Chief Illiniwek.....HE GONE!!!

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Consistent doesn't necessarily mean all-or-none about names. For example, I think names like "Illini" or "Utes" are perfectly fine, but I find Chief Illiniwek to be unacceptable (so I think the right decision was made here). Why? Because the name is not an insult, but the chief and its behavior are. So, I'm consistent in my view. Just don't be offensive. If U of I really wanted to keep the chief, all they had to do was work with the tribe(s) and come up with a way for it not to be insulting. If they couldn't make that work, then just don't do it.

 

Of course, I have it easy, being a Cyclone. Can't really offend a weather system. But even that name is inaccurate, really, since a cyclone is just any low pressure system.

 

 

Jayhawks are slave fighters, we are PC!!!

[RockRaines]

Consistent doesn't necessarily mean all-or-none about names. For example, I think names like "Illini" or "Utes" are perfectly fine, but I find Chief Illiniwek to be unacceptable (so I think the right decision was made here). Why? Because the name is not an insult, but the chief and its behavior are. So, I'm consistent in my view. Just don't be offensive. If U of I really wanted to keep the chief, all they had to do was work with the tribe(s) and come up with a way for it not to be insulting. If they couldn't make that work, then just don't do it.

 

Of course, I have it easy, being a Cyclone. Can't really offend a weather system. But even that name is inaccurate, really, since a cyclone is just any low pressure system.

Well what about schools with names like the rebels? With the confederate flag in their symbol. There are plenty of other cases that should be examined.

[NorthSideSox72]

Well what about schools with names like the rebels? With the confederate flag in their symbol. There are plenty of other cases that should be examined.

I think that's a tougher one in that case. The confederate flag is part of a shared history, for good or for bad. Whereas the U of I did not share any history with the Illini, who were basically wiped out prior to U of I existing.

[CanOfCorn]

Consistent doesn't necessarily mean all-or-none about names. For example, I think names like "Illini" or "Utes" are perfectly fine, but I find Chief Illiniwek to be unacceptable (so I think the right decision was made here). Why? Because the name is not an insult, but the chief and its behavior are. So, I'm consistent in my view. Just don't be offensive. If U of I really wanted to keep the chief, all they had to do was work with the tribe(s) and come up with a way for it not to be insulting. If they couldn't make that work, then just don't do it.

 

Of course, I have it easy, being a Cyclone. Can't really offend a weather system. But even that name is inaccurate, really, since a cyclone is just any low pressure system.

 

The problem being, what if another tribe found the Seminole offensive? Or anyone for that matter. So what if the Seminole tribe is ok with it. The way it is now, if one person finds it offensive, then it should be done away with.

 

Illini is part of the state name, so I don't think that was ever in real danger. Ute, same thing.

[RockRaines]

I think that's a tougher one in that case. The confederate flag is part of a shared history, for good or for bad. Whereas the U of I did not share any history with the Illini, who were basically wiped out prior to U of I existing.

The reason I bring this up is because the rebel flag is a symbol of racism. It is widely known as a symbol of white supremacy and the KKK. This peaked my interest because I was watching that horrible football show on MTV and I saw numerous people waving the confederate flag. One could look at that as hostile and racist as well.

[longshot7]

Consistent doesn't necessarily mean all-or-none about names. For example, I think names like "Illini" or "Utes" are perfectly fine, but I find Chief Illiniwek to be unacceptable (so I think the right decision was made here). Why? Because the name is not an insult, but the chief and its behavior are. So, I'm consistent in my view. Just don't be offensive. If U of I really wanted to keep the chief, all they had to do was work with the tribe(s) and come up with a way for it not to be insulting. If they couldn't make that work, then just don't do it.

 

Agree with this, with the following example. The Chicago Blackhawks is not an offensive nickname, but if they had an Indian chucking a tomahawk on ice skates would be. Just like the Tomohawk Chop is racist & degrading.

[NorthSideSox72]

The problem being, what if another tribe found the Seminole offensive? Or anyone for that matter. So what if the Seminole tribe is ok with it. The way it is now, if one person finds it offensive, then it should be done away with.

 

Illini is part of the state name, so I don't think that was ever in real danger. Ute, same thing.

One person? You've made quite a leap there. A lot more than one person found the "chief" offensive, including members of what is left of who represents the tribe.

[CanOfCorn]

Agree with this, with the following example. The Chicago Blackhawks is not an offensive nickname, but if they had an Indian chucking a tomahawk on ice skates would be. Just like the Tomohawk Chop is racist & degrading.

 

I think you need to explain more than that. Not the second part, but why you think Blackhawks is not offensive.

[IlliniKrush]

I think you need to explain more than that. Not the second part, but why you think Blackhawks is not offensive.

I don't see how it could be offensive:

 

"McLaughlin had been a commander with the 333rd Machine Gun Battalion of the 86th Infantry Division during World War I. The division was named after a Native American; Chief Black Hawk, who was a prominent figure in the history of Illinois, and is one of many sports team names using Native Americans as icons. McLaughlin's wife, Irene Castle, designed the original version of the team's logo, which survived with only minor changes until 1955."

[NorthSideSox72]

I think you need to explain more than that. Not the second part, but why you think Blackhawks is not offensive.

Chief Black Hawk is a major figure in Illinois history - more so than the Illini tribe, really. He was among the last resistors in the area. The army eventually tracked him down, chased his band across northern Illinois and southern Wisconsin, and eventually ran them into the Mississippi where most were shot to death trying to cross. So, like the Illini name, the name itself is reverent, not offensive. You don't see some cartoonish feather-headed mascot parading around the ice at half time, do you (admitedly, its been a few years since I've been to a Hawks game).

[RockRaines]

Chief Black Hawk is a major figure in Illinois history - more so than the Illini tribe, really. He was among the last resistors in the area. The army eventually tracked him down, chased his band across northern Illinois and southern Wisconsin, and eventually ran them into the Mississippi where most were shot to death trying to cross. So, like the Illini name, the name itself is reverent, not offensive. You don't see some cartoonish feather-headed mascot parading around the ice at half time, do you (admitedly, its been a few years since I've been to a Hawks game).

No, in fact now they have scantily clad hot young women skating around the ice which is better than any Chief dance you can throw out there.

[CanOfCorn]

Chief Black Hawk is a major figure in Illinois history - more so than the Illini tribe, really. He was among the last resistors in the area. The army eventually tracked him down, chased his band across northern Illinois and southern Wisconsin, and eventually ran them into the Mississippi where most were shot to death trying to cross. So, like the Illini name, the name itself is reverent, not offensive. You don't see some cartoonish feather-headed mascot parading around the ice at half time, do you (admitedly, its been a few years since I've been to a Hawks game).

 

No you don't, but the U of I has also been criticized about it's use of the Chief logo on clothing and on the field. In fact, when I was there, they changed the mid-field logo from the Chief to the Block I. And I'm pretty sure that the university has a pretty tight rein on the use on clothing and other things they sell. You don't see it on uniforms at all.

 

So...the Blackhawks should be included in this discussion, although I think it's the best uniform in all of sports, too bad what's inside that uniform...not so good.

[IlliniKrush]

No, in fact now they have scantily clad hot young women skating around the ice which is better than any Chief dance you can throw out there.

Yeah...no.

[NorthSideSox72]

No you don't, but the U of I has also been criticized about it's use of the Chief logo on clothing and on the field. In fact, when I was there, they changed the mid-field logo from the Chief to the Block I. And I'm pretty sure that the university has a pretty tight rein on the use on clothing and other things they sell. You don't see it on uniforms at all.

 

So...the Blackhawks should be included in this discussion, although I think it's the best uniform in all of sports, too bad what's inside that uniform...not so good.

Maybe the logo is accurate to what he would have worn, I don't know (I believe he was Sac or Fox, though I'd have to dig up some old books to see). Or maybe those tribes gave permission. I don't know the history on the B-Hawks' logo to know on that one.

[RockRaines]

Yeah...no.

 

for the straight guys....

[thedoctor]

although i'm no fan of native american mascots, i think there is a distinction between a pro team using one and a college team using one. a pro team is a private business, so if it wants to go ahead and use a "hostile and abusive" image, that's its prerogative. but, a university that receives either state or federal funding should be held to a different standard, imo.

Edited February 27, 2007 by thedoctor

[longshot7]

Right. Chief Blackhawk was an actual person, and as long as the logo isn't a racist caricature (like the Jndians), it's okay. I have never heard one person complain about the Hawks for that reason.

 

Interesting to note that the current Atlanta Hawks started as a Blackhawks franchise named after the same person. He is still held in high regard by the residents of the Quad Cities, where they named a college after him among other things. From Wikipedia:

 

The franchise was formed in 1946 as the Tri-Cities Blackhawks (named after Tri-City native Black Hawk) of the National Basketball League; it was based in the tri-city area between Moline, Illinois, Rock Island, Illinois, and Davenport, Iowa (now called the Quad Cities). 1951, the franchise relocated to Milwaukee, Wisconsin and became the Hawks. In 1955, it moved to St. Louis and then in 1968, finally Atlanta.

[IlliniKrush]

 

for the straight guys....

I don't need sluts on the ice nor a mascot for an original 6 franchise. Leave that crap to expansion teams.

[RockRaines]

I don't need sluts on the ice nor a mascot for an original 6 franchise. Leave that crap to expansion teams.

And the white sox.