mr_genius Posted February 16, 2007 Share Posted February 16, 2007 QUOTE(vandy125 @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 03:53 PM) I like the idea of Haeger in the pen with those fireballers. Can you imagine adjusting from Haeger to Jenks? i don't like the idea of having a knuckleballer as a pen guy. too many walks late in games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock1735 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 06:06 PM) Aside for the "Mallet" and "Sisko" spellings, I am interested in how a long man that will probably get 40-50 innings is more valuable than a 5th starter that could get 140+ McCarthy, remember him, 53 app's two starts, threw 83 innings last year. You're right about a fifth starter being more important than a middle guy. My point was, the fifth starter out of ST will not be the same throughout the year. They will replace and replace and probably even skip the spot until somebody wins it over. I'm not a huge Whitesox fan, but those who are should realize the importance of McCarthy last year and what role he served, he did a great job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 QUOTE(rock1735 @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 06:09 PM) McCarthy, remember him, 53 app's two starts, threw 83 innings last year. You're right about a fifth starter being more important than a middle guy. My point was, the fifth starter out of ST will not be the same throughout the year. They will replace and replace and probably even skip the spot until somebody wins it over. I'm not a huge Whitesox fan, but those who are should realize the importance of McCarthy last year and what role he served, he did a great job. no, he really didn't. There were people forgiving him - me included - but he didn't do a good job at all. You can't give up that many homers out of the bullpen and be considered good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock1735 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 QUOTE(mr_genius @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 06:42 PM) i don't like the idea of having a knuckleballer as a pen guy. too many walks late in games. Take look at his stats after the september callup. 14 innings 14 baserunners allowed (7 bb's, 7 h's), 17 k's, 1 ER. He would not be in after the 7th in most games, the GM did a nice job adding the desired late inning power arms like Detroit. I think with a starter like MB who's had a up and down career, the real age of Contreras and whoever the fifth starter is makes a mid/long reliever very important to this team. Sorry about the Masset spelling, that was bad....at least sisco was close Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rock1735 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 07:23 PM) no, he really didn't. There were people forgiving him - me included - but he didn't do a good job at all. You can't give up that many homers out of the bullpen and be considered good. I tell you what, look at the other mid/long guys in the AL. Find me two that did a better job than McCarthy. Homeruns, doubles, singles walks, who cares. A run is a run. I don't see any difference in a homerun versus two hits and walk mixed in. It's about eating up innings and giving the very good offense a chance to battle back. Sure, McCarthy gave up a high percentage of bombs/IP. If you want to argue the end of the season was poor, you're right, his ERA jumped over the 4.5 mark and he struggled. Then at least give me that until September he was perhaps the best in the AL when his ERA was at or under 4. All in all, the sox were way ahead of the game compared to the rest of the AL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandy125 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(rock1735 @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 06:24 PM) Take look at his stats after the september callup. 14 innings 14 baserunners allowed (7 bb's, 7 h's), 17 k's, 1 ER. He would not be in after the 7th in most games, the GM did a nice job adding the desired late inning power arms like Detroit. I think with a starter like MB who's had a up and down career, the real age of Contreras and whoever the fifth starter is makes a mid/long reliever very important to this team. Sorry about the Masset spelling, that was bad....at least sisco was close That was not really my point about when he would be used. It is more that we have abunch of fireballers in the pen, and I just like that change between him and a fireballer. I agree with whoever else stated that they don't necessarily like a knuckleballer in the pen from the walks angle. Another point to that is how easy would it be to steal on him? I don't know how good he is at holding on runners, but knuckleballers can be very tough to catch. Edited February 17, 2007 by vandy125 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 FWIW, Gammons on his blog on ESPN.com polled 70 front office people on who would be the biggest breakout player in 2007. The number 1 pick, Brandon McCarthy, with a little Jack McDowell II reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DABearSoX Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I'm givin my love to Charlie on this one.....even though I would love to have a 5th starter with the name Lance Broadway......what a great porn name Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 09:27 PM) FWIW, Gammons on his blog on ESPN.com polled 70 front office people on who would be the biggest breakout player in 2007. The number 1 pick, Brandon McCarthy, with a little Jack McDowell II reference. Is this available only with an insider subscription? I couldn't find his blog. If McCarthy does justify this title, and we're floundering with the 5th starters position, Williams will appear like a complete dope. He better hope the following events occur -- Masset is an immediate impact player in the bullpen, and Danks pitchers similarily (or better) than McCarthy from 2008 onwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilJester99 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) Something in the Cubune I found interesting was that Don Cooper said they are going to look at Masset as a possiblity as a starter as well. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines Edited February 17, 2007 by EvilJester99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 QUOTE(rock1735 @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 06:35 PM) I tell you what, look at the other mid/long guys in the AL. Find me two that did a better job than McCarthy. Homeruns, doubles, singles walks, who cares. A run is a run. I don't see any difference in a homerun versus two hits and walk mixed in. It's about eating up innings and giving the very good offense a chance to battle back. Sure, McCarthy gave up a high percentage of bombs/IP. If you want to argue the end of the season was poor, you're right, his ERA jumped over the 4.5 mark and he struggled. Then at least give me that until September he was perhaps the best in the AL when his ERA was at or under 4. All in all, the sox were way ahead of the game compared to the rest of the AL. Just so we're clear on this, McCarthy splits as a reliever... 51 G, 4.78 ERA, 1.34 WHIP, 3.7 BB/9, 6.8 K/9, 1.8 K/BB, 1.7 HR/9 in 75.1 IP. Secondly, home run ratio is incredibly important for a reliever, because if those 2 hits and walk can easily turn into a 3 run homer instead of just a run or two, and from there it can really only get worse. I'd rather have a long reliever that puts up a 1.50 WHIP and allows Third, McCarthy's ERA was under 4 at the end of April (3.38). After that point, his ERA wasn't under 4 until July 26th, which is a stretch of almost 3 months, and the lowest it ever got was 3.82 on August 26th. So no, I won't give you that he was the best long reliever until September when his ERA ballooned, because his ERA was ballooned all year. Next, disregarding everything McCarthy did, what in the hell does having a good long reliever even do for a club? If you really think about it, the only time a true long reliever will come in to play is when a. The score is so ridiculously out of hand that there's no need to waste good bullpen arms b. The starter was so bad that the long reliever has to come in early to try and bridge the gap to the rest of the pen c. Extra innings a and b are tied together, but b could be an injury, or a could be the bullpen getting shallacked on any given day. That means they may have an effect on true, full-out, game saving effect on like 3, maybe 4 games? Possibly less? It's not a huge effect at all. Finally, the 2 you wanted... Darren Oliver Hector Carrasco ...plus a few others... Oscar Villarreal Jason Davis Jason Grilli Chad Gaudin McCarthy was bad last year, and there's no way around it. Sure I would have rather had him than Willie Eyre eating innings, but that sure as hell didn't stop the Twins from winning the division. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 10:58 PM) Is this available only with an insider subscription? I couldn't find his blog. If McCarthy does justify this title, and we're floundering with the 5th starters position, Williams will appear like a complete dope. He better hope the following events occur -- Masset is an immediate impact player in the bullpen, and Danks pitchers similarily (or better) than McCarthy from 2008 onwards. Yes its with the insider subscription. On the other hand, Steve Stone was very complimentary towards Masset on the Score the other day. You can hear the interview on their website,although you have to listen to about 10 minutes of Cubs garbage (on the White Sox flagship) before you get to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 QUOTE(vandy125 @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I like the idea of Haeger in the pen with those fireballers. Can you imagine adjusting from Haeger to Jenks? So you currently have Haeger penciled in as your 8th inning guy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vandy125 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 08:43 AM) So you currently have Haeger penciled in as your 8th inning guy? Not at all. If you looked at my next post that I clarified my thoughts with, the point was that we have a lot of fireballers, and I like the thought of going from Haeger to any one of those guys. I just threw Jenks out there as a name of one of those fireballers. I would never pencil Haeger in for the 8th. Give me some credit for at least having an IQ. Edited February 17, 2007 by vandy125 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Feb 16, 2007 -> 09:27 PM) FWIW, Gammons on his blog on ESPN.com polled 70 front office people on who would be the biggest breakout player in 2007. The number 1 pick, Brandon McCarthy, with a little Jack McDowell II reference. It could be true, if Jack gave up a ridiculous amount of gopherballs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 03:16 PM) It could be true, if Jack gave up a ridiculous amount of gopherballs Aardsma, the guy KW got to take McCarthy's place in the bullpen, gave up a ridiculous number of gopherballs himself in a very weak NL, but if you read this board, he's unhittable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 03:35 PM) Aardsma, the guy KW got to take McCarthy's place in the bullpen, gave up a ridiculous number of gopherballs himself in a very weak NL, but if you read this board, he's unhittable. The NL has some very good hitters in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 03:35 PM) Aardsma, the guy KW got to take McCarthy's place in the bullpen, gave up a ridiculous number of gopherballs himself in a very weak NL, but if you read this board, he's unhittable. Although it's not nearly to the extent people have annointed Masset unhittable. No so much here, but at WSI it's ridiculous. Personally, I'd have to first see him pitch in spring training before drawing any conclusions. He's only been pitching out of the bullpen for a shortwhile, and I'm not one to place stock in Mexican League statistics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 03:39 PM) The NL has some very good hitters in it. Which is why the home run he gave up to Albert Pujols is understandable but to give up homeruns to Carlos Lee and Scott Rolen on 0-2 counts is just inexcusable. A 2 run HR to a crippled Edmonds on a 3-2 count is never pretty but you're right the other greats of the NL got to him such as Ronny Paulino, J.J. Hardy, Brandon Phillips, Ronny Belliard and Jimmy Rollins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 04:04 PM) Which is why the home run he gave up to Albert Pujols is understandable but to give up homeruns to Carlos Lee and Scott Rolen on 0-2 counts is just inexcusable. A 2 run HR to a crippled Edmonds on a 3-2 count is never pretty but you're right the other greats of the NL got to him such as Ronny Paulino, J.J. Hardy, Brandon Phillips, Ronny Belliard and Jimmy Rollins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 03:35 PM) Aardsma, the guy KW got to take McCarthy's place in the bullpen, gave up a ridiculous number of gopherballs himself in a very weak NL, but if you read this board, he's unhittable. What McCarthy gave up was ridiculous. 17 in 85 innings is a horrendous rate, and there's no way around it. Aardsma's home run ratio was bad as well - not nearly to the extent of McCarthy, but 1.5 isn't 1.7, and McCarthy's was worse overall on the year. The other promising stat about Aardsma is that his HR/9 was decreasing as the year went on, from 2 HR/9 in the first half (in 18.1 innings) to 1.30 HR/9 in the second half. McCarthy's got considerably worse from the first to the second half, with a 1.47 HR/9 before the ASG to a laughable 2.25 HR/9 in the second half. And by all accounts, Aardsma has better stuff than McCarthy, so that alone should help as well. Aardsma's may go up from moving to a pitchers park/league to a hitters park/league, but I doubt it moves up the 1.70 range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baines3 Posted February 17, 2007 Share Posted February 17, 2007 I'm going with Gavin Floyd. Haeger will probably come out of the pullpen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Guillen said he has been impressed by Gavin Floyd, a candidate for the fifth spot in the rotation. "The way he's throwing, I'm not leaning to it, but we're going to take a look at Floyd and see how he does," Guillen said. Floyd, Charlie Haeger and Nick Masset are scheduled to throw two innings each in Monday's intrasquad game. Jose Contreras also will pitch in Monday's game. What the hell does that mean? Is it just me or does the bold conflict with the italics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Doesn't sound very contradictory to me. Guillen has probably already made his decision of Floyd as the 5th starter, and now needs the result to match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Feb 17, 2007 -> 09:35 PM) Aardsma, the guy KW got to take McCarthy's place in the bullpen, gave up a ridiculous number of gopherballs himself in a very weak NL, but if you read this board, he's unhittable. Aardsma is definitely my pick for most disappointing player this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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