aid Classes at the Red Cross. You need to be at the Qualifying swim on February 14 and pass this test. It would also be helpful if you spoke better English, we have classes every Wednesday before services.

 

In other words, putting people in a position to be successful.

Which is fine, but I think that if you do that only for a specific race or people, you are ultimately making things worse for everyone. Worse for everyone not of that race, and worse for that race later due to a continued artificial barrier.

[Texsox]

Which is fine, but I think that if you do that only for a specific race or people, you are ultimately making things worse for everyone. Worse for everyone not of that race, and worse for that race later due to a continued artificial barrier.

 

I don't see how that is doable. There are limited resources in every group. Why should Baptist be criticized for offering programs strictly for their members? Why shouldn't a Church be allowed to help Polish speakers learn English and not French, German, and Spanish?

 

If you and I ban together to take blind kids backpacking, why should we be expected to open it up to sighted? (Hey, that actually sounds like a great idea.)

 

Again, I agree in the extreme it is a bad thing. But everything is like that.

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't see how that is doable. There are limited resources in every group. Why should Baptist be criticized for offering programs strictly for their members? Why shouldn't a Church be allowed to help Polish speakers learn English and not French, German, and Spanish?

 

If you and I ban together to take blind kids backpacking, why should we be expected to open it up to sighted? (Hey, that actually sounds like a great idea.)

 

Again, I agree in the extreme it is a bad thing. But everything is like that.

A church for Baptists is just that, by nature, and that is their service base. But most churches allow people of other religions to attend as well, yes?

 

There is also a big difference between blindness and race. Someone who is blind requires certain resources and tools to do certain things. No race needs such things.

 

Backpacking for the blind? Hm. Might be kind of problematic. You'd need to be escorting them nearly everywhere they go. Novel thought, though.

[Texsox]

A church for Baptists is just that, by nature, and that is their service base. But most churches allow people of other religions to attend as well, yes?

 

There is also a big difference between blindness and race. Someone who is blind requires certain resources and tools to do certain things. No race needs such things.

 

Backpacking for the blind? Hm. Might be kind of problematic. You'd need to be escorting them nearly everywhere they go. Novel thought, though.

 

The escorting would depend on the terrain and the trail conditions.

 

Once you are attending, you are a member, aren't you? While the needs are similar for Polish and Italian immigrants, aren't there differences and advantages of being with Poles and Italians? If a Church is offering Polish to English lessons, why fault them for not serving Italians? Isn't there a great motivation when someone stands up and says, I came here from Italy, just like you. I spoke only Italian, just like you. I received an education, just like you can. I found a job, just like you can. I was exactly like you, became successful, and you can to.

 

Churches are made up of dozens to hundreds of families and largely reflect the town/city/neighborhood they are in. To try and racially balance every Church is impossible.

[NorthSideSox72]

The escorting would depend on the terrain and the trail conditions.

 

Once you are attending, you are a member, aren't you? While the needs are similar for Polish and Italian immigrants, aren't there differences and advantages of being with Poles and Italians? If a Church is offering Polish to English lessons, why fault them for not serving Italians? Isn't there a great motivation when someone stands up and says, I came here from Italy, just like you. I spoke only Italian, just like you. I received an education, just like you can. I found a job, just like you can. I was exactly like you, became successful, and you can to.

 

Churches are made up of dozens to hundreds of families and largely reflect the town/city/neighborhood they are in. To try and racially balance every Church is impossible.

Who is trying to racially balance a church? I'm saying I could care less if I'm the only white guy there, or they are all white. It really makes no difference. That's the way I think it should be. If happenstance dictates some particular mix, then so be it.

[Texsox]

Who is trying to racially balance a church? I'm saying I could care less if I'm the only white guy there, or they are all white. It really makes no difference. That's the way I think it should be. If happenstance dictates some particular mix, then so be it.

 

I misunderstood. Sorry.

[Balta1701]

Here's a fairly unexpected and decidedly positive IMO bit of Obamania; after that little flap with the Clintons last week, Obama is publicly repudiating the little flap, saying that his staff got into it with the Clinton campaign and saying that their actions were against his stated marching orders to avoid getting negative.

Obama repudiated the hardball tactics of his own staff. And he made it seem he was clueless about a major story dealing with his own campaign.

In a front page New York Times interview published Friday, Obama suggested that his marching orders to stay on the high road were ignored, quite a public flogging.

 

Obama, in his two-week old campaign, is offering himself as the antidote to a cynicism he asserts is poisoning U.S. politics. One of Obama's stump lines goes something like this: His rival in the Democratic primary "is not other candidates," he says, "it's cynicism."

 

Gibbs and Wolfson mixing it up is campaign business as usual. The back-and-forth, however, exposed Obama to a risk -- being called a hypocrite.

 

Obama decided not to handle matters internally, however.

 

"I told my staff that I don't want us to be a party to these kinds of distractions because I want to make sure that we're spending time talking about issues," Obama told the paper. He added, "My preference goinard is that we have to be careful not to slip into the game as it is customarily played."

 

Obama, who is rarely without a cell phone or BlackBerry, seemed curiously removed from a major political story dealing with his campaign.

 

He told the Times the clash erupted as he was flying back to Chicago from Los Angeles on a red eye. Then, he was busy getting a haircut and taking his kids to school.

 

Later that day, he was back in a plane, presumably with aides who could have delivered the news.

 

Folks may well have been ready to move on by the end of the week. But Obama, in a baffling strategy, made a surprising call -- to the New York Times.

I can't recall the last time I saw a candidate publically take his staff to task for going negative. I think that's a positive thing to see as well.

[Middle Buffalo]

1. Commitment to God

2. Commitment to the White Community

3. Commitment to the White Family

4. Dedication to the Pursuit of Education

5. Dedication to the Pursuit of Excellence

6. Adherence to the White Work Ethic

7. Commitment to Self-Discipline and Self-Respect

8. Disavowal of the Pursuit of “Middleclassness”

9. Pledge to make the fruits of all developing and acquired skills available to the White Community

10. Pledge to Allocate Regularly, a Portion of Personal Resources for Strengthening and Supporting White Institutions

11. Pledge allegiance to all White leadership who espouse and embrace the White Value System

12. Personal commitment to embracement of the White Value System

 

Your point is well taken, and I can't say I disagree with you, but I like when someone like Obama basically says that he and black people are responsible for their community. He's not saying that he wants reparations or anything similar. This church is saying, "This is the state of our community, and this is how we will change it. We will hold ourselves responsible for the future successes and failures of black people." Maybe I'm misinterpreting the 12 points of emphasis, but that's what they say to me.

[BigSqwert]

From MSNBC.com:

 

Nobody's laughing

Some Jackie Mason watchers are having déjà vu all over again.

 

In 1989, the comedian/political pundit — who was working with Rudy Giuliani’s mayoral campaign — caused a major firestorm when he called New York City African-American then-mayoral candidate David Dinkins “a fancy schvartzer with a mustache.” (The word “schvartzer” is derogatory Yiddish for a black person.)

 

Mason compounded the problem when he said, “There is a sick Jewish problem of voting for a black man no matter how unfit he is for the job.”

 

Giuliani booted Mason from his campaign, although, according to a biography on his homepage, Mason currently writes for several conservative and Jewish news organizations.

 

So some were startled to see a video on YouTube in which Mason says that Illinois senator Barack Obama is being taken seriously as a presidential candidate “just because he’s black.” Mason goes on to say that instead of running for president, Obama should become a waiter or a doorman.

 

“Everybody feels guilty about the blacks never getting a chance at the presidency,” Mason said, “They already became mayors, they already became governors and senators and now the next step is the presidency.”

 

Some find Obama appealing, Mason says, because he’s “not threatening,” he’s soft-spoken and tall, and he has a nice haircut.

 

Then, addressing Obama, Mason says: “Maybe you should take a test for something that you can do. Maybe you should be the head waiter in a restaurant since you never said an intelligent thing in your life. . . . Maybe you should be a doorman.”

 

Article

[southsider2k5]

It seems like everybody is talking about Barack.

 

http://www.suntimes.com/news/elections/294...obama13.article

 

Sharpton tears into Obama

'Why shouldn't the black community ask questions?'

 

March 13, 2007

Activist Al Sharpton lit into presidential candidate Barack Obama on Monday, suggesting Obama shouldn't take blacks' support for granted.

"Why shouldn't the black community ask questions? Are we now being told, 'You all just shut up?'" Sharpton told a TV reporter from a New York CBS station.

 

"I'm not going to be cajoled or intimidated by any candidate," said Sharpton, a New Yorker who ran for president in 2004.

 

Sharpton went on to criticize Obama on other issues, including his relationship with Sen. Joe Lieberman, who's controversial within the Democratic Party.

 

"Senator Obama and I agree that the war is wrong, but then I want to know why he went to Connecticut and helped Lieberman, the biggest supporter of the war," Sharpton told TV.

 

Obama's camp wouldn't answer the charges. The TV report said that Sharpton was responding to a published story claiming he was undermining Obama.

 

The New York Post wrote that Sharpton, who has vied with Jesse Jackson to lead black Americans, is "terrified of being overshadowed by someone of Obama's class and character."

 

"It's driving Al crazy that Obama is as impressive and popular as he is, and he's not happy about it," a black Democratic activist was quoted as saying.

 

A source reportedly close to Sharpton also said the New Yorker had wanted to run for president again in 2008, and Obama's White House bid foiled him, according to the Post.

[BigSqwert]

Al seems a bit jealous if you ask me.

[Rex Kickass]

IMO: Sharpton's asking legitimate questions. There are a lot of people, myself included, that we're getting style over substance with Obama - that it's all flash and no flame.

[kapkomet]

I think many of us have been saying that from the get go with Obamamania! (sic)