If the team is set

[Harry Chappas]

With Spring training right around the corner I believe it is safe to assume the 40 man roster is set and we are going into the fight with what we have.

 

I have to admit that I reserved all judgement this offseason to the idea of wait and see how it all turns out come February.

 

I now look at the offseason and say............I just don't know what to expect.

 

The first thing I heard in November was that Guillen wanted six guys in the bulllpen that could be closers. Well he has them. Maybe not all-star closers but guys that can get the job done with their stuff.

 

I was expecting a move that improved this team and I do not see it. This season will be predicated on players improving (Anderson, Uribe, Buerhle, Podsednik) on last season and hoping and praying the right choice is made with the fifth starter. I must admit both of these things concern me greatly.

 

The thing that ticks me off more than anything though is that the payroll is flat. 3M people came through the turnstyles and there is not a better product as a result of it. Other teams are spending and although maybe there is not value in the amount given, it still has to be given. If we are not going to pay and it appears we are not with Buerhle, Crede, Dye(?), who is going to play for this team.

 

If Fields replaces Crede, Sweeney replaces Dye and Danks replaces Buerhle, our payroll is going to drop by $20M. Can these guys do the job? We will not know until a year is almost gone. By that time my money is gone and the 3M fans could jump ship if they fail. I see the money point but we can not take our wallet and go home that is the stae of affairs of the MLB today.

[retro1983hat]

Who is going to play SS? Juan Uribe should not be our starting SS. He failed at the plate last year.

[GreatScott82]

I'm usually not the 'Peter Possitive' type. But you have to look at the good things KW did this offseason.

1) A minor move in exchanging one time dominate set-up man Neal Cotts to the Cubs for David Aardsma, a right handed power reliever with some great movement on his pitches. Cotts was either tired from being over-used in 2005 or he just simply lost his magic. KW figured Thorton replaced Cotts as the lefty-setup man.

2) His 1st major move was trading Garcia for Gavin Floyd and Gio Gonzales. I was a big Freddy fan, however there were no chance in hell he was going to come back after 2007. So he went out and traded for a couple guys who can contribute for a long time on this organization. (Don't get me wrong at the time i thought we should have gotten a whole bunch more back). From what I hear from Floyd he can be a Jon Garland type experiment. It may take awhile to see the best from him. Hell i'll take a 12-10 record out of my 5th starter like Jon G often did for us until he found his way.

Many many scouts across the league are in love with Gio Gonzales. In fact McCarthy compared him to a young Johan Santana and a future top of the rotation starter.

3) His next move was a no brainer and taking the club options on our 3 excellent players in Iguchi, Buerhle and Dye.

4) His next move was he signed MacDougal to a 3 year extension through 2009. Macdougal is an excellent reliever!!

5) His next move was kind of shocking, he re-signed Pods to a 1 year deal. It was shocking, but what he said was right..why would you spend 10 mill/ year on a guy like Juan Pierre who can do the same things Pods does?!? I know there are many Pods haters on here, but when he comes back in May finally HEALTHY! I expect him to ignite our offense.

6) This one was a bit shocking to us all. Trading away McCarthy, the guy who was suppose to replace Garcia in our rotation. I hated this move at first until i realized what we got in return was pretty damn good pitchers. We got back one of the best lefty-handed prospects and a future top of the line starter in Danks. We brought in a guy who will immediatley be plugged into our bullpen in Massett, a guy who can throw high 90's and can be a potential set-up man for Jenks.

 

After this move i was thinking..wow is KW that serious about 'not being able to re-sign Buerhle this offseason due to the inflated market?' I hope not... I say after 2008 you let guys like Vazquez and Contreras walk but after this year you NEED to re-sign Buerhle and while your at it, give Garland another 3 year extension. I want Garland and Buerhle our 1 & 2 for many many years. Than you still have Floyd and you can plug in a Broadway, Danks, Gio etc..and the rest is gravy.

 

7) His next move was he signed backup catcher Toby Hall via free agency. This was a possitive move..i think we all didn't want to see Alomar's face behind the plate anymore.

8) Next, he traded fan favorite and clubhouse favorite Ross Gload for Andruw Sisco. Sisco is monster with a lazer-rocket arm and will bolster our already 'Power Armed' bullpen even more. It is now officially solidified with Massett, Sisco, Aardsma, Macdougal, Thorton and Jenks.

9) His final move of the offseason came right after we all found out about Pods groin surgery. He signed Erstad to a 1 year deal as a 4th OF and a defensive back up 1B. This was a good move because w/ Pods out we will need a LF and someone capable of leading off and Estad fits the bill.

 

I give KW a solid B-. He didn't make the team worse, but he didn't drastically make the team better. There still are a lot of question marks. Like Brian Anderson out in CF for another full season. Will he improve or will he officially be a bust? Juan Uribe..will he play or will he be in jail half the season? Can Vazquez figure out his 6th inning chaos? Can Buerhle and Contreras rebound? Every team has question marks..i guess the beauty of baseball of is just going out there and playing... I think we will definitley compete with Minny and Detroit..but we are definitley not the favorites to win this thing this year. And that may just be a good thing.

[Damen]

Even though I like the way Kenny approached this offseason, any improvement in our teams chances this year will come from players rebounding from substandard years in '06, because we didn't do much to improve the team over the offseason. We addressed the backup C position and the bullpen (although the guys we acquired still have some large question marks). How we went through the offseason without improving LF, I don't know. That is far and away the biggest failure of the offseason.

[Melissa1334]

>great post.

i dont like the fact that he didnt aquire not 1 "difference" maker. he added a lot of good pieces but not one true differnece maker. we needed an upgrade in lf, cf and ss. when i heard ozzie say that cf is the most important position, blah blah blah, i was certain we would get a cf and it never happend.

[witesoxfan]

Who is going to play SS? Juan Uribe should not be our starting SS. He failed at the plate last year.

 

No, you just don't appreciate a SS that can hit the ball past the pitcher, and you apparently don't appreciate gold glove defense at SS as well.

[CanOfCorn]

And we know Kenny didn't try to...how?

 

Anyone think that Kenny made some phone calls and was either rebuffed or the other team wanted something ridiculous that, in the long run, would have hurt the White Sox more?

 

Kenny is one of the most aggressive GMs out there, he isn't afraid to take chances and he stands up to the criticism (sometimes not as well as other times, but he shows his face).

 

Pods is a bargain considering the Sox didn't want to be stuck with Matthews or Pierre for 5 years.

 

I'd give the off-season a solid B. They didn't do much to upgrade, besides the bullpen, but faith in your current players isn't a bad thing, is it?

[thedoctor]

this offseason is difficult to judge because so many of the moves were made more with an eye on keeping the franchise viable for the long-term than for making short-term improvements. if we look at various parts of the roster the only major upgrades we've made over this time last year is in our bullpen and back-up catching situation. other than that it could be argued that the other areas are either a push, or a drop-off.

[ptatc]

With Spring training right around the corner I believe it is safe to assume the 40 man roster is set and we are going into the fight with what we have.

 

 

The thing that ticks me off more than anything though is that the payroll is flat. 3M people came through the turnstyles and there is not a better product as a result of it. Other teams are spending and although maybe there is not value in the amount given, it still has to be given. If we are not going to pay and it appears we are not with Buerhle, Crede, Dye(?), who is going to play for this team.

 

If Fields replaces Crede, Sweeney replaces Dye and Danks replaces Buerhle, our payroll is going to drop by $20M. Can these guys do the job? We will not know until a year is almost gone. By that time my money is gone and the 3M fans could jump ship if they fail. I see the money point but we can not take our wallet and go home that is the stae of affairs of the MLB today.

 

When you look at the budget you need to remember how revenue is generated. Yes, attandance increased but the windfall from the playoffs from the previous year was not there. The clubs make a great deal of money from the playoffs. The players are paid during the regular season. Playoff money is pure profit. So while the actual budget didn't change, the increased attendance allowed it to stay flat without the playoff windfall.

 

The club did use the money from attendance to do this so it should not tick you off.

[southsider2k5]

When you look at the budget you need to remember how revenue is generated. Yes, attandance increased but the windfall from the playoffs from the previous year was not there. The clubs make a great deal of money from the playoffs. The players are paid during the regular season. Playoff money is pure profit. So while the actual budget didn't change, the increased attendance allowed it to stay flat without the playoff windfall.

 

The club did use the money from attendance to do this so it should not tick you off.

 

Great post. I am actually looking forward to this years Forbes #s for MLB to see what the revenue stream actually looked like when compared to last year.

[Damen]

When you look at the budget you need to remember how revenue is generated. Yes, attandance increased but the windfall from the playoffs from the previous year was not there. The clubs make a great deal of money from the playoffs. The players are paid during the regular season. Playoff money is pure profit. So while the actual budget didn't change, the increased attendance allowed it to stay flat without the playoff windfall.

 

The club did use the money from attendance to do this so it should not tick you off.

 

Not necessarily true. A lot of players have bonuses structured into their contracts regarding making the playoffs/playoff performance. I'm sure the organization still makes quite a bit (on increased merch alone), but its not pure profit.

[NorthSideSox72]

This team, on paper, improved a LITTLE for 2007, and a LOT for 2008 and beyond. Considering the already very high talent level and payroll level of the team, as well as the absurd market prices, I'd say that's a successful offseason.

[Vance Law]

Even though I like the way Kenny approached this offseason, any improvement in our teams chances this year will come from players rebounding from substandard years in '06, because we didn't do much to improve the team over the offseason.

 

I think the main improvement was always going to have to come from players rebounding from '06. The pitching players. Most importantly, the starters. Our 4 starters from last year need to have notably better years for us to improve. How else could we improve the starting pitching? The free agent market? What free agent starters could you have said, with a reasonable degree of certainty, would definitely be an upgrade on one of ours? Matsuzaka for $100+ million, which would have required a bid of $52 million just to talk with him. Zito for $126 million? Debatable even that he'd be an upgrade even in the short term when you stick him in our park and that contract is a disaster. We were never going to make those deals.

The bullpen, meanwhile, was upgraded in my opinion. I'm pretty psyched about the arms we got. we'll have to see how they pan out. Anyone who says the bullpen is worse, I'll say "hey that's your guesstimate. I prefer my guesstimate."

 

There are question marks. Question marks, calculated risks, often times pan out. We had question marks in '05. We seemingly had fewer question marks in '06 and see what happened. The Tigers certainly had a lot of question marks last year. The Yankees are the one team who seem to buy their way into the fewest question marks and when was the last time they were in the World Series?

[ptatc]

Not necessarily true. A lot of players have bonuses structured into their contracts regarding making the playoffs/playoff performance. I'm sure the organization still makes quite a bit (on increased merch alone), but its not pure profit.

 

I'm not sure but I believe those are paid the following year. Even so, all of the bonuses would most likely equal less than 1 million dollars.

[DrunkBomber]

Itll be hard to tell till we see the results. they brought in a lot of question marks and well have to see how they perform. Well also have to see how guys like BMac and Garcia do compared to the guys we got for them. I would of liked some offensive help contact and on base wise but I am happy with our bullpen moreso.

[southsider2k5]

I know the easy thing will be to argue the results on a game by game basis, but that wasn't what this off-season was about. I liked the fact that Kenny and the staff recognized the shift in the finances of baseball, and made moves to counter that. I still question the Brandon McCarthy deal, but at the sametime, I do get the logic behind it.

 

It will be really interesting to see how this new batch of arms pans out. For some reason it seems we can't scout HS and college arms to save our lives, but for some reason once they hit the minors, all of the sudden we know what we are doing. Think of the "minor" deals we have made over the years, and how they have turned out. Personally I think the Sisco for Gload deal is the one we will be doing backflips over by 2009 or so.

[striker]

The only thing that needs to improve is the players performance, not their names. We fielded an awesome team last year and they didn't get the job done, specifically the pitching. I'm not afraid of how the 5th start turns out because these days a 4.5-5.0 ERA is rewarded.

 

People are so obsessed with moves when moves don't win baseball games, playing good baseball wins baseball games.

[Balta1701]

I'm fairly indifferent about this offseason for the short term, because to my eyes, unlike post-05, the White Sox didn't really make any moves with a high probability of making the team better in 07.

 

That's not to say that none of the moves we made will help us in 07, especially if the Bullpen lives up to potential, but just comparing the last 2 offseasons; during the 05 season, our biggest weakness was the lack of a left handed power/OPS bat. So what do we do? We get one of the 2 or 3 best in the game and stick him at DH.

 

Coming out of 06, we showed some more weaknesses, specifically in the OF and in the bullpen, and unlike 05, the moves we made don't have a high probability of improving those slots. Erstad is the only OF addition unless Terrero does something, and the Bullpen didn't really get anything I'd consider a "Sure thing" added to it.

 

In 2 years or so, it's entirely possible we'll look back on this offseason and thank KW for all of the moves he made. Hell, if Aardsma, Masset, and Sisco put up good numbers in the pen this season, we may well be playing deep into October. But my biggest concern is that we seem to have made much bigger bets this offseason than last offseason, and since I'm not a gambler, that doesn't leave me feeling hugely confident.

[striker]

But my biggest concern is that we seem to have made much bigger bets this offseason than last offseason, and since I'm not a gambler, that doesn't leave me feeling hugely confident.

 

Last years moves weren't big bets like this year but where did it land us. I don't think the moves we made make us worse, if anything this team will be the same or better.

 

Dye and Buehrle are in contract years. Look for awesome numbers from them.

[badatbest]

From the front office finanacial standpoint this offseason was pretty amazing. Reinsdorf has to be pretty happy. They saved themselves alot of money going forward. We will have a very cheap pitching staff for the next 6-7 years if any of these prospects pan out.

 

From a fan standpoint i could care less about finances. I dont see Jerry buying me hotdogs. That being said, there werent any players in free agency i wish they had gone after AND i think we will still be competetive in the central. Should be a fun year.

[striker]

From the front office finanacial standpoint this offseason was pretty amazing. Reinsdorf has to be pretty happy. They saved themselves alot of money going forward. We will have a very cheap pitching staff for the next 6-7 years if any of these prospects pan out.

 

From a fan standpoint i could care less about finances. I dont see Jerry buying me hotdogs. That being said, there werent any players in free agency i wish they had gone after AND i think we will still be competetive in the central. Should be a fun year.

 

Plus, the money can always be spent later when there are more talented free agents. If CF sucks again this year and Dye leaves then maybe we sign Hunter or Ichiro.

 

You can't just spend to show face to your fans (See Jim Hendry), you have to spend wisely.

Edited February 7, 2007 by striker62704

[Damen]

I think the main improvement was always going to have to come from players rebounding from '06. The pitching players. Most importantly, the starters. Our 4 starters from last year need to have notably better years for us to improve. How else could we improve the starting pitching? The free agent market? What free agent starters could you have said, with a reasonable degree of certainty, would definitely be an upgrade on one of ours? Matsuzaka for $100+ million, which would have required a bid of $52 million just to talk with him. Zito for $126 million? Debatable even that he'd be an upgrade even in the short term when you stick him in our park and that contract is a disaster. We were never going to make those deals.

The bullpen, meanwhile, was upgraded in my opinion. I'm pretty psyched about the arms we got. we'll have to see how they pan out. Anyone who says the bullpen is worse, I'll say "hey that's your guesstimate. I prefer my guesstimate."

 

There are question marks. Question marks, calculated risks, often times pan out. We had question marks in '05. We seemingly had fewer question marks in '06 and see what happened. The Tigers certainly had a lot of question marks last year. The Yankees are the one team who seem to buy their way into the fewest question marks and when was the last time they were in the World Series?

 

I agree with you, for the most part. I'm glad Williams stayed away from the free agent hysteria this offseason. Still, I'm still a little disappointed that we traded Garcia and McCarthy, and recieved very little in return that will help us in 2007. Gavin Floyd will not pitch better than Brandon McCarthy this season, if ever.

[GreatScott82]

I agree with you, for the most part. I'm glad Williams stayed away from the free agent hysteria this offseason. Still, I'm still a little disappointed that we traded Garcia and McCarthy, and recieved very little in return that will help us in 2007. Gavin Floyd will not pitch better than Brandon McCarthy this season, if ever.

I think he can definitley win 10-12 games this year. But if it is an issue.. and we are still in the hunt.. it is KW's responsibility to go out and find a pitcher by the trade deadline. I don't want him to force the issue and plug in guys like Broadway, Logan, Gio or Danks..let them mature in triple-a for a season. I would much rather have KW go out and get a serviceable guy to finish the season at that spot. Remember we don't need 5 starters in the postseason if we make it, we need 4.

[Hideaway Lights]

What makes people think Javier "Headcase" Vazquez will somehow be able to magically pitch in the AL?

 

What makes people think Podsednik could possibly offer anything but disappointment?

 

Worst offseason in recent memory. I feel worse about this team than about any team since 1999.

[witesoxfan]

What makes people think Javier "Headcase" Vazquez will somehow be able to magically pitch in the AL?

 

What makes people think Podsednik could possibly offer anything but disappointment?

 

Worst offseason in recent memory. I feel worse about this team than about any team since 1999.

 

First of all, we've heard it before dude, and it's already been discussed.

 

http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=56373

 

Secondly, you name 2 players as to why this season is going to suck and why the offseason was bad. Completely disregard the amount of depth brought in to the bullpen - proven or not - and the amount of pitching brought in that will be ready for the future.

 

And, finally, may I ask...what did the other teams in the division do to improve themselves? The Tigers added Gary Sheffield, the Indians added 200 years of experience in their bullpen and a couple solid OFers, and the Twins added Ramon Ortiz and Sidney Ponson. Maybe it's just me, but I'll take the Sox offseason over their's.

 

But maybe that's just me.