Williams on Sox FA

[Flash Tizzle]

It would be a pretty boring message board if we all just applauded KW.

 

"Isnt KW brilliant?"

"Yeah, completely"

"Coundn't have said it better"

"What do we talk about now?"

"I don't know, maybe how great ozzie is?"

"Yeah he is great too"

"Totally"

 

*crickets chirping*

Reminds me another White Sox message board...

[knightni]

What Silly Internet place would that be?

[Dick Allen]

I don't know how many people on this board are out of school and work full-time...but many times I have heard someone go in and ask about raises and the response comes back, "You are free to look elsewhere."

 

AND, I would be happy if that were the case. That means they respect me. That doesn't say to me that they wouldn't match or exceed the offer, that says that they don't to limit me. Maybe that's optomistic, but so what? Sure, they could think I won't find anything better. Or, they'll just let me go because I'm replaceable. But, the decision is left up to me...the person who does the work.

 

Ya never know, I just might take less to stay, because I like it here. And I have no problem with Kenny being honest, as long as he told the players first before it went to the media.

While I don't work under a contract, if I asked for a raise and was told I was free to look elsewhere, and I went looking for a better paying position, if I had to go through the process of looking elsewhere and then got a better offer and my current employer said they would match it, I personally would tell him to f*** off. It would be an insult to me, a total lack of respect, that some place where I have invested a lot of time and effort would only pay me what I evidently was worth (if they are willing to match) if someone I hadn't worked for were to offer me more.

Edited February 19, 2007 by Dick Allen

[bigruss]

While I don't work under a contract, if I asked for a raise and was told I was free to look elsewhere, and I went looking for a better paying position, if I had to go through the process of looking elsewhere and then got a better offer and my current employer said they would match it, I personally would tell him to f*** off. It would be an insult to me, a total lack of respect, that some place where I have invested a lot of time and effort would only pay me if someone I hadn't worked for were to offer me more.

 

I must say that this is different, in that they have paid agents whose job is to find them the best price, and if the player wants to stay or even sign with a certain team, then they may not get the most money, hence the "hometown discount", but money isnt everything sometimes and some players like to go where they are comfortable, and some teams cant afford to give the best price out there for some players. It has to be a mutual agreement for it to work out and if that isnt the case then its better for the player and team to move on

[badatbest]

While I don't work under a contract, if I asked for a raise and was told I was free to look elsewhere, and I went looking for a better paying position, if I had to go through the process of looking elsewhere and then got a better offer and my current employer said they would match it, I personally would tell him to f*** off. It would be an insult to me, a total lack of respect, that some place where I have invested a lot of time and effort would only pay me what I evidently was worth (if they are willing to match) if someone I hadn't worked for were to offer me more.

 

I think generally if your current team matches the price of another team, the chances are they will stay with their current team. Spite is nice and everything, but not moving your family all over the place is nicer.

[Dick Allen]

I must say that this is different, in that they have paid agents whose job is to find them the best price, and if the player wants to stay or even sign with a certain team, then they may not get the most money, hence the "hometown discount", but money isnt everything sometimes and some players like to go where they are comfortable, and some teams cant afford to give the best price out there for some players. It has to be a mutual agreement for it to work out and if that isnt the case then its better for the player and team to move on

 

Of course its different, I was just responding to the post. Maybe what this means is the White Sox aren't going to offer contracts to their players, but if they come to the White Sox with some figures, those will be considered. I do think it would be a good idea to make every player you want to keep here for a while, know that is your wish. Usually when guys get to the free agent process, they go for the money, and who can blame them. One thing the White Sox could try with these guys, is to give them deals that kick in in 2007. They all are below market value this season, and the Sox seemingly should have some money to play with. Giving them a extra couple million in 2007 and then market value for 2 or 3 years following is a 3 or 4 year contract equivalent to a 2 or 3 year extension. Throw some sort of option on that, and a guy like Buerhle, if he is being straight with all of his comments, may take it.

 

 

I think generally if your current team matches the price of another team, the chances are they will stay with their current team. Spite is nice and everything, but not moving your family all over the place is nicer.

Most White Sox player's families don't live anywhere near Chicago.

[CanOfCorn]

While I don't work under a contract, if I asked for a raise and was told I was free to look elsewhere, and I went looking for a better paying position, if I had to go through the process of looking elsewhere and then got a better offer and my current employer said they would match it, I personally would tell him to f*** off. It would be an insult to me, a total lack of respect, that some place where I have invested a lot of time and effort would only pay me what I evidently was worth (if they are willing to match) if someone I hadn't worked for were to offer me more.

 

Shouldn't you do that anyway? I know I do. It makes sense to always look. And since there is a finite number of employers for these guys, I would imagine this is more prevalent than you think. It's not always about respect. It's about business. And if my employer was upfront with me...then what can I say? There are too many factors to say..."they're disrespecting me."

 

Again, at the end of the day, the White Sox are a business, not an XBox game. And it's prudent to see what's out there from both sides. HOw do we know that there isn't another 2005 Jermaine Dye out there? Someone a bit under the radar, but a big talent that won't command as much money? The 2005 White Sox were blessed that everything came together...that doesn't mean it's going to happen again...just look 10 miles to the north of 35th and Shields.

[Dick Allen]

Shouldn't you do that anyway? I know I do. It makes sense to always look. And since there is a finite number of employers for these guys, I would imagine this is more prevalent than you think. It's not always about respect. It's about business. And if my employer was upfront with me...then what can I say? There are too many factors to say..."they're disrespecting me."

 

Again, at the end of the day, the White Sox are a business, not an XBox game. And it's prudent to see what's out there from both sides. HOw do we know that there isn't another 2005 Jermaine Dye out there? Someone a bit under the radar, but a big talent that won't command as much money? The 2005 White Sox were blessed that everything came together...that doesn't mean it's going to happen again...just look 10 miles to the north of 35th and Shields.

The difference is they are under contract and supposedly can't look to see what's out there until that contract ends. I don't see where it is bad business to take advantage of exclusive negotiating rights for your better employees while you have them.

[southsider2k5]

What is our payroll for 2007 going to be?

 

I read a couple of weeks ago we had just under $105 million committed to 18 players. This doesn't count the cash from Vaz and Thome.

 

 

What good does drawing 2.9 million people, winning a WS, having more revenue than ever before if Reinsdorf wants to run this team like a mid-market team ?

 

We can't keep every free agent - to expect so would be unrealistic, but I think it's ridiculous to even put themselves in a position to lose your free agents like Williams seems willing to do.

 

I don't know that 2006 generated more revenue than 2005 did because there was no playoff money generated.

 

 

I completely agree. I dont recall many other teams crying about $ every time they open their mouths. I'm sick of the stance this organization takes and I'm sick of his pompous attitude.

 

Really, this team's stars are aging or will be gone after this year. Tell us what plan there is, other than to make millions of $, of course.

 

How many other teams do you follow every single thing that their GMs and executives talk about? There are plenty of teams who cry poor, the irony is that Hendry was one of them last year.

 

 

I know i will get blasted but it looking like JR is not going to spend the money!

 

mostly because you make outrageous statements and then disappear when people ask for proof.

 

 

It would be a pretty boring message board if we all just applauded KW.

 

"Isnt KW brilliant?"

"Yeah, completely"

"Coundn't have said it better"

"What do we talk about now?"

"I don't know, maybe how great ozzie is?"

"Yeah he is great too"

"Totally"

 

*crickets chirping*

 

Trust me, the opposite gets pretty boring too.

[Baines3]

It could be that KW is having them explore the free agent market so he can see what offers other teams will make.

 

At least that is what I am hoping. Don't know if KW would be crazy enough to let all 3 leave as FA's. I've seen the Sox do some unusual thing over the years though.

[CanOfCorn]

The difference is they are under contract and supposedly can't look to see what's out there until that contract ends. I don't see where it is bad business to take advantage of exclusive negotiating rights for your better employees while you have them.

 

They did with Buehrle...last ASB. Maybe it was lowball, but they tried. And, I think that after the Belle contract, Reinsdorf and the rest of the White Sox Board of Directors are leery of setting market value for anyone.

 

And honestly, again, I don't blame them. With what the Flubs, Giants and Mets have done in recent years...whew, I wouldn't want to set market rate. If Buehrle, Dye or any other Sox free agent can get more...more power to ya. The White Sox will be around a LOT longer than any of these players will be. We all rooted for the Southside Hitmen in the 70's (well, maybe just old folk), the Winning Ugly teams of the 80's, the Young Guns of the 90's and the Grinders of the 00's. And we will ALL root for the teams of the 10's, 20's, etc. This is one year, let's enjoy it and worry about next year, next year. We aren't the GM, we aren't the manager, let's see how they do before we crucify them.

 

Some b****ed about Magglio. Some b****ed about El Caballo. Etc. Etc. Etc. Foresight is NOT 20/20.

[bmags]

i just don't get one think. Kenny has cried about the irresponsibility in the spending the market has had this winter, why he would then let that irresponsible market set the price for our players?

[SleepyWhiteSox]

''It's nobody else. I have to point to myself and my inadequacies in the area of PR. Even as I say that, in my mind I'm saying, '[Expletive] that. The best PR is winning.'''

[badatbest]

I dont think KW is really that interested in bringing back Crede, Dye or Buehrle. Each has significant risk associated with a large, long term deal. I love each of those players but i'm not sure they are the people we want to depend on after this year.

 

I get the impression that KW is thinking that way and is using the bloated market as an excuse (to the fans and the players) for why they will not be coming back.

 

In a backwards way, he could be taking the high road here. I still say he talks too much though.

Edited February 19, 2007 by bad at best

[Flash Tizzle]

i just don't get one think. Kenny has cried about the irresponsibility in the spending the market has had this winter, why he would then let that irresponsible market set the price for our players?

It doesn't. Which I dismiss those who believe Williams is willing to have other set the market -- because it's ridiculous.

 

Honestly, people. Can you seriously believe Williams, who has voiced opposition to the inflated price of free agents, would do nothing about it but let similar events occur next season?

 

What exactly is wrong with "setting the market?" Something which I doubt would happen.

Edited February 19, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[Dick Allen]

They did with Buehrle...last ASB. Maybe it was lowball, but they tried. And, I think that after the Belle contract, Reinsdorf and the rest of the White Sox Board of Directors are leery of setting market value for anyone.

 

And honestly, again, I don't blame them. With what the Flubs, Giants and Mets have done in recent years...whew, I wouldn't want to set market rate. If Buehrle, Dye or any other Sox free agent can get more...more power to ya. The White Sox will be around a LOT longer than any of these players will be. We all rooted for the Southside Hitmen in the 70's (well, maybe just old folk), the Winning Ugly teams of the 80's, the Young Guns of the 90's and the Grinders of the 00's. And we will ALL root for the teams of the 10's, 20's, etc. This is one year, let's enjoy it and worry about next year, next year. We aren't the GM, we aren't the manager, let's see how they do before we crucify them.

 

Some b****ed about Magglio. Some b****ed about El Caballo. Etc. Etc. Etc. Foresight is NOT 20/20.

Negotiating a season and a half before he becomes a free agent with one of your marque players and that's it is not trying. If what we can expect is any White Sox player who performs well enough to be paid premium money and deserves "market rate" is that they will be getting paid by other teams, the White Sox in the future won't be the Cubs, Giants or the Mets. They will be the Pirates, Devil Rays and Royals. If the White Sox go bad, USCF unlike the Urinal, Shea or whatever they call that masterpiece is SF, will be a ghost town, full of tumbleweeds. I anticipate this season with as much excitement as any. For some reason this winter seems so much longer than others. I can't wait for real games. Even if they lost 100, which they haven't done in a very long time, I'd still watch just about every inning my wife would let me get away with. Its just much better when they are winning.

[southsider2k5]

It doesn't. Which I dismiss those who believe Williams is willing to have other set the market -- because it's ridiculous.

 

Honestly, people. Can you seriously believe Williams, who has voiced opposition to the inflated price of free agents, would do nothing about it but let similar events occur next season?

 

What exactly is wrong with "setting the market?" Something which I doubt would happen.

 

Ask Tom Hicks. They are still paying for "setting the market" to this day and beyond. Plus they don't even have the player they are paying for anymore.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Feb 19, 2007 -> 06:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ask Tom Hicks. They are still paying for "setting the market" to this day and beyond. Plus they don't even have the player they are paying for anymore.

Or Jim Hungry doing it with relievers starting with Dumpster and Eyre last year. I know he has had a hard on for Soriano for a long time but I think he's going to regret that deal.

[Flash Tizzle]

Ask Tom Hicks. They are still paying for "setting the market" to this day and beyond. Plus they don't even have the player they are paying for anymore.

Hicks overpaid for players commanding salaries and years beyond what Iguchi would receive.

 

How I look at this situation is this -- if Williams overpays for Iguchi, so be it. We have no one available to replace him. The other possible options, aside from Louis Castillo, don't sound very intriguing. Why even put yourself in a situation where it's possible Iguchi leaves. I believe we're playing roulette to save a million or so.

If we're worried about this with Dye and Buehrle leaving, well, that's just pathetic.

[LVSoxFan]

I dont think KW is really that interested in bringing back Crede, Dye or Buehrle. Each has significant risk associated with a large, long term deal. I love each of those players but i'm not sure they are the people we want to depend on after this year.

 

I get the impression that KW is thinking that way and is using the bloated market as an excuse (to the fans and the players) for why they will not be coming back.

 

In a backwards way, he could be taking the high road here. I still say he talks too much though.

 

I think you're on to something here. I see it as KW setting up his future defense for when they're all gone. "Oh well, they were just too damn expensive!" I understand that the Sox don't want to give multi-year obscene deals like the Zito contract, but it is beyond me why somebody like Iguchi is being considered in play.

 

Crede I know is gone because he's worth a lot more and there's that back thing. Plus they have a potential replacement for him already.

 

Dye I can see not giving a multi-year crazy deal, but is that what all players ask for?

 

But Iguchi? Come on! Gooch was the Great Experiment of 2005, the one who was a big risk that paid off handsomely. And paid off cheaply. Why we wouldn't just lock him up now... I don't get it.

 

Buehrle's a question mark. I think if they offer him something slightly more than previously but obviously not Zito-like, he might stay. A lot depends on his performance this year too obviously.

 

It's all been covered here but I really do think KW needs to keep this stuff private.

 

While KW is the businessman and has to view things in terms of dollars, we as fans don't view people such as Crede, Dye, Buehrle or Iguchi as payroll debits. There is no need to proactively start making them expendable, especially when the damn season hasn't even started yet.

 

PLEASE KW BE QUIET.

 

And I'm sorry: we'll always owe KW for 2005 and I appreciate it, I really do, but dude: you really, really love to hear yourself talk.

[Milkman delivers]

Or Jim Hungry doing it with relievers starting with Dumpster and Eyre last year. I know he has had a hard on for Soriano for a long time but I think he's going to regret that deal.

 

Howry.

[Flash Tizzle]

Or Jim Hungry doing it with relievers starting with Dumpster and Eyre last year. I know he has had a hard on for Soriano for a long time but I think he's going to regret that deal.

Paying for those relievers was necessary because their bullpen was absolutely terrible in 2005. I'm sure Hendry knew the unreliable nature of relief pitchers season to season; but he had to do what was necessary. Their failures last season certaintly didn't rest on the shoulders of the bullpen. A rotation of crap overworked Howry, Eyre and company.

 

I agree with you on Soriano. He wasn't exactly the missing piece for the Cubs entering this season. Especially with their powerful lineup and Felix Pie available shorty.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Feb 19, 2007 -> 07:11 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Paying for those relievers was necessary because their bullpen was absolutely terrible in 2005. I'm sure Hendry knew the unreliable nature of relief pitchers season to season; but he had to do what was necessary. Their failures last season certaintly didn't rest on the shoulders of the bullpen. A rotation of crap overworked Howry, Eyre and company.

 

I agree with you on Soriano. He wasn't exactly the missing piece for the Cubs entering this season. Especially with their powerful lineup and Felix Pie available shorty.

Those guys sucked (which I why I didn't mentioned Howary) and Scott Eyre has gone on record saying that he and his agent had a set price, and Jim Hendry went over it on the first offer, so they jumped at it.

 

I can't believe Farnsworth got $18 million, 3 years. Bradford and Baez got three year deals too.

[TheBigHurt]

I hope we don't become the next Kansas City Royals.

[witesoxfan]

I hope we don't become the next Kansas City Royals.

 

you have to be kidding