Flash Tizzle Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 (edited) Honestly, I'm not very upset his comments. The players Williams alludes to (with the exception of Iguchi) have risks associated with long term deals. I have to believe Wililams knows the embarrassing status of infielders in our minor league system. It'd be rather foolish to suggest market fluctations make signing Iguchi unrealistic when other options will garner similar contracts. I believe there's a reason for this. His name within the crop of FA's isn't excluded because, realistically, you can't single someone out. You can't say, "yeah, well we have replacements for Buehrle and Dye, so we're going to let them go. Iguchi, on the other hand, should be signed immediately." I know the season hasn't even begun, but how I look at 2008 is any additions made for our team should be made from free agency. I DO NOT want any more trades which further deplete the system. Hell, and if you people are upset now, wait until the discussions concerning Crede begin. Or the remainder of our veteran pitching staff. The best possible scenario which could emerge in future seasons is if Fields and another minor league arm take HUGE steps forward. Thus, making Crede and another starting pitcher expendable. Edited February 19, 2007 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 The thing I'm waiting for KW to explain is what is his plan going forward? The Sox are going to have a big payroll this year. So once everyone hits FA, are they just going to slash payroll and only have young players? That would upset me. Sox fans have responded since the WS year, and it wouldn't be fair for the Sox to cut payroll significantly after 07. Anyone know what the Sox will have on their books after this year? (taking into consdieration what the Philly is paying of Thome's) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(SoxFan562004 @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 07:03 PM) The thing I'm waiting for KW to explain is what is his plan going forward? The Sox are going to have a big payroll this year. So once everyone hits FA, are they just going to slash payroll and only have young players? That would upset me. Sox fans have responded since the WS year, and it wouldn't be fair for the Sox to cut payroll significantly after 07. I wouldn't worry about that.... If the Sox contend this year and draw a sizable amount of fans, I don't see how anyone can justify lowering the payroll. It's just an idea I can't comprehend. How do you even begin to explain it? Our organization would deserve to be crucified. Edited February 19, 2007 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 If we decided to cut payroll after this year I'd be a very pissed off fan. We've heard and saw for years that if we came out to the ballpark the payroll would correlate with that. Well more and more people are coming and all of a sudden payroll would go backwards? Fk that. I could understand on maybe letting go of the pitching since we supposedly have studs in our system now, but if we let go of our position players as well, we're rebuilding which would drive me nuts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 We'll still have a 100+ million budget. Who knows, how great would it be having Ichiro in LF and Sweeney in right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkokieSox Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Feb 19, 2007 -> 02:45 AM) I discussed Ichiro with Wite a few nights ago on AIM, and he makes too much sense for 2008. Maybe even a Mike Young for second... I'll take Tad there just as easy, batting behind Ichiro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 08:45 PM) I discussed Ichiro with Wite a few nights ago on AIM, and he makes too much sense for 2008. I'll be interested to see how we approach these next few seasons if a significant amount of money is available to spend. We're not going to be the only ballclub looking to sign Ichiro, that's for sure. There's always a change we may have to (gasp) overpay! Hopefully Williams realizes it may be necessary. Although, even with Ichrio, a potential OF of Sweeney/Anderson/Ichiro may not have 30 HR's between them. It would, of course, be acceptable if Crede were traded with Uribe, Fields promoted ot 3B, and Alex Rodriguez signed to play SS. Edited February 19, 2007 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaliciense1 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Well I wouldnt say fire him, but these things he is saying are not needed. He is making it seem like the Sox dont care about theyre players. I dont think these remarks can help us when it comes to signing free agents. Great players want long term deals and with these remarks KW is making it seem like Sox dont care for giving them out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan562004 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 07:11 PM) I wouldn't worry about that.... If the Sox contend this year and draw a sizable amount of fans, I don't see how anyone can justify lowering the payroll. It's just an idea I can't comprehend. How do you even begin to explain it? Our organization would deserve to be crucified. I agree with 100%. I don't see how the Sox can justify slashing payroll after this year. That just leaves me to wonder what KW's direction will be. He's going to have some cash after this season, with all his comments, I have no idea how he's going to spend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 11:06 AM) Why can't KW just shut the hell up? This "small" market whining is ridiculous after last season. I completely agree. I dont recall many other teams crying about $ every time they open their mouths. I'm sick of the stance this organization takes and I'm sick of his pompous attitude. Really, this team's stars are aging or will be gone after this year. Tell us what plan there is, other than to make millions of $, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 09:39 PM) Ichiro and Gooch would be a marketing dream. Just one of the many reasons Ichiro would make alot of sense for the Sox organization. -We are going to need a leadoff hitter -The OF situation right now is awful -It's possible a RF hole could open up with the subtraction of Dye -Ichiro has said he wants to be with a winning franchise -The Japanese connection of Gooch and Ichiro could do wonders for the Sox(Tad has to be brought back) -We are going to have $$$ money spend on something. I don't see it happening at all. Again, I think the Sox are gearing towards signing a Miguel Cabrera or Johan Santana or at least trying to. Ichiro is already older, isn't he? Isn't Iguchi going to be at least 33 by then as well? Not exactly guys you can build around. I think the Sox will resign Dye to a 3 year deal before they sign Ichiro. And the Sox won't be a winning franchise if they keep letting players go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 (edited) One drawback, if you could call it that, is Crede basically is untradeable. We can't afford to lose his production. As a result, Fields is either held back another year (which is unfair for him if he's producing,) traded, or brought on as a 4thOF. It'd be fine by me if Fields were placed in LF come 2008 with Anderson in CF, Ichiro in RF, and Sweeney as the 4th OF. Then come 2009, break the bank on Cabrera. QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 09:56 PM) I don't see it happening at all. Again, I think the Sox are gearing towards signing a Miguel Cabrera or Johan Santana or at least trying to. Ichiro is already older, isn't he? Isn't Iguchi going to be at least 33 by then as well? Not exactly guys you can build around. I think the Sox will resign Dye to a 3 year deal before they sign Ichiro. And the Sox won't be a winning franchise if they keep letting players go. I'm less worried about Ichiro because of the physical conditioning he puts himself through. It's also far more likely Ichiro is on our club than either of those two. What we'll need in future seasons is consistent production from the minors. Atleast three prospects in the rotation and three or more around the diamond. At which point, if our payroll remains 90+ million (which no one can predict) it may be feasible to expect a Cabrera or Santana. Edited February 19, 2007 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 My fearless prediction is that Ichiro, Santana, and Cabrera are not going to be White Sox. The Sox may in fact be saving money for a run at a big-name free agent (though I doubt it). But the Sox simply will not outbid other teams to bring in a player of that caliber. Those guys will sign huge longterm conracts, and all the sabermetricians on the web will say that the signing team "overpaid". Kenny Williams will not overpay, and the White Sox will be left with the satisfaction of being fiscally sensible, but not having any star players on the field (it's not like the farm system is going to produce an all-star). When A-Rod was free agent, I believe the Sox really did think they had a shot at signing him, but they absolutely wouldn't match Tom Hicks offer. I would expect similar scenarios this time around. It's pretty clear Williams is planning on following the example of Oakland. It's too bad the Sox don't have the farm system to pull that off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 10:11 PM) My fearless prediction is that Ichiro, Santana, and Cabrera are not going to be White Sox. The Sox may in fact be saving money for a run at a big-name free agent (though I doubt it). But the Sox simply will not outbid other teams to bring in a player of that caliber. Those guys will sign huge longterm conracts, and all the sabermetricians on the web will say that the signing team "overpaid". Kenny Williams will not overpay, and the White Sox will be left with the satisfaction of being fiscally sensible, but not having any star players on the field (it's not like the farm system is going to produce an all-star). When A-Rod was free agent, I believe the Sox really did think they had a shot at signing him, but they absolutely wouldn't match Tom Hicks offer. I would expect similar scenarios this time around. It's pretty clear Williams is planning on following the example of Oakland. It's too bad the Sox don't have the farm system to pull that off. That's....not fearless at all. Infact, I'll guaranteed you're wrong if we're in playoff contention these next several seasons. It'll take three/four year for recent changes within our minor league system to show promise. If it does at all. Tell me, how exactly does Williams field a contending ballclub? He doesn't overpay for mediocre talent; doesn't overpay for legitimate talent; and doesn't have a minor league system. Something obviously has to give. If several pitching prospects make it to the rotation, and two of Sweeney/Fields/Anderson consistently produce, more than enough is available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Pratt Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Johan Santana will not be a Chicago White Sox player. Cabrera? Ichiro? Maybe, hopefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 10:27 PM) Johan Santana will not be a Chicago White Sox player. Cabrera? Ichiro? Maybe, hopefully. As a pitcher, he'd probably be the least likely addition. Although if there's one player to break the "three year" rule concerning pitchers, it's him. It would, again, all have to depend on our farm system producing. We'd need over 20 million off our payroll for Cabrera/Santana and 15-17 million for Ichiro. Edited February 19, 2007 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 I know I'm quite the pessimist, but does it seem to others like there is a terrible aura surrounding this organization right now? It seems like it's going to get ugly during the season with the Buehrle contract talk, etc. I don't know if I'd call it a "terrible aura," but it's not a wise idea to tell Sox fans as spring training starts that 3 of the fans' favorites probably won't be White Sox next year. I mean letting them become free agents means the odds are quite slim we'll keep any of them. I'd be shocked if the Cards don't overpay for Mark B; I can see Dye leaving. For some reason I also think Iguchi will remain a Sox however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 QUOTE(SEALgep @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 08:18 PM) We'll still have a 100+ million budget. Who knows, how great would it be having Ichiro in LF and Sweeney in right? Ichiro will never play LF in the majors. His arm is way too strong for him to not play RF. And Ichiro would be amazing. It's a leadoff hitter, a huge draw, a hell of a defender, and he's a flat out great player, HoF caliber. You bring him in, and you are looking at one of the best defenses in the league to go along with a pretty solid OBP oriented lineup with some pop in the middle. I could really see a lineup of... Ichiro - RF Iguchi - 2B Thome - DH Konerko - 1B Pierzynski - C Fields - 3B Anderson - CF Sweeney - LF Uribe/someone else - SS or something similar to such in 08/09, and while it's probably not a 200 homer lineup, it's a lineup that may be able to put up a .340-.350 cumulative OBP, which flat out means runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank the Tank 35 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 I don't know if the FO would be willing to give JS as many years as other teams would... Miggy's the stuff of dreams, but a lot would have to happen for him to become a FA. If the Marlins get a stadium contract, MC gets signed longterm. If they don't get a stadium contract, he gets traded the July before he's a FA and is then signed longterm by his new team. The only logical situation where MC would become a FA would be if the Marlins didn't get a new stadium and were fighting for a playoff spot the year of his impending free agency. I can still dream though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 10:19 PM) That's....not fearless at all. Infact, I'll guaranteed you're wrong if we're in playoff contention these next several seasons. Well, if the Sox are in playoff contention then you'll be right and I'll be wrong -- Williams will almost certainly have to bring in free agent talent to contend in the AL Central in 2008 and beyond. All I'm saying is that the Sox refuse to shell out big money for players the caliber of Dye or Buehrle. So they must be "saving" for a big-name target. But I just do not see the Sox outbidding the Red Sox, Mets, Yankees, LAA, Dodgers, Toronto, or even Detroit for someone like Cabrera. One of those teams will go crazy and offer more money and years than the Sox. In the end, I think the Sox will "overpay" for mediocre talent, because that's all that they will be able to afford in the market. Their other option will be going with all homegrown players, and I think we can agree the results would be dismal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 10:39 PM) Ichiro - RF Iguchi - 2B Thome - DH Konerko - 1B Pierzynski - C Fields - 3B Anderson - CF Sweeney - LF Uribe/someone else - SS or something similar to such in 08/09, and while it's probably not a 200 homer lineup, it's a lineup that may be able to put up a .340-.350 cumulative OBP, which flat out means runs. I personally don't believe it'll happen, but if Fields/Anderson/Sweeny are on the same starting lineup (opening day) I'll fricken crap myself. What's appealing is ~24 million would be available from Dye/Crede/Buehrle departing. Even with Ichiro's addition, inevitable raises and perhaps an replacement at SS (if Uribe loses a few steps defensively) could be addressed. Edited February 19, 2007 by Flash Tizzle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 10:19 PM) That's....not fearless at all. Infact, I'll guaranteed you're wrong if we're in playoff contention these next several seasons. It'll take three/four year for recent changes within our minor league system to show promise. If it does at all. Tell me, how exactly does Williams field a contending ballclub? He doesn't overpay for mediocre talent; doesn't overpay for legitimate talent; and doesn't have a minor league system. Something obviously has to give. If several pitching prospects make it to the rotation, and two of Sweeney/Fields/Anderson consistently produce, more than enough is available. Eventually it will catch up with him, especially with Ozzie as our manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flash Tizzle Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Feb 18, 2007 -> 10:57 PM) All I'm saying is that the Sox refuse to shell out big money for players the caliber of Dye or Buehrle. So they must be "saving" for a big-name target. But I just do not see the Sox outbidding the Red Sox, Mets, Yankees, LAA, Dodgers, Toronto, or even Detroit for someone like Cabrera. One of those teams will go crazy and offer more money and years than the Sox. In the end, I think the Sox will "overpay" for mediocre talent, because that's all that they will be able to afford in the market. Their other option will be going with all homegrown players, and I think we can agree the results would be dismal. In the case of Cabrera, several events could really help us -- Anaheim or Los Angeles signing Crede and New York retaining Rodriguez. There are two options removed. Another when you consider Wright likely isn't going anywhere. Yet another if Detroit signs Inge long term. I'm just resting my hopes that various teams are more willing to fill their 3B woes immediately, and for extended contracts, rather than waiting on Cabrera. Hell, it may not be necessary to offer contracts to these players. Maybe by then we'll have our version of Cabrera, Santana, or Ichiro! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Do people really think we'd win a bidding war for Ichiro? For the amount of money he'll get, he won't be worth it. I think it's a lot more likely that the Cubs go all out for him, especially with Pinella as their manager. The biggest issue I have with KW right now is that he's acting like a whiner with the way the market is, and he's opening the organization up to a lot of backlash from our fans do to letting free agents go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted February 19, 2007 Share Posted February 19, 2007 Yeah, we mine as well start printing Ichiro's name on the back of the jerseys. There is no way this deal won't happen. On a similar note, does anyone know if the domain name of Ichirotalk.com has been registered yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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