BEARS in THE SUPERBOWL!

[Kalapse]

I just read through real fast so I may have missed it but another negative...reading the field, period. It takes him an incredibly long time to make all his progressions (if he even makes them). Even though he did check down a few times yesterday it was way to late as his check down receiver was hit immediately.

 

He doesn't make the right throw a lot of the time, and has lots of trouble checking down. He is incapable of taking what the defense is giving.

Yes, great call he waits forever to check down by the time he gets through all his progressions and checks down the halfback is already out in the flat with a linebacker right on him, giving him virtually no chance to pick up extra yards.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Yeah that's bulls***, after giving him the benefit of the doubt for a full 19 game season and backing him the whole way I'm putting his tools on the table, taking a look at his body of work and I'm not liking what I'm seeing, I'm really starting to doubt whether Rex can be a franchise QB or not. I'm leaning toward not.

 

Positives:

 

- He throws a great ball, the ball often comes out of his hand with explosion, great velocity and a tight spiral, he throws an incredibly catchable ball.

- He has a a canon, enough said he can bomb the damn ball.

- He does have moments of incredible accuracy on the deep ball, he's hit Berrian for a few of the best passes I've ever seen, he is capable of hitting his man in stride.

- He is fairly accurate throwing to the post and seam routes when he doesn't have someone in his face, he's especially proficient at hitting the tightend/slot receiver down the seam but that's only when he has some time to work and a clear view of the receiver

- He inspires confidence from his teammates and coaches, they seem to love the guy and his teammates seem to have a lot of confidence in his abilities, judging by the playcalling the Super Bowl however I wonder if the coaching staff trusts him in the big game, I'm guessing not.

- He's a pretty tough guy, when he is taking a beating he tends to get back up and is ready to take some more

- He's incredibly ballsy, good and bad

 

Negatives:

 

- He's short, 5'11"-6'0" he's one of the shortest starting QBs in the NFL, I believe Vick is the only one who is shorter

- He's slow as s***, the guy can't run at all

- Can not throw on the run with any accuracy

- He has very small hands

- He is terrible at identifying the rush and avoiding the blitz, on top of his lack of speed he has a terrible pocket presence and no scrambling ability.

- He's prone to major lapses in judgment such as tossing the ball up in the air 3-5 times a game often leading to picks.

- When the pocket collapses he tends to panic which leads to terrible passes and fumbles. He needs to calm the f*** down when the defense gets in the backfield.

- He has trouble securing the ball, this leads to even more turnovers, when taking a sack he needs to just wrap up the ball and go down instead of allowing it to come out as he often does.

- When he gets jittery in the pocket he tends to release the ball at odd angles and takes a lot of velocity off his passes leading to wounded ducks and lob passes.

 

How many QBs can you think of had these shortcomings but have still succeeded at the NFL level?

 

Do those positives outweigh the negatives? Can he over come his short comings and become one of the first short, slow QBs of all time to actually find success in the NFL? I'm starting to think he can't.

 

Guiding a team to the SB in his first full year as the starter doesn't qualify as success? Or do you mean sustained success?

[Kalapse]

Guiding a team to the SB in his first full year as the starter doesn't qualify as success? Or do you mean sustained success?

Sustained personal success.

[SoxFan1]

Sustained personal success.

So your disputing this based on 1 full season of work in which his team went to the Super Bowl?

[witesoxfan]

Guiding a team to the SB in his first full year as the starter doesn't qualify as success? Or do you mean sustained success?

 

I don't know if he really guided the team nearly as much as the defense and running game did.

 

 

And, for s***s and giggles, let's compare Rex Grossman (R1, 22, 2003) to JP Losman (R1, 22, 2004), both in their first full years as starters....so one would expect them to be rougly the same caliber QB.

 

Rex - 3193 yards, 54.2% (262/480), 23/20 TD/INT, 72.3 rating, 21 sacks, 7 fumbles, 5 lost

JP - 3051 yards, 62.5% (268/429), 19/14 TD/INT, 84.9 rating, 47 sacks, 13 fumbles, 7 lost

 

And I think we can agree that Rex had a superior offensive line, and we can also probably agree that Losman played in not only a much more difficult division, but dealt with a more difficult conference and schedule.

 

It's funny, because JP was considered to be a bust and a horrible pick by a few people on here before the season.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I don't know if he really guided the team nearly as much as the defense and running game did.

And, for s***s and giggles, let's compare Rex Grossman (R1, 22, 2003) to JP Losman (R1, 22, 2004), both in their first full years as starters....so one would expect them to be rougly the same caliber QB.

 

Rex - 3193 yards, 54.2% (262/480), 23/20 TD/INT, 72.3 rating, 21 sacks, 7 fumbles, 5 lost

JP - 3051 yards, 62.5% (268/429), 19/14 TD/INT, 84.9 rating, 47 sacks, 13 fumbles, 7 lost

 

And I think we can agree that Rex had a superior offensive line, and we can also probably agree that Losman played in not only a much more difficult division, but dealt with a more difficult conference and schedule.

 

It's funny, because JP was considered to be a bust and a horrible pick by a few people on here before the season.

 

Well, by my estimation, Rex had 4 REALLY bad games this past year (I don't count the meaningless last game against the Packers). He had more games with a 100 passer rating or better than any other QB in football. In the first two playoff games, when they absolutely needed him to make a play, he did. So, yes, I give Rex credit for getting us there. This wasn't like Trent Dilfer in 2000. I realize that in the big bad world of sports, you're only as good as your last game. And Rex played like s*** in his last game. But I choose to look at the body of work over one game, even a game as big as the SB.

Edited February 6, 2007 by Jordan4life_2007

[Kalapse]

So your disputing this based on 1 full season of work in which his team went to the Super Bowl?

Yes, what's so hard to understand? Look at his positives, look at his negatives I don't see how he can even overcome some of the deficiencies in his game. If he is able to get past these, he'll be the first in a long time and the only one in the NFL to do so. The odds aren't exactly in his favor.

 

Just because someone is the starting QB for a Super Bowl team doesn't mean he lead them their, just ask Tony Eason.

 

Well, by my estimation, Rex had 4 REALLY bad games this past year (I don't count the meaningless last game against the Packers). He had more games with a 100 passer rating or better than any other QB in football. In the first two playoff games, when they absolutely needed him to make a play, he did. So, yes, I give Rex credit for getting us there. This wasn't like Trent Dilfer in 2000. I realize that in the big bad world of sports, you're only as good as your last game. And Rex played like s*** in his last game. But I choose to look at the body of work over one game, even a game as big as the SB.

I'll say one thing, they certainly didn't get their in spite of Rex but I wouldn't say he lead them their. The run game and defense played larger roles in the team's success than Rex did.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Yes, what's so hard to understand? Look at his positives, look at his negatives I don't see how he can even overcome some of the deficiencies in his game. If he is able to get past these, he'll be the first in a long time and the only one in the NFL to do so. The odds aren't exactly in his favor.

 

Just because someone is the starting QB for a Super Bowl team doesn't mean he lead them their, just ask Tony Eason.

I'll say one thing, they certainly didn't get their in spite of Rex but I wouldn't say he lead them their. The run game and defense played larger roles in the team's success than Rex did.

 

Well, if you remember, the running game was pretty s***ty for the first 6 weeks or so. We still won all those games because Rex was playing out of his mind (not including the Arizona game). I agree about the defense, well, atleast when Tommie Harris and Mike Brown were healthy. The D was never the same after we lost those two. Call me a Rex jocker if you want, but I believe all the crap he's gone through this last year will make him a much, much, much better player next year and beyond.

[Kalapse]

Well, if you remember, the running game was pretty s***ty for the first 6 weeks or so. We still won all those games because Rex was playing out of his mind (not including the Arizona game). I agree about the defense, well, atleast when Tommie Harris and Mike Brown were healthy. The D was never the same after we lost those two. Call me a Rex jocker if you want, but I believe all the crap he's gone through this last year will make him a much, much, much better player next year and beyond.

Can you think of ANY other QB in the past 30 years who found above average personal success sustained over the course of a career despite having the same physical limitations as Rex Grossman? There's no one in football right now and I can't think of any others.

[SoxFan1]

I'll say one thing, they certainly didn't get their in spite of Rex but I wouldn't say he lead them their. The run game and defense played larger roles in the team's success than Rex did.

So what more do you want from him? He will never be Peyton Manning. Get that through your head right now. Height means nothing. Bring up all the stats you want, but that is not the reason he hasn't succeded. Brees is the same height as Grossman, it's been mentioned many times. Frank Tarkenton and Joe Theismann were both 6 feet tall or under. Vick is 6 feet as well.

 

I'm tired of hearing all this BS about Grossman. He's going to make mistakes. It's his 1st full year as a starter. He will only get better with experience. Like mentioned, 7 games over 100 passer rating is pretty phenomenal. In the first 3rd of the season, he was a leading MVP candidate. We know he has the ability.

 

But no, let's just dismiss him after one season, a season in which his team made the Super Bowl. GMAB. We're so critical of him that we want him to fail, just so we could give him some more s***.

Edited February 6, 2007 by SoxFan1

[WHarris1]

I'm tired of hearing all this BS about Grossman. He's going to make mistakes. It's his 1st full year as a starter. He will only get better with experience.

Why the lack of great strides as the season went on?

[Kalapse]

It didn't seem like the coaching staff had much faith in him yesterday with the ridiculously conservative stripped down offense they were running for the entire game including that final defeatist drive they had to end the game. Not to mention Jerry Angelo refusing to call Rex a franchise QB despite having called him one many times in the past.

[SoxFan1]

Why the lack of great strides as the season went on?

Because more and more pressure was accumlated and put squarely on his shoulders. He's still young. Look how long it took Manning to finally win one. Marino never one. There have been countless QB's who never made it to the Super Bowl, Rex did it in his 1st full season.

 

And for those who say we get there in SPITE of Rex, I advise you to rewatch the Saints game.

[Kalapse]

So what more do you want from him? He will never be Peyton Manning. Get that through your head right now. Height means nothing. Bring up all the stats you want, but that is not the reason he hasn't succeded. Brees is the same height as Grossman, it's been mentioned many times. Frank Tarkenton and Joe Theismann were both 6 feet tall or under. Vick is 6 feet as well.

It's not just height, it's mobility Vick is one of the fastest players in the game and has insane escapability and Brees has above average mobility and pocket presence as well as the ability to throw on the run.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Can you think of ANY other QB in the past 30 years who found above average personal success sustained over the course of a career despite having the same physical limitations as Rex Grossman? There's no one in football right now and I can't think of any others.

 

Not off the top of my head. I'm sure I could if I looked. Look, I'm not looking for Peyton Manning, Dan Marino or Joe Montana. The most realistic things he can improve on that would make him better is learning how to consistently handle pressure, especially up the middle, and knowing when to attack and when to take what the d gives you. And although he's slow overall, I think he should be better as far as moving around in the pocket. I don't know if he's scared to get hurt again or what. But he needs to get over that.

[SoxFan1]

It didn't seem like the coaching staff had much faith in him yesterday with the ridiculously conservative stripped down offense they were running for the entire game including that final defeatist drive they had to end the game. Not to mention Jerry Angelo refusing to call Rex a franchise QB despite having called him one many times in the past.

How would Angelo sound saying Grossman is a franchise QB after we just lost the Super Bowl, and knowing the media would be all over Rex? And when Benson went down, the idea of running all over the Colts got shot to hell.

[Kalapse]

Not off the top of my head. I'm sure I could if I looked. Look, I'm not looking for Peyton Manning, Dan Marino or Joe Montana. The most realistic things he can improve on that would make him better is learning how to consistently handle pressure, especially up the middle, and knowing when to attack and when to take what the d gives you. And although he's slow overall, I think he should be better as far as moving around in the pocket. I don't know if he's scared to get hurt again or what. But he needs to get over that.

Ok, if he is able to get past these things then yes he will be pretty good however he hasn't improved on any of them especially his pocket presence, he still refuses to step up and by his 27th NFL game I kind of expect to see him show some success in these areas.

[SoxFan1]

It's not just height, it's mobility Vick is one of the fastest players in the game and has insane escapability and Brees has above average mobility and pocket presence as well as the ability to throw on the run.

And you don't feel Rex can improve upon those at the age of 26?

[Kalapse]

How would Angelo sound saying Grossman is a franchise QB after we just lost the Super Bowl, and knowing the media would be all over Rex? And when Benson went down, the idea of running all over the Colts got shot to hell.

It was during a press conference following the win over the Saints. You know the game Grossman was pretty good in.

[WHarris1]

And when Benson went down, the idea of running all over the Colts got shot to hell.

And the Colts having approx. 14 men in the box didn't help said idea.

 

And you don't feel Rex can improve upon those at the age of 26?

No, he can't improve his mobility.

[SoxFan1]

Ok, if he is able to get past these things then yes he will be pretty good however he hasn't improved on any of them especially his pocket presence, he still refuses to step up and by his 27th NFL game I kind of expect to see him show some success in these areas.

27th game means nothing. As far as I am concerned, everything past 2005 should be dismissed. He was healthy for about 6 games in his 1st 2 years.

 

It was during a press conference following the win over the Saints. You know the game Grossman was pretty good in.

I don't recall that one.

[WHarris1]

And I still need an explanation on the fumbles.

 

How can a QB be so careless in the f***ing Super Bowl? Does that not tell you something about a player.

[SoxFan1]

No, he can't improve his mobility.

Why not? Peyton Manning certainly did. He was a 100% pocket passer when he came into the NFL. How many plays did he make out of the pocket last night. Especially the throw across his body to Dallas Clark.

[witesoxfan]

And I still need an explanation on the fumbles.

 

How can a QB be so careless in the f***ing Super Bowl? Does that not tell you something about a player.

 

i personally liked the dives for -9 yards on successive plays

[Kalapse]

And you don't feel Rex can improve upon those at the age of 26?

27 games in and he hasn't shown any improvement on anything I listed in that post and he'll be 27 the next time he takes the field.