Interesting trade idea

[SoxFan1]

southside, you are not by yourself. Zambrano is a future ace. He is a mix of a young Colon and Brown. Like I pointed out the thing that I like most about him is that he is a sinker/groundball pitcher. Only 4 HR's in 97 innings and 12 DP's is amazing. His stuff is electric and he just turned 22 so he is probably only going to get better. He is a workhorse as well. For the 2nd straight start in a row(for him) the Cubs bullpen was worn out and he eat up innings while keeping his team in it. That is the kind of pitcher you love to have on your staff. Lets face the facts, the chances that the Sox sign Colon is slim to none so trading him for Zambrano would be a great trade any way you slice it(much better then compensation via draft picks). To be honest with you I would do that trade even if the Sox had Colon signed for another year after this. The only problem is that there is no way that the Cubs would give up this kid. Cruz maybe, Zambrano no way.

Wow whitesox61382, you basically just said the EXACt same thing you said earlier!

[Jim Fainter]

Since Juan Cruz was sent down to AAA, he has had 4 starts, is 2-0, 1.66 ERA, 21 innings, 13 hits, 20 K's.

 

I wish I had some remote idea what the Cubs would be willing to give up for Valentine.

 

Regarding their other top pitching prospect, Angel Guzman, we should be able to get a good scouting report on him, because he plays in the same league as Birmingham.

[southsider2k5]

Since Juan Cruz was sent down to AAA, he has had 4 starts, is 2-0, 1.66 ERA, 21 innings, 13 hits, 20 K's. 

 

I wish I had some remote idea what the Cubs would be willing to give up for Valentine.

 

Regarding their other top pitching prospect, Angel Guzman, we should be able to get a good scouting report on him, because he plays in the same league as Birmingham.

I gotta imagine that if the Cubs were willing to give up some of their top pitching prospects that they would already have Lowell.

[whitesox61382]

Wow whitesox61382, you basically just said the EXACt same thing you said earlier!

I thought saying it twice would help get the point across and it appears like it did because people like you read it twice.

[upnorthsox]

Since Juan Cruz was sent down to AAA, he has had 4 starts, is 2-0, 1.66 ERA, 21 innings, 13 hits, 20 K's. 

 

I wish I had some remote idea what the Cubs would be willing to give up for Valentine.

 

Regarding their other top pitching prospect, Angel Guzman, we should be able to get a good scouting report on him, because he plays in the same league as Birmingham.

Yes, was wondering how he was doing. Rex???

[MnSoxFan]

Guzman has a ERA in mid 2's if I recall after a real nice last start. Not getting many decisions, I think he is only 2-2.

[upnorthsox]

Thanks MSF.

[Rex Hudler]

Since Juan Cruz was sent down to AAA, he has had 4 starts, is 2-0, 1.66 ERA, 21 innings, 13 hits, 20 K's. 

 

I wish I had some remote idea what the Cubs would be willing to give up for Valentine.

 

Regarding their other top pitching prospect, Angel Guzman, we should be able to get a good scouting report on him, because he plays in the same league as Birmingham.

Yes, was wondering how he was doing. Rex???

Is my work never done?? lol

 

Guzman is currently 3-3 with an ERA of 2.81. He has had two bad outings (4 ER in 5 IP and 6 ER in 3 IP). Other than those two he has not allowed more than 3 ER in any start.

 

He has started twice against the Barons, both at the Hoover Met, both no decisions. The first outing, he allowed 12 hits in 6 innings, but only 2 runs, both earned. You could see the talent he had, but the Barons still hit him hard. The Barons ended up winning 7-6 in 12 innings.

 

His second start he was much better. He pitched 8 innings and gave up 6 hits, one run (earned) and gave up one BB and struck out 8. He looked very dominant and was very impressive. He throws hard and has a good breaking ball. I don't recall much of a changeup, but he could have thrown 8-10 of them and I just wasn't paying that close attention. (I have a tendency to yap at games)

 

In his last 5 starts (since the 6 ER outing), he has pitched 35 2/3 innings with an ERA of 1.01. He has struck out 37 and walked 7 in those 5 outings. My guess is he may not be in AA much longer.

 

That enough Jim and UNS??

[Rex Hudler]

Oh and lastly, he 21 (22 in December) and is 6-2 180. Not sure about his favorite color or favorite ice cream favor....

[whitesox247]

I happened to be thinking yesterday of what the Cubs would think of with this package.  Jose Valentin and Bartolo Colon to the Cubs (Or Mark Buehrle) and the Sox get Carlos Zambrono and Juan Cruz or that Guzman kid in return. 

 

I was also thinking that since the Cubs have fallen out of favor with Bobby Hill that he could be had for Jose Valentin and a reliever.  Although this would be a very tough sell.

Done deal in 1/4 of a heartbeat.

 

But that deal aint happening. Just think about it, why would anyone trade 2 stud young pitchers for a DH (Valentin) and Colon? Besides, I dont see that big of a deal ever happening between these two crosstown rivalries.

[Texsox]

I happened to be thinking yesterday of what the Cubs would think of with this package.  Jose Valentin and Bartolo Colon to the Cubs (Or Mark Buehrle) and the Sox get Carlos Zambrono and Juan Cruz or that Guzman kid in return. 

 

I was also thinking that since the Cubs have fallen out of favor with Bobby Hill that he could be had for Jose Valentin and a reliever.  Although this would be a very tough sell.

Done deal in 1/4 of a heartbeat.

 

But that deal aint happening. Just think about it, why would anyone trade 2 stud young pitchers for a DH (Valentin) and Colon? Besides, I dont see that big of a deal ever happening between these two crosstown rivalries.

I can't even think of a cross town trade that involved any starters? Has there been one?

[Jim Fainter]

George Bell for Sammy Sooser.

[BrandoFan]

While they are doing very well in their respective leagues (AA, high- and low-A), Guzman, Brownlie and Sisco are WAY overrated, especially the former two, and will NEVER do anything remotely close to what lottery high picks Prior and Wood may end up doing.

 

They are as likely to "dominate" the majors as Diaz, Pacheco and Rauch. 30% chance at best.

 

Arrogant Cubbie fans need to be humbled at some point. Zambrano is pitching over his head and all of the sudden they think their scouts have found a magical way to discover Big Talents? Bwa! How soon do we forget Foster, Jeremi Gonzalez, Quevedo, Zuleta, Kelton, Bobby Hill and dozens of others just in the last 4 years....

[Jim Fainter]

Brando, Kelton is still a pretty good prospect, isn't he?

[Chisoxfn]

How can you guys not like Zambrano? The only problem the kid has is his control. He is a sinker ball pitcher, which I love because it usually means few HR's and a lot of DP's. Sure enough the kid has only given up 4 HR's in 97 innings of work and 12 DP's, not to mention an ERA under 3. His stuff is electric and he is a workhorse. I think the comparison to a young Colon is very accurate. The kid just turned 22 and going to get better. I would love to see the Sox get their hands on this kid, but it isn't going to happen. They will trade Cruz before they trade Zambrano. In order to get Zambrano the Sox would probably have to give up Crede along with Colon(and that still might not be enough to get him). Its scary how talented some of these young Cubs pitchers are. From what I here that Guzman kid in the minors might turn out to be the best in the bunch. How come the Sox pitchers can't live up to the hype built up for them in the minors?

I saw Guzman pitch in spring training against the sox and boy did he have dynamite stuff. Not only did he have the stuff, but he really seemed to have a good feel for the game and good control of his pitches. He pitched awesome against the Sox that day and flashed a good mixture of pitches, but what really stood out in my mind was a big breaking curveball.

 

I think Zambrono could be had, maybe if somehow you get Lee involved (Not sure if they'd consider playing him at 3rd though), but to me if you deal Colon you could get Carlos for him. Cubs would reup with Colon, let Matt Clement walk and fill someone else in.

 

It would be risky, but a top 3 in the playoffs of Prior, Wood and Colon would be whicked.

[Chisoxfn]

Just saw someone mention this, and was curious what other people thought.

 

Albert Pujols to the Cubs for Mark Prior.

I wouldn't do it if I were the Cubs. Stud pitching beats Stud hitting.

 

I do think thats as fair as it would get though. I don't think there could be any straight up trade that would be closer.

 

I happened to be thinking yesterday of what the Cubs would think of with this package. Jose Valentin and Bartolo Colon to the Cubs (Or Mark Buehrle) and the Sox get Carlos Zambrono and Juan Cruz or that Guzman kid in return.

 

I was also thinking that since the Cubs have fallen out of favor with Bobby Hill that he could be had for Jose Valentin and a reliever. Although this would be a very tough sell.

I wouldn't want Bobby Hill and Scott Borass on the southside. We already had the disaster of drafting that no talent ass clown. No thank you.

Well, I want to find a way to get Carlos Zambrono. I'd love having him on our pitching staff. He's a younger, cheaper Bartolo Colon in a sense. He has an amazing arm and is a workhorse. Plus throw in Cruz and you get two dynamite arms.

 

I think if the Sox gave the Cubs a hitter or two and Colon they could lure some damn good players.

This might put me on and Island by myself but all things considered (current contract situations etc..) but if the Cubs called and offered Carlos Zambrano for Bartolo Colon, I would do it in a heart beat. And if they wanted to add in Juan Cruz for Jose Valentin I would do it twice as quick.

I'd do it. I'd do Carlos for Bartolo straight up simply because I believe he is a cheaper, younger version of Bartolo and I actually think he has better stuff.

 

I do think Jose will fetch the Sox something decent, if they package him right. Cubs could have some interest in Wunsch. I know their pen has been solid, but a damn good lefty (Meaning they could dump Guthrie and have Remlinger and Wunsch) would really make them good.

[Chisoxfn]

I gotta imagine that if the Cubs were willing to give up some of their top pitching prospects that they would already have Lowell.

They won't go after Lowell because the Fish are asking for Guzman, Cruz, and another top pitching prospect or one of their young relievers at the major league level.

[Chisoxfn]

While they are doing very well in their respective leagues (AA, high- and low-A), Guzman, Brownlie and Sisco are WAY overrated, especially the former two, and will NEVER do anything remotely close to what lottery high picks Prior and Wood may end up doing.

 

They are as likely to "dominate" the majors as Diaz, Pacheco and Rauch. 30% chance  at best.

 

Arrogant Cubbie fans need to be humbled at some point.  Zambrano is pitching over his head and all of the sudden they think their scouts have found a magical way to discover Big Talents?    Bwa!  How soon do we forget Foster, Jeremi Gonzalez, Quevedo, Zuleta, Kelton, Bobby Hill and dozens of others just in the last 4 years....

Out of all those names in the bottom, only Bobby Hill was hyped.

[Rex Hudler]

I gotta imagine that if the Cubs were willing to give up some of their top pitching prospects that they would already have Lowell.

They won't go after Lowell because the Fish are asking for Guzman, Cruz, and another top pitching prospect or one of their young relievers at the major league level.

They will go after Lowell because the price will go down the closer we get to the trading deadline. They may not make the deal or someone else may beat them to it, but the2y certainly will keep talking. The only thing that may keep the Marlins from dealing Lowell is if the Marlins find their way back into the race.

[Rex Hudler]

While they are doing very well in their respective leagues (AA, high- and low-A), Guzman, Brownlie and Sisco are WAY overrated, especially the former two, and will NEVER do anything remotely close to what lottery high picks Prior and Wood may end up doing.

 

They are as likely to "dominate" the majors as Diaz, Pacheco and Rauch. 30% chance  at best.

 

Arrogant Cubbie fans need to be humbled at some point.  Zambrano is pitching over his head and all of the sudden they think their scouts have found a magical way to discover Big Talents?    Bwa!  How soon do we forget Foster, Jeremi Gonzalez, Quevedo, Zuleta, Kelton, Bobby Hill and dozens of others just in the last 4 years....

What do you base your opinion on that they are way overrated? Have you ever seen any of them pitch? You may be right that they may never approach the success that Prior and Wood will end up having, but who does??

[witesoxfan]

Has anyone considered that if we did trade Colon for Zambrano(and what not else), that the Cubs rotation would be Colon, Wood, Prior, Clement, and Estes?

 

Do you realize that if the Cubs win the series before us, we are royally f***ed? I could care less if we got Zambrano, Cruz, Guzman, Patterson, and who not else. We would be forgotten.

[BrandoFan]

Do you realize that if the Cubs win the series before us, we are royally f***ed? I could care less if we got Zambrano, Cruz, Guzman, Patterson, and who not else. We would be forgotten

 

It would help if White Sox won it before the Red Sox, but it's 100 times more important to beat the Cubbies to the punch.

 

And every real Sox fan who "also likes" the Cubs should be aware of such simple truth.

[Chisoxfn]

Has anyone considered that if we did trade Colon for Zambrano(and what not else), that the Cubs rotation would be Colon, Wood, Prior, Clement, and Estes?

 

Do you realize that if the Cubs win the series before us, we are royally f***ed?  I could care less if we got Zambrano, Cruz, Guzman, Patterson, and who not else.  We would be forgotten.

I don't care if the Cubs win if it helps us as well. But thats because I have nothing against the Cubs. I typically root for them unless they are playing the Sox.

[BrandoFan]

Has anyone considered that if we did trade Colon for Zambrano(and what not else), that the Cubs rotation would be Colon, Wood, Prior, Clement, and Estes?

 

Do you realize that if the Cubs win the series before us, we are royally f***ed?  I could care less if we got Zambrano, Cruz, Guzman, Patterson, and who not else.  We would be forgotten.

I don't care if the Cubs win if it helps us as well. But thats because I have nothing against the Cubs. I typically root for them unless they are playing the Sox.

What that is, my friend, is heresy of the first order.

 

 

(I ain't kidding either. As an admin, what kind of an example are you setting? Shame.)

[BrandoFan]

I don't care if the Cubs win if it helps us as well. But thats because I have nothing against the Cubs. I typically root for them unless they are playing the Sox

 

But, you see, there's the rub:

 

The two teams are connected/co-dependant in more ways than one: if Cubs somehow pull a 2002Angels on us--and with their 1-3 pitching they may very well do it especially if they get Lowell---you can pretty much stick a fork in the White Sox. Forever.

 

You think I am dramatizing/exaggerating? Look at our fanbase, market share, media dynamic and more importantly baseball history....I will go as far as to say if Sox don't make it to the ALCS in 2003 and are forced to WhiteFlag2.0 it, this franchise is in deep trouble. Add to it (heavens forbid!) a Magical Summer and the WSChampionship on the North Side....scaaaaaaaaarrrrrryyyyyyyyy.