whitesoxfan99 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 4, 2007 -> 11:12 PM) How many did they win because he played great? Not many Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Feb 4, 2007 -> 11:16 PM) The one big question is, can he really improve on being 5'11"-6'0" and incredibly imobile with virtually no ability to escape the rush and frequent occasions of rushed throws brought on by panic. I really don't know and at this point I don't think so. Can you name another QB to have great success in the NFL who also had these same characteristics? well hes 6'1". Not sure where you got that estimate. And there have been plenty of QB's with those characteristics in their first full season. In fact there was one who was pretty much counted out as a has been lat year, only to re-surface in New Orleans and play pretty good. But hey, height is everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 This game was shockingly similar to the Ohio St./Florida game. If the Colts would have scored a TD instead of kicking a FG on a few of those possessions, then the score would have been in the same range. I still question why people thought the Colts were the best match-up for the Bears. They were the one team who I didn't want to face, as Manning is the best QB by far. Ron Turner should be ashamed of his play calling tonight. Nothing like playing not to lose when YOU'RE LOSING! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 4, 2007 -> 11:02 PM) Carr's first full season playing in the league: 62.8 QB rating 9 TD 15 INT Grossman: 73.9 23TD 20INT Nah, Ill take Rex Twist stats much? Last time I checked, Grossman was drafted a year after Carr. First full year in the league, JFC, he's gotten injured! Who cares how many full years he's had in the league anyways? He's been in the league 4 years, opposed to Carr's 5. And, other than like the first 10 games of his career, Grossman's had every opportunity to start, and has gotten injured every year except this year. You can't just discount that dude. Honestly, I see that as more of a testament to Carr than it is to Grossman, especially considering he set an NFL record for times sacked his rookie year. Also, Carr has never had a good O-Line, he's had 1 good running back (who just so happened to be injury prone), and he's had all of like 2 weapons to throw to at any point in his career (Johnson and Moulds). Grossman had a good O-Line this year, he had 2 good running backs, and he had a plethora of options all over the receiving corps (Moose, Berrian, Davis/Bradley, along with Clark too), and he was still below average. Basically, if Carr doesn't have to be the man - and he won't in Chicago - I think he'd be a very solid option at QB, and he could be very good, perhaps good enough to put up a QB rating in the 90s. If he can play a full season with a garbage O-Line and mediocre receivers, and still only throw 12 picks, I'd be curious to see how he could do in a system where he had an O-Line and ton of guys to help him otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Feb 4, 2007 -> 11:18 PM) This game was shockingly similar to the Ohio St./Florida game. If the Colts would have scored a TD instead of kicking a FG on a few of those possessions, then the score would have been in the same range. I still question why people thought the Colts were the best match-up for the Bears. They were the one team who I didn't want to face, as Manning is the best QB by far. Ron Turner should be ashamed of his play calling tonight. Nothing like playing not to lose when YOU'RE LOSING! Teams who can complete the short pass have killed the Bears all season. Look what AZ did to us with virtually the same game plan. It should have been obvious that if we couldnt get pressure this would happen. Either way this team shoudl contend for the NFC next year. I expect an improvement on offense from this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 4, 2007 -> 11:17 PM) well hes 6'1". Not sure where you got that estimate. And there have been plenty of QB's with those characteristics in their first full season. In fact there was one who was pretty much counted out as a has been lat year, only to re-surface in New Orleans and play pretty good. But hey, height is everything. Well the 2 times I've met Rex in person we stood eye to eye and I'm about 6 feet tall, others such as Lawrence Holmes who spends a lot of time around Rex have stated that he is around 5'11"-6'0", it wouldn't be the first time an athlete was actually another height than he was listed. Drew Brees has something Rex doesn't, maneuverability/mobility and the ability to throw on the run with great accuracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenryan Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Rex Grossman is never going to be any better than what he is now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Jesus. Well good night everyone, I can see the negativity cannot be avoided as the doomsdayers have come out to play. At least its one day where KW can avoid the harsh criticism. Go Bears!! Cant wait for next season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 5, 2007 -> 05:20 AM) Teams who can complete the short pass have killed the Bears all season. Look what AZ did to us with virtually the same game plan. It should have been obvious that if we couldnt get pressure this would happen. Either way this team shoudl contend for the NFC next year. I expect an improvement on offense from this year. Exactly, the people I was watching the game with kept saying "why aren't they getting any pressure". The Colts offense is just that damn good and efficient. Cedric Benson had to have one of the worst individual games in history. A huge, momentum switching turnover, and then a game-ending injury. The debate about who to keep at RB is going to be interesting this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Feb 4, 2007 -> 11:19 PM) BTW, anyone check on WHarris1? I haven't seen any activity from him since they lost..... I'm pretty sure he buried a steak knife into the side of his neck around the time of the second Rex INT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Feb 5, 2007 -> 05:08 AM) I don't put ANY blame on the D tonight. Any D is going to give up yards to the Colts, thats obvious. However, when your Offense can't get off the field fast enough, you are going to get warn down. 3 and outs. 3 and outs. 3 and outs. No defense should be on the field that long. I'm sorry, Tony, but the defense is as much to blame as the offense. For one, the defensive line got man-handled from the instant they were on the field. I can't believe how many times I saw a Bear defensive lineman pushed five yards back by a Colt lineman. The Manning mistake on the Colts' first TD pass is inexcusable. You CAN'T do that in any game, much less the SuperBowl. Terrible time to have a mental mistake. I'm not calling for his head, I understand he's a rookie, but that was really bad. The linebacking core wasn't very good, either. Briggs played okay, but Hillenmyer and Urlacher missed their fair share of tackles. Kudos to Tillman and Vasher, who I thought contained Wayne and Harrison reasonably well. I do agree with your general point that we pissed away that game, and I think a lot of that starts with the gameplans from our coordinators. Defensively, we rarely blitzed and thought that we could get pressure with our front four, despite the fact that they were getting owned from the very beginning. Offensively, there's a lot of subtle things about Turner that bug me. Lack of a commitment to the run game. Wierd types of pass plays. Lack of the shotgun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 By the way.....D. Clark couldn't catch a ball thrown by Charlie Hough right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Feb 4, 2007 -> 11:23 PM) Lack of the shotgun. IIRC, Grossman doesn't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Feb 5, 2007 -> 05:22 AM) A huge, momentum switching turnover, and then a game-ending injury. The debate about who to keep at RB is going to be interesting this offseason. Based on one game? I'd love to see them split 15 carries per game, but I don't think they can coexist like that. Too much ego on both sides (or too much on one side, not sure which...), and it's a shame, because having two good backs is arguably better than one great one (unless that one is LT or LJ). I do agree with you about the Benson turnover, I'm surprised nobody has talked about it. 14-6 Bears, ball at midfield, Bears even with a field goal had a chance to get up 17-6 early, or, at the very worst, punt the ball deep in Colts territory. Worst possible time for a turnover there. One more thing on the David Carr front. If you bring him in, you're bringing in another question mark. Could he be good? I guess it could be argued either way. But you're staking a lot on him. I don't know which way the Bears should go. Maybe the right thing to do is ride it out with Rex; this was his first FULL year, and while he wasn't great, there have been worse years from guys in their first (full) season. Maybe the right thing to do is hitch your wagon to another QB ala Carr or Leftwich, although Leftwich would look to be the better choice there. QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Feb 5, 2007 -> 05:24 AM) IIRC, Grossman doesn't like it. Really? Isn't that pretty much all he did at Florida, when he was, you know, one of the best QBs at his level? (I'm not directing that question at you, it's more a rhetorical thing.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3E8 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 "It's no big deal for me either way," Grossman said. "I'm kind of fascinated with everyone's fascination with the shotgun, like it's a play in itself. It's not. It's just a way to get the ball in my hands." Grossman has had plenty of experience with the shotgun -- just not with the Bears. But it's safe to say he's not intimidated with this particular way of getting the ball into his hands. As a redshirt freshman making his first start for Florida in 2002, in a third-and-goal situation during a home game against LSU, a shotgun snap sailed over his head. Instead of catching up to the ball and falling on it for a loss, Grossman scooped it up, turned and fired a nine-yard touchdown pass to Jabar Gaffney. After the game, a Florida win, Gators coach Steve Spurrier called the play "one of the all- time greatest" in the history of football at The Swamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Rex is a choke job and it showed tonight..he looked like a video game diving backwards...dammit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 QUOTE(3E8 @ Feb 4, 2007 -> 11:34 PM) "It's no big deal for me either way," Grossman said. "I'm kind of fascinated with everyone's fascination with the shotgun, like it's a play in itself. It's not. It's just a way to get the ball in my hands." Grossman has had plenty of experience with the shotgun -- just not with the Bears. But it's safe to say he's not intimidated with this particular way of getting the ball into his hands. As a redshirt freshman making his first start for Florida in 2002, in a third-and-goal situation during a home game against LSU, a shotgun snap sailed over his head. Instead of catching up to the ball and falling on it for a loss, Grossman scooped it up, turned and fired a nine-yard touchdown pass to Jabar Gaffney. After the game, a Florida win, Gators coach Steve Spurrier called the play "one of the all- time greatest" in the history of football at The Swamp. I found the same thing, I thought I remembered reading that as one of the excuses given for not using the shotgun. Guess not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Most of all we were outcoached tonight.No halftime adjustments in a game where there were no surprises thrown at them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 We threw surprises, they were just intercepted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Feb 4, 2007 -> 11:24 PM) IIRC, Grossman doesn't like it. The thing is, the Bears haven't used the shotgun in about six years. With all the QBs we've had, I can't believe they have all hated it. I don't see why Rex would hate it as he used it all the time in college, plus the fact he is small. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shipps Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 QUOTE(Jimbo @ Feb 4, 2007 -> 11:45 PM) We threw surprises, they were just intercepted. No ,i mean the Bears didnt have any surprises thrown at them and they still werent able to adjust even after they seen what they were doing on defense wasnt working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 QUOTE(whitesoxfan99 @ Feb 4, 2007 -> 11:41 PM) I found the same thing, I thought I remembered reading that as one of the excuses given for not using the shotgun. Guess not I'm pretty sure it's just the way Ron Turner runs his offense, he doesn't like running the shotgun. Kreutz and Grossman have both said recently that they don't mind using it so I suppose it comes down to Turner and his system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo's Drinker Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 QUOTE(shipps @ Feb 4, 2007 -> 11:46 PM) No ,i mean the Bears didnt have any surprises thrown at them and they still werent able to adjust even after they seen what they were doing on defense wasnt working. I know what you mean...we looked like f'in donkey crud, way too predictable and exposed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Feb 4, 2007 -> 11:23 PM) I'm sorry, Tony, but the defense is as much to blame as the offense. For one, the defensive line got man-handled from the instant they were on the field. I can't believe how many times I saw a Bear defensive lineman pushed five yards back by a Colt lineman. The Manning mistake on the Colts' first TD pass is inexcusable. You CAN'T do that in any game, much less the SuperBowl. Terrible time to have a mental mistake. I'm not calling for his head, I understand he's a rookie, but that was really bad. The linebacking core wasn't very good, either. Briggs played okay, but Hillenmyer and Urlacher missed their fair share of tackles. Kudos to Tillman and Vasher, who I thought contained Wayne and Harrison reasonably well. I do agree with your general point that we pissed away that game, and I think a lot of that starts with the gameplans from our coordinators. Defensively, we rarely blitzed and thought that we could get pressure with our front four, despite the fact that they were getting owned from the very beginning. Offensively, there's a lot of subtle things about Turner that bug me. Lack of a commitment to the run game. Wierd types of pass plays. Lack of the shotgun. I pretty much agree with everything here Keith. BTW, I got sick of Turner's crap down at U of I, and though he makes for a better OC than a college head coach, i still don't like him. Also, the Hayden INT TD was really ironic for any of us Illini/Bears fans. It made it even that more ridiculous. Edited February 5, 2007 by IlliniKrush Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackie hayes Posted February 5, 2007 Share Posted February 5, 2007 Am I the only one who thinks Rhodes got jobbed on the mvp? Very sad day -- the Bears could have won this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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