Would somebody explain something to me??

[whitesoxfan101]

I can't remember if I posted a thread like this yet this offseason, and if I did, I don't care because it needs to be said again. I have a question folks, and keep in mind how negative I normally am. WHY ARE SO MANY SOX FANS IN A STATE OF PANIC??

 

We didn't have a firesale folks, in fact, our payroll is still over 100 million and a couple million dollars higher. We have 4/5 of our starting rotation back, and the one starter that is one is a soon to be 31 year old, in the last year of his deal, with 1,700 innings on his arm, stuff that is getting worse at a terrifying rate, and who was 13-9 with a 5.02 ERA as of September 12th of last year. That is AWFUL kids, AWFUL. He was a bad pitcher for over 5 months. All the "OMG he won 17 games" crap is pure hinsight. Yeah, he won 4 straight starts and lowered his ERA to a gaudy 4.53 (league average) in the process, starts that came AFTER we were just about dead. Where was it when we weren't dead Freddy? And of course, those 4 starts were against offensive juggernauts Seattle and LA, as well as a Detroit team that couldn't hit in the 2nd half and at Minnesota, AFTER we were eliminated.

 

Also, our bullpen is a lot better, our entire lineup is back, we got a catcher that actually can hit lefties, we got Erstad, who although not great, will be better than Pods or the 2006 version of Brian Anderson if he stays healthy, and 3 very good arms in Masset, Danks, and Gio (although they might not help this year, outside of Masset perhaps), plus who knows about Floyd. Ryan Sweeney is a year older, Josh Fields is a year older, and Charlie Haeger is a year older.

 

Maybe I'm just being a big homer here, but I feel good about this team. IMO, although we enter 2007 with more questions than we had entering 2006, we have LESS questions entering 2007 than we did 2005. Combine that with Detroit's old, bad offense and the reality that Todd Jones and Kenny Rogers are both 100, and the fact that Liriano and Radke are out of comission (plus, are Jason Barlett, Jason Tyner, and Nick Punto going to REALLY hit that well again)? and I actually feel really good about 2007.

Edited February 20, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[witesoxfan]

it's quite likely that most of the pen won't have proven anything at all going into the season, but I like it regardless. And I also agree with everything you have mentioned and have been preaching it for months now.

 

You didn't mention the Indians though. They are the team that the Sox should be concerned with as far as I'm concerned. Both Minnesota and Detroit will be good, but I think both are going to come down a little this year, especially Detroit. I just don't think they can be nearly as good coming off of a World Series hangover and the mediocre discipline of that offense.

[Kalapse]

I signed up for an MLB.tv Premium Account today, I've been watching some games from last season and I must say I forgot just how good this team was in the first half of last season even when the starting pitching wasn't doing jack s***. I'm really not all that worried about 2007.

[EvilJester99]

The one thought I keep coming back to is the pitching staff was nothing short of terrible and yet they still managed to win 90 games...now think if the starters can actually pitch well this season. Not to mention I believe the bullpen is much improved.

[witesoxfan]

I signed up for an MLB.tv Premium Account today, I've been watching some games from last season and I must say I forgot just how good this team was in the first half of last season even when the starting pitching wasn't doing jack s***. I'm really not all that worried about 2007.

 

it seems to me that it's all about Thome putting up huge numbers and getting on base consistently.

 

The on-base part is self-explanatory, but I mention Thome because as great as Dye was all year, he couldn't be the difference maker in the lineup, whereas when Thome was tearing the cover off of the ball in the first half, the lineup was easily the best in the league.

[badatbest]

I think the short answer to that question is that we finished 3rd last year and we had a decidedly unsexy offseason. We traded away 2 good starters and didnt pick up any names (sheffield, soriano, etc) to fill problem areas. On the surface it makes me cringe.

 

 

On reflection though, i personally didnt want any of the big names out there. We have enough starting pitching, a better (though somewhat unproven) bullpen and i expect better offensive production from CF, LF and SS this year. I think we will be very competitive; though i understand why some people fret.

[StrangeSox]

The big "?" at the 5-spot is what has me worried.

[witesoxfan]

The big "?" at the 5-spot is what has me worried.

 

dont worry about that at all. There's actually talent in the minor leagues this time as opposed to the previous years where there was a blackhole of a 5 spot. I mean, if you're depending upon Mike Porzio or Josh Stewart, you were SOL to start. The Sox have Danks in the minors who could be ready to be an adequate 5th starter by midseason with the potential for way more.

[jackie hayes]

I'm not as worried as some, but there are some reasons.

 

Freddy was bad for much of last year, but Gavin Floyd was worse. I am concerned about this. Now, you don't need a 5th starter with a 4 era, 170 k, etc. But a 7 era (Floyd's current career average) will not get it done. Obviously this is based on a small sample, but it's not as if he's recently pitched well in the minors, either. He hasn't pitched well at any level since 2004, in AA and a small stint in the majors. I am also one of those who believes Coop is a mere mortal. So, we'll see.

 

I've heard in response to this that our fifth starters weren't world-beaters in 2005, and that's true. But, they were probably just a bit below league average, not miles below, as Floyd HAS been. And the rest of the staff and the pen was just sick. We aren't likely to see that level again, and we certainly can't count on it. Our fifth starter(s -- oh, please, not too plural) will get almost as many starts as any other slot. It's not a small piece of the puzzle.

 

Who knows what Buehrle will look like? The guy was beyond awful in the second half. And like every Sox fan, I thought he'd break out of it every single turn. I think he'll break out of it now -- but obviously I was wrong for months, before.

 

I'm a big fan of the bullpen, so I won't quibble there. Though I'd be much happier if Sisco starts in the minors, both for his development and because I'm a little leery of a 7+ era in the pen.

 

The outfield is a big concern. Two unproductive china dolls are set to get much of the time there. Anderson HAS to hit better. Even though I think he can, I really doubt that he'll get the chance.

 

All that given, I will give KW the benefit of the doubt. He's outguessed me with his pitcher deals more often than not. But I don't think it's hard to understand why someone would be concerned.

[badatbest]

Also i think the people that are really freaking out had certain expectations of this offseason, i know i did. Namely:

 

1. Upgrade in LF

2. Find a SS that doesnt hit .236

3. Trade one of our starters to make room for McCarthy.

4. Improve the bullpen

 

The offseason didnt pan out quite like i envisioned; i still think we are a good team (maybe an improved team) that will be there in the hunt come September.

[Jordan4life_2007]

I think Kenny said it best: The '06 team underachieved in every single way imaginable and still won 90 games in the best division in baseball. This team didn't need some massive overhaul. Just a few tweaks in certain areas.

 

I'll list the 5 things in order that, IMO, have to happen for the White Sox to get back to the playoffs:

 

Starting pitching: The single biggest reason we failed to make it last year. What was supposed to be our biggest strength turned into a weakness. They're a lot of reasons to believe the starting pitching will be better in 2007. If only due to the fact they'll all have had a full off-season of R&R. Gavin Floyd is a big question mark. But if the other four pitch to their capablities, we should be able to get by with inconsistency in that spot (I'm hoping Floyd makes Kenny look like a genius and actually pitches like he's capable).

 

Scott Podsednik: Say what you want about him, but we were at our best in 2005 when he was at his best. I don't think it's any coincidence that our only losing month in '05 was when he was on the DL for most of it. Pods was just bad last year. Real, real bad. We simply cannot afford another season like last year from him. Especially when I feel guys like Sweeney, and especially Owens, simply aren't ready yet. We don't need Pods to be prime Rickey Henderson. We just need something along the lines of 2005 (save August). He's done it before, he can do it again.

 

Bullpen: What is there to say? Brilliant in '05. Not so brilliant in '06. I love our backend. It's as good as any in baseball, IMO. Our main problem in '06 was middle relief. Enter in 3 of Aardsma, Sisco, Masset and Logan. The first three possess live arms that can definitely bring the HEAT. Aardsma and Sisco have already had some success at the major-league level. And you can't help but get excited when KW says Masset's stuff is just a tick below Bobby Jenks'. Logan should be better, if only because he's a little more seasoned and experienced. His stuff is good enough.

 

Uribe and Anderson: They were really, really, really bad most of last year. It was almost like having the pitcher hit twice in a row. Uribe has no excuse. He's just hard-headed and chooses not to listen. He's got to be more disciplined. I want to believe Anderson's struggles were simply due to him being a rookie and not quite adjusting to the big-league level right away. We've seen guys like Crede and Garland, guys who struggled at first, become stars. Let's hope the same applies to Anderson.

 

Ozzie Guillen: The guy is a great manager, but he can be his own worst enemy at times. For this season, just STFU and manage. Leave all the other BS alone. I think he became a distraction at times. Also, he has to be quicker to pull guys when they're struggling. If it's clear as day Mark doesn't have it after 4 innings, yank him. If it's obvious Javy is on the verge of one of his 5th-inning meltdowns, see ya. If Pods starts out 3 for 36 again, bench his ass.

Edited February 20, 2007 by Jordan4life_2007

[DBAHO]

I always go into any season with an open frame of mind. You never know what you're going to get with anything. Look at the Tigers last season, did anyone expect them to win the American League? Hell no.

 

There are questions with this team, but aren't there questions for every team?

 

It's a matter of which team can negate their weaknesses and outweigh them with the positives.

 

For us, that comes down to the pitching, and that's what's going to determine if we're a 85 win club, or a team that wins the division.

 

That hasn't changed from the 1st day of the off-season until now. Have we fixed it? I don't know, we've brought in some new guys, but it depends on our 4 starters who have returned to pick it up in 07, from their performances in 06, simple as that.

 

If they can't, we don't have much of a chance at all.

[EvilJester99]

Mostly I want to see this team manufacture runs again and not be the softball team waiting on the 3 run homer again...

[TLAK]

Mostly I want to see this team manufacture runs again and not be the softball team waiting on the 3 run homer again...

Spot on. My keys are:

 

Aggressive

 

Team

 

Baseball

 

The White Sox have to force the issue on both sides of the ball. ST will be interesting, I'll be looking for signs that the vets are into the games, guys like Crede. To an extent, last year I got the vibe that each one thought if he only put up his 'numbers' the winning would take care of itself.

[shipps]

The White Sox have to force the issue on both sides of the ball.

And with whom are we going to force the issue with?There isnt any team speed.We are gonna be a station to station team and thats it. Edited February 20, 2007 by shipps

[TLAK]

And with whom are we going to force the issue with?There isnt any team speed.We are gonna be a station to station team and thats it.

With every player on the team. Even Kong and Thome should go for second on a throw home after a single. Dye can charge a ground ball single to keep a runner on first from going to 3rd. Aggressive doesn't mean the '82 Cardinals, it means taking advantage of your opportunities and denying them to the other guys. Most of all it means not taking plays off. Its a mind set.

[shipps]

With every player on the team. Even Kong and Thome should go for second on a throw home after a single. Dye can charge a ground ball single to keep a runner on first from going to 3rd. Aggressive doesn't mean the '82 Cardinals, it means taking advantage of your opportunities and denying them to the other guys. Most of all it means not taking plays off. Its a mind set.

Thats the problem.Its only a mind set.In 05 they kept on saying we are winning because were playing Ozzie ball.We were still station to station except for Pods .You either have the talent to have aggressive play or you dont.We dont,we have power and gap hitters.

Edited February 20, 2007 by shipps

[The Critic]

I'm not as worried as some, but there are some reasons.

 

Freddy was bad for much of last year, but Gavin Floyd was worse. I am concerned about this. Now, you don't need a 5th starter with a 4 era, 170 k, etc. But a 7 era (Floyd's current career average) will not get it done. Obviously this is based on a small sample, but it's not as if he's recently pitched well in the minors, either. He hasn't pitched well at any level since 2004, in AA and a small stint in the majors. I am also one of those who believes Coop is a mere mortal. So, we'll see.

 

I've heard in response to this that our fifth starters weren't world-beaters in 2005, and that's true. But, they were probably just a bit below league average, not miles below, as Floyd HAS been. And the rest of the staff and the pen was just sick. We aren't likely to see that level again, and we certainly can't count on it. Our fifth starter(s -- oh, please, not too plural) will get almost as many starts as any other slot. It's not a small piece of the puzzle.

 

Who knows what Buehrle will look like? The guy was beyond awful in the second half. And like every Sox fan, I thought he'd break out of it every single turn. I think he'll break out of it now -- but obviously I was wrong for months, before.

 

I'm a big fan of the bullpen, so I won't quibble there. Though I'd be much happier if Sisco starts in the minors, both for his development and because I'm a little leery of a 7+ era in the pen.

 

The outfield is a big concern. Two unproductive china dolls are set to get much of the time there. Anderson HAS to hit better. Even though I think he can, I really doubt that he'll get the chance.

 

All that given, I will give KW the benefit of the doubt. He's outguessed me with his pitcher deals more often than not. But I don't think it's hard to understand why someone would be concerned.

 

These are some of my concerns. I have others:

The rotation doesn't have any wiggle room to absorb any regression or "off-years" from anyone. In fact, the Sox are counting on improvements from Buerhle, Vazquez and whoever lands the 5th slot. The rotation candidates in the minors are unproven and there's no rail-thin savior waiting in the wings anymore.

 

The offense seems even more bash-reliant than ever if Podsednik and his base-stealing potential are out for any length of time. Erstad, Uribe, and Anderson are all question marks offensively going into the season. Any sort of injury time lost by Thome or Dye can be devastating, and they both have some degree of injury history.

 

The bullpen is young, largely unproven and fairly similar in style. I also happen to agree that they'll be better than last year, but it's hardly a given.

 

I don't want to seem TOO down on a team that has the talent level the White Sox have, but to not recognize the concerns seems a little "Santo-ish" to me.

[Texsox]

the difference with this team making the playoffs or not will be luck, effort, and momentum, they have the talent.

[WHITESOXRANDY]

I hope I'm wrong but i don't expect the Sox to make the playoffs. They have a very good team amd ofcourse will have another winning season but the Tigers are real good and Cleveland and Minny are tough. K.C. has improved. The division is so damn tough. And, the Yanks and Red Sox should both make the playoffs as usual(unlike last year) so that makes it all tough on the Sox.

 

Improvements are: adding Hall will be very helpful and the bullpen looks like it could be excellent.

 

Big problems are: the fifth starter - if anyone thinks that the Sox have a pitcher that will be as good as Garcia last year, they're dreaming. Floyd is crap and the others aren't ready. I don't understand why so many think that every 5th game doesn't count in the standings like the rest of them ? And, the outfield situation isn't good especially if Anderson doesn't take a big step forward. I have a feeling that Pods will not be healthy enough to be what he was in 2005 and Erstad is little help. IMO, if the Sox can't get the Pods of 2005 they would have been better off with a big hitter in left field.

 

Like I said, I hope I'm wrong.

Edited February 20, 2007 by WHITESOXRANDY

[effectivelywild]

The thing is, pretty much every team has question marks going into each spring training. Yeah, we got a lot of them---Will our starting five show up this year? What's our new hard-throwing bullpen gonna give us? How about those positions of LF, SS, and CF?---but I think we're in decent shape. I like the new look-bullpen, and frankly, when you look at how bad we were, offensively, at LF, SS, and CF, it's hard to imagine that at least two of those three couldn't show significant improvement. And maybe the other one will just fall by the wayside, I don't know.

That being said, we'll need some breaks to go our way for a successful run to the post-season, but who doesn't?

[CanOfCorn]

I'm not too worried about the 5th starter. Floyd has gone from the pressure of being the savior of the Phillies rotation for years to come, to maaayyyybe being the 5th starter on the White Sox AND with other pitchers breathing down his neck. Now, if he doesn't show anything...then you send him down.

 

Bullpen is a lot of heat, but a lot of question marks. I've seen Aardsma pitch in college and if he can harness his pitches, he's lights out. He shut down Stanford in '03.

 

I think Erstad is a great pickup. Not necessarily because of his play, but because of his attitude. Yeah, he may hurt himself on a play, but it's not pulling up lame lollygagging to first or falling out of a hot tub. It's because he goes all out to catch a fly. Or pulls a hammy trying to stretch a double to a triple. So, even if he's out for an extended period of time, I can see him on the other players to hustle. I don't know if that's true, that's just the kind of player he seems to be.

 

And like someone else said, aggressive doesn't have to be team speed. Aggressive is going first to third or second to home. It's taking someone out at 2nd to prevent a double play. It's seeing a pitcher ignoring you and stealing second, even if you aren't the fastest person on the field. It's running over the catcher on a close play at the plate. It's throwing a little chin music to someone crowding the plate. All aggressive, all not having much to do with speed.

[RockRaines]

The big "?" at the 5-spot is what has me worried.

that really didnt hurt us in 2005. I expect whoever it is to at least do as well as El Duque

[NorthSideSox72]

that really didnt hurt us in 2005. I expect whoever it is to at least do as well as El Duque

Exactly what I was thinking, and people forget that. Our #5 from 2005 finished the season 9-9, 5.12. And we had the best starting staff in baseball (or very close). As long as Floyd or whomever can do that and stay healthy, I'm not overly concerned about that 5th slot.

[fathom]

With every player on the team. Even Kong and Thome should go for second on a throw home after a single. Dye can charge a ground ball single to keep a runner on first from going to 3rd. Aggressive doesn't mean the '82 Cardinals, it means taking advantage of your opportunities and denying them to the other guys. Most of all it means not taking plays off. Its a mind set.

 

I'd rather guys like Konerko and Crede play it safe on the bases. Far too often last year, we gave up silly outs on the bases where guys had little to no chance of being safe on the play. Especially when you have a team that can hit 200 homers in a season, you don't want to keep giving up momentum-killing outs. One way we could prevent other teams from being so aggressive against us is if our left fielder and right fielder charge the ball instead of sitting back and letting other teams go from 1st to 3rd or 2nd to home at will.

 

Exactly what I was thinking, and people forget that. Our #5 from 2005 finished the season 9-9, 5.12. And we had the best starting staff in baseball (or very close). As long as Floyd or whomever can do that and stay healthy, I'm not overly concerned about that 5th slot.

 

After last year's debacle by our pitchers, a 5.12 ERA from an unproven starter seems like a longshot. I'm stunned that people have such high hopes for Floyd. I'd be surprised if he put up a 5.12 ERA or better in AAA. Haeger is our best chance at being a decent 5th starter, and even that doesn't seem overly likely.