Chief Illiniwek.....HE GONE!!!

[IlliniKrush]

I'm sad to see the Chief go. I see why he's going, and i'm not throwing a hissy fit about it even though I think the reasons behind it aren't very good. But it's something you become accustomed to, and you don't think of it as a native indian type thing at all. It just becomes part of your school experience. The reason it meant a lot to me is that it always came right before the Alma Mater at a bball game or football game, a time when students and alumni of all shapes and sizes could celebrate the school as one. Surrounding the court and singing the Alma Mater with fellow fans while the Chief holds his arms wide open for all makes you feel like you are at the heart of the university. It was one of my favorite traditions. Now i'm sure it will live on in some fashion, as the Alma Mater won't go away, but it won't be quite the same. That's one reason I think it meant a lot to others as well, maybe not. I'm sure everyone has their reasons.

 

If you didn't go to the school you don't have to get it and i respect everyone's opinions about it. But people are indeed emotional about it for various reasons (I mean imagine some alum from the 60's or whatever that has seen this for years), i'm not to the point of crying for days over it by any means, but i'd be lying if i didn't feel a bit choked up while watching him come back out one last time to acknowledge the crowd. Kudos to ESPNU for at least covering the entire thing.

Edited February 22, 2007 by IlliniKrush

[AddisonStSox]

I'm sad to see the Chief go. I see why he's going, and i'm not throwing a hissy fit about it even though I think the reasons behind it aren't very good. But it's something you become accustomed to, and you don't think of it as a native indian type thing at all. It just becomes part of your school experience. The reason it meant a lot to me is that it always came right before the Alma Mater at a bball game or football game, a time when students and alumni of all shapes and sizes could celebrate the school as one. Surrounding the court and singing the Alma Mater with fellow fans while the Chief holds his arms wide open for all makes you feel like you are at the heart of the university. It was one of my favorite traditions. Now i'm sure it will live on in some fashion, as the Alma Mater won't go away, but it won't be quite the same. That's one reason I think it meant a lot to others as well, maybe not. I'm sure everyone has their reasons.

 

If you didn't go to the school you don't have to get it and i respect everyone's opinions about it. But people are indeed emotional about it for various reasons (I mean imagine some alum from the 60's or whatever that has seen this for years), i'm not to the point of crying for days over it by any means, but i'd be lying if i didn't feel a bit choked up while watching him come back out one last time to acknowledge the crowd. Kudos to ESPNU for at least covering the entire thing.

 

Krush, Steve-O, Dorf, Corn, others,

 

We all know what Chief meant to us, our undergraduate experience, and our UIUC history and pride. There is no real use in trying to convey what we are feeling today to others whom have not had the same collegiate experience.

 

It truly is hard seeing him go. In many respects, he represented our collegiate experience--academics, athletics, student camaraderie, etc. I wish my kids could have experienced their old man's favorite U of I tradition. He was much more than a mascot and all of us know that; today is for us current or former Illinois students, don't let others rain on our parade. I was proud of all Chief represented. Oskee-Wow-Wow

[thedoctor]

What would be a whole lot better in this situation is if people actually put some time and resources into helping Native Americans. The poverty rate, health profiles, education levels, etc. are abysmal on the reservations. In the end, this doesn't actually do anything for them.

 

great point. i think that the university could have salvaged the chief by making a few concessions or showing a desire to invest in native americans, whether it was by establishing a great native american studies program, funding a scholarship endowment for native american students, or something of that nature. but, as i mentioned earlier people were pretty much unwilling to compromise on either side, so the debate never got past "the chief must stay/the chief must go."

 

EDIT: upon further review illinois does indeed have an american indian studies program.

Edited February 22, 2007 by thedoctor

[CanOfCorn]

Now since I never have or will go to U of I, I won't fully understand. But having been to over a dozen football and basketball games in Chambana, having family that went to school down there, and knowing people now down there....I never have or will get the Chief thing. All those people crying and such tonight....get over it and remember it's just a student in a costume dancing around. Cry over what the Indian race in this nation has become. I'm glad the Chief sillyness is over, although I would hope "fighting illini" doesn't go away. If they get rid of that, might as well change the name of the state.

 

 

Please...despite what AddisonSt said...which is right on, by the way, and thank you for that...don't tell someone to "get over it" right after you say, "I never have or will get the Chief thing."

 

That's just wrong. You've made your point. The Chief is gone. And many of us, who grew up with the Chief (both my parents went there) and then got to enjoy the Chief for themselves...it is sad.

[hitlesswonder]

Now since I never have or will go to U of I, I won't fully understand. But having been to over a dozen football and basketball games in Chambana, having family that went to school down there, and knowing people now down there....I never have or will get the Chief thing. All those people crying and such tonight....get over it and remember it's just a student in a costume dancing around. Cry over what the Indian race in this nation has become. I'm glad the Chief sillyness is over, although I would hope "fighting illini" doesn't go away. If they get rid of that, might as well change the name of the state.

 

Well, I graduated from Illinois and I don't get it either. I think keeping the name Illini is a good idea -- it's one of the last reminders that the 6 tribes making up the Illini confederation used to live here before being killed or exiled to Oklahoma. I also agree that if people want to get upset about something, the state of life on reservations today would be worthier.

 

Or, if people want to get worked up about the University of Illinois, how about being concerned that the State now funds less than 30% of the university budget? It's getting to the point where tuition will have to be raised to the level of private schools, which is a problem if you think a college education should be affordable to people from a middle-class income level.

[daa84]

i dont go to u of i, but i understand why people would be upset over this. Taking him away is kind of like taking away the exploding scoreboard from sox games, or taking the ivy off of the wall at wrigley. The dance is part of the team and institutions history, and part of who they are. While it may appear to simply be "some drunk frat boy" (as some of the not so elegant posters here claim) to many people it is one of those things that help identify them as the fighting illini. That said I understand that to some the dance is offensive, (even though i find it more honorable than offensive) and that there is legit reason to get rid of it. But for those in this thread to come in and say "you are a moron for being upset by this" simply shows a lack of respect for those who are proud of a tradition that lasted for many years. It is a tradition that many people who attended or were fans of the university are proud of and indentified with. That said, I do think it was excessive for those who were balling at the game last night. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the Chief should or shouldn't go, I just think that some people have the right to be upset over this, and that others on this board have no reason to tell them otherwise

Edited February 22, 2007 by daa84

[CanOfCorn]

That said, I do think it was excessive for those who were balling at the game last night. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the Chief should or shouldn't go, I just think that some people have the right to be upset over this, and that others on this board have no reason to tell them otherwise

 

 

Have you ever been to a White Sox game that ended in an historic fashion? Or, maybe a clinching game to get to the World Series? Emotions sometimes get the best of you. Sometimes at a sports event. I still tear up when I see the 1980 US Men's Hockey team beat the Russians. Why? I don't know. Is it still excessive? I teared up at the end of the Bears-Saints game. It happens and it's not excessive.

[Balance]

It would have been nice for the game to be on a channel that more than 5 people get....

[Pauly8509CWS]

Krush, Steve-O, Dorf, Corn, others,

 

We all know what Chief meant to us, our undergraduate experience, and our UIUC history and pride. There is no real use in trying to convey what we are feeling today to others whom have not had the same collegiate experience.

 

It truly is hard seeing him go. In many respects, he represented our collegiate experience--academics, athletics, student camaraderie, etc. I wish my kids could have experienced their old man's favorite U of I tradition. He was much more than a mascot and all of us know that; today is for us current or former Illinois students, don't let others rain on our parade. I was proud of all Chief represented. Oskee-Wow-Wow

 

 

For the rest of you guys that go here, watch it again, I've been here for less than a year, but I got chills every halftime. Because that means, when the Chief is out there, the people you sing the Alma Mater with are basically like your family. You are one with them, You are the Illini Nation.

 

 

I got a bit choked up yesterday, being on the floor for the last Chief performance, and you know what, I get choked up watching it. I grew up watching Illinois sports, and I came here excited to know that we had one of the most storied half times of all time, and now it's being taken away from us.

 

Oh well, all I can say to the people who claim to be offended by Chief, get off your soap box.

 

To those that are here and understand, don't let anyone forget that we at the University of Illinois, were robbed of one of the coolest things in collegiate athletics.

[CanOfCorn]

For the rest of you guys that go here, watch it again, I've been here for less than a year, but I got chills every halftime. Because that means, when the Chief is out there, the people you sing the Alma Mater with are basically like your family. You are one with them, You are the Illini Nation.

 

 

I got a bit choked up yesterday, being on the floor for the last Chief performance, and you know what, I get choked up watching it. I grew up watching Illinois sports, and I came here excited to know that we had one of the most storied half times of all time, and now it's being taken away from us.

 

Oh well, all I can say to the people who claim to be offended by Chief, get off your soap box.

 

To those that are here and understand, don't let anyone forget that we at the University of Illinois, were robbed of one of the coolest things in collegiate athletics.

 

 

Thanks for posting that.

[RockRaines]

Oh well, all I can say to the people who claim to be offended by Chief, get off your soap box.

 

To those that are here and understand, don't let anyone forget that we at the University of Illinois, were robbed of one of the coolest things in collegiate athletics.

Yeah, FU people who think this is racist against your heritage!!! You are taking away something that isnt nearly as old or sacred as your ancestors!!!

 

 

Coolest thing in collegiate athletics? Meh, is it even the coolest thing in the big ten?

[BigSqwert]

Oh well, all I can say to the people who claim to be offended by Chief, get off your soap box.

Right because because no one has a right to be offended by racism as long as Pauly8509CWS from a White Sox message board doesn't think you should be.

[LowerCaseRepublican]

For the rest of you guys that go here, watch it again, I've been here for less than a year, but I got chills every halftime. Because that means, when the Chief is out there, the people you sing the Alma Mater with are basically like your family. You are one with them, You are the Illini Nation.

 

 

I got a bit choked up yesterday, being on the floor for the last Chief performance, and you know what, I get choked up watching it. I grew up watching Illinois sports, and I came here excited to know that we had one of the most storied half times of all time, and now it's being taken away from us.

 

Oh well, all I can say to the people who claim to be offended by Chief, get off your soap box.

 

To those that are here and understand, don't let anyone forget that we at the University of Illinois, were robbed of one of the coolest things in collegiate athletics.

There have been plenty of things that have recently left the U of I. Sadly, the Chief is like 2734798274893479824347th on that list.

 

For starters:

 

-Dignity: A scandal involving at least 7 players, assistant coaches and may stem all the way up to the coach for a severe underage DUI and attempted coverup when they thought a fellow player was dead.

 

-Respect: Classrooms south of Green, anyone? They're reprehensible and not even up to fire code sometimes.

 

-Honor: Using a no-compete contract with a soda manufacturer that uses death squads in Colombia to bust up unions.

 

-Harassment: Harassment of minority students on campus and the campus crime rate.

 

-The disappearance of mid-size lectures

 

-The problems with the graduate union and the institution

 

-The sheer delapidation of the academic integrity of some departments by not getting the best and brightest professors to establish UIUC as a major, respected research university.

 

That's just to name a few.

 

And it was a tradition. Just because it was a tradition and "gave me chills" does not mean that it is a tradition worth keeping. I chuckle at Chico Marx's over the top accent in the Marx Bros. films. Does that mean that every Italian then must keep an over the top accent in order to be funny as a character? Nope. It was a film stereotype and a tradition -- but one that people moved on from because it ended up being not only stupid but discriminatory. Just like the Chief.

[SnB]

For the rest of you guys that go here, watch it again, I've been here for less than a year, but I got chills every halftime. Because that means, when the Chief is out there, the people you sing the Alma Mater with are basically like your family. You are one with them, You are the Illini Nation.

 

 

I got a bit choked up yesterday, being on the floor for the last Chief performance, and you know what, I get choked up watching it. I grew up watching Illinois sports, and I came here excited to know that we had one of the most storied half times of all time, and now it's being taken away from us.

 

Oh well, all I can say to the people who claim to be offended by Chief, get off your soap box.

 

To those that are here and understand, don't let anyone forget that we at the University of Illinois, were robbed of one of the coolest things in collegiate athletics.

i was up in C and it was one of the coolest experience i've ever been a part of.

As soon as the half ends, EVERYONE shuts up and all you hear is:

clap, clap, clap clap clap.

 

I'll never forget it.

 

There have been plenty of things that have recently left the U of I. Sadly, the Chief is like 2734798274893479824347th on that list.

 

For starters:

 

-Dignity: A scandal involving at least 7 players, assistant coaches and may stem all the way up to the coach for a severe underage DUI and attempted coverup when they thought a fellow player was dead.

 

-Respect: Classrooms south of Green, anyone? They're reprehensible and not even up to fire code sometimes.

 

-Honor: Using a no-compete contract with a soda manufacturer that uses death squads in Colombia to bust up unions.

 

-Harassment: Harassment of minority students on campus and the campus crime rate.

 

-The disappearance of mid-size lectures

 

-The problems with the graduate union and the institution

 

-The sheer delapidation of the academic integrity of some departments by not getting the best and brightest professors to establish UIUC as a major, respected research university.

 

That's just to name a few.

 

And it was a tradition. Just because it was a tradition and "gave me chills" does not mean that it is a tradition worth keeping. I chuckle at Chico Marx's over the top accent in the Marx Bros. films. Does that mean that every Italian then must keep an over the top accent in order to be funny as a character? Nope. It was a film stereotype and a tradition -- but one that people moved on from because it ended up being not only stupid but discriminatory. Just like the Chief.

 

I'll agree that there are bigger problems on campus than the chief, but then why did people start focusing all their attention on getting rid of it? It's been around forever and it was the anti-chief group that started focusing a ton of attention on it.

[BigSqwert]

... but then why did people start focusing all their attention on getting rid of it? It's been around forever...

In 1850 slavery had been around forever. Did that make it ok?

[CanOfCorn]

In 1850 slavery had been around forever. Did that make it ok?

 

Are you really comparing this to slavery? C'mon....

 

So, is Florida State or Utah any less racist? Just because they have an agreement with the tribe? Any more honorable? If the NCAA is going to blast one school because it's racist, then all of them should be, no matter what the agreement is. Do you guys agree?

[BigSqwert]

Are you really comparing this to slavery? C'mon....

 

So, is Florida State or Utah any less racist? Just because they have an agreement with the tribe? Any more honorable? If the NCAA is going to blast one school because it's racist, then all of them should be, no matter what the agreement is. Do you guys agree?

I'm not comparing it to slavery but using "it's been going on forever" doesn't make it right. Neither does "Some others schools are doing it".

[AddisonStSox]

Are you really comparing this to slavery? C'mon....

 

So, is Florida State or Utah any less racist? Just because they have an agreement with the tribe? Any more honorable? If the NCAA is going to blast one school because it's racist, then all of them should be, no matter what the agreement is. Do you guys agree?

 

Please. Answer this. Answer the man. Those arguing against keeping the Chief tradition, answer this question.

[BigSqwert]

Please. Answer this. Answer the man. Those arguing against keeping the Chief tradition, answer this question.

Yes, they too are racist.

[RockRaines]

Are you really comparing this to slavery? C'mon....

 

So, is Florida State or Utah any less racist? Just because they have an agreement with the tribe? Any more honorable? If the NCAA is going to blast one school because it's racist, then all of them should be, no matter what the agreement is. Do you guys agree?

Well, the FSU Chief was given to FSU by permission from the tribe, they also have had first hand experience in creating it and okaying all actions that the Chief performs. They also create the outfit of the Chief. illniwek was wearing the outfit of a rival tribe doing a boyscout dance with no permission from the tribe. The native americans see that as dishonoring their name and figurehead. SO I would say yes, the Illniwek is more wrong. Are they all wrong? Yes. Should all school be forces to change their mascots and names if they are native american based? yes. But in this case, no other teams matter, because the decendants of the "Chiefs" namesake dont want it, so you cant have it.

 

Outside of people who go to illinois, does anyone else think the Chief's "dance" is cool? Im just wondering about the basis of claiming its one of the "coolest things in collegiate athletics." (not trying to stir you Illini up, just want outside opinions)

 

I liken it to script Ohio that the buckeyes do before games, and im pretty sure not many people outside of OSU fans think thats really cool.

Edited February 22, 2007 by RockRaines

[AddisonStSox]

Yes, they too are racist.

 

I thank you and I applaud your consistency. Honestly.

[FlaSoxxJim]

This is almost as bad as the end of Unofficial. Sorry gang, but a special day does not make getting drunk at 8 am okay. It's just an excuse the kids had to be raging drunks and I did nothing but laugh as some kids likened the end of Unofficial to the civil rights movement of the 1950s.

 

Well. Mr. Straightlace, I bet you were against Hash Wednesday too. . .

[CanOfCorn]

Well, the FSU Chief was given to FSU by permission from the tribe, they also have had first hand experience in creating it and okaying all actions that the Chief performs. They also create the outfit of the Chief. illniwek was wearing the outfit of a rival tribe doing a boyscout dance with no permission from the tribe. The native americans see that as dishonoring their name and figurehead. SO I would say yes, the Illniwek is more wrong. Are they all wrong? Yes. Should all school be forces to change their mascots and names if they are native american based? yes. But in this case, no other teams matter, because the decendants of the "Chiefs" namesake dont want it, so you cant have it.

 

Outside of people who go to illinois, does anyone else think the Chief's "dance" is cool? Im just wondering about the basis of claiming its one of the "coolest things in collegiate athletics." (not trying to stir you Illini up, just want outside opinions)

 

I liken it to script Ohio that the buckeyes do before games, and im pretty sure not many people outside of OSU fans think thats really cool.

 

 

That is definitely a great tradition. Especially when they have special guests dot the "i." There are great traditions everywhere. I remember talking to people from other colleges at U of I games saying how cool the Chief was. And there was never booing coming from the opponents section, at least not that I ever heard, during halftime.

 

I guess my problem isn't really with the Native Americans or anyone who opposed it, it's with the NCAA...Greg Couch said it best today:

 

The NCAA originally came out banning American Indian imagery, except for in football games. That was its moral stance.

 

Meanwhile, Illinois said it stood behind the Chief proudly, as a point of education about the state's history. Then, it kept him at home, in the closet, while the basketball team ran to the Final Four. That kept down the press coverage. That was Illinois' moral stance.

 

Fifteen years after the issue became hot, Illinois announced that it had come up with a framework for discussion on the issue.

 

Eventually, the NCAA said the imagery was hostile and abusive. And that was a strong statement. It told Illinois to drop the Chief, or it would never get an NCAA tournament for any sport at home.

 

Then, it approved the much more flamboyant imagery at Florida State. Why? Because Florida State had a financial agreement with its namesake Seminole tribe.

 

So the NCAA's moral stance was that Indian imagery was racist unless there was a business agreement?

 

What an education these educational organizations was providing.

 

''The NCAA was encouraging us to go out and buy a tribe,'' Tom Livingston, the Chief in 1988 and 1989, said Wednesday.

 

Of course. Then it would have been morally acceptable.

 

Just be consistent.

[IlliniKrush]

That is definitely a great tradition. Especially when they have special guests dot the "i." There are great traditions everywhere. I remember talking to people from other colleges at U of I games saying how cool the Chief was. And there was never booing coming from the opponents section, at least not that I ever heard, during halftime.

College sports are nothing without all the tradition and history.

 

Oh and for the record, i think the dotting of the "i" is indeed cool. And i have zero reason to root for OSU.

Edited February 22, 2007 by IlliniKrush

[StrangeSox]

Actually the people b****ing are the only descendants of the Illini tribe, but yeah, you are right.

 

Actually a majority of the people that b**** and protest are a bunch of white kids from the Chicago suburbs. So, yeah, I'm right.

 

I go to U of I currently and I don't really care one way or the other. As LCR pointed out, there's plenty of other problems on campus such as crumbling classrooms on the main campus. There's even more important issues with Native Americans to work out instead of this stuff.

Edited February 22, 2007 by StrangeSox