Jamar Smith charged with felony DUI and failure to report accident

[whitesoxfan101]

Let me say this: If Chester Frazier was unaware/not a part of those women calling 911 after he went back down to the car with Jamar and saw the situation (aka he was part of trying to "sober up" his roommate Jamar and not calling for help), he should also be gone for good. Period, because if that's true, Chester didn't do everything Jamar did, but in that case he also LEFT BRIAN FOR DEAD.

Edited February 21, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[hitlesswonder]

In theory, you are correct. I haven't heard anything about Weber answering Jamar's call and not calling the police. If that comes out, by all means fire him. Until then, hold the assistant coach responsible. He's not a 19 year old either. No matter what is preached by Weber, an assistant coach can make up his own mind about what do do. Fire him if you want. But quit drawing every line to Weber. Because if you want to do that, might as well draw it to everyone in the university, like ss2k5 said. The longer this goes on, the more and more blame Weber is taking, and it's becoming ridiculous. Last time I checked, he didn't drive the car, enter the car, drink that night, drive drunk, not call 911, ignore a phone call from a player, etc. A 19 year old acts like a moron and all the sudden Weber is to blame, almost more than Jamar it seems. Kick Jamar off the team, hand out whatever other punishments you feel necessary, and move on.

 

The real reason Weber is taking heat is becuase people are disappointed with his recruiting and the lack of a 25 win season. If Illinois were closing in on a top seed and a 5 star recruit was signed for next season, you can bet there would be a lot fewer calls for him to be fired.

 

But I do think you have to consider that Weber hired (or retained) the assistant coach and recruited the players involved. It's his program, and like any manager he's ultimately reposnsible for the end result. I don't know enough to say if Weber has somehow been negligent in running the program. I would hope the AD would know more than me and be able to make an accurate assessment. I don't necessarily think Weber should be fired, but the AD needs to take a hard look at how the program is run and decide what to do. And all options should be on the table. Weber seems like a decent guy, and I hope somehow things improve.

 

And I think that's enough of me sitting judgement for today....

[whitesoxfan101]

The real reason Weber is taking heat is becuase people are disappointed with his recruiting and the lack of a 25 win season. If Illinois were closing in on a top seed and a 5 star recruit was signed for next season, you can bet there would be a lot fewer calls for him to be fired.

 

WRONG WRONG WRONG!! If Illinois were undefeated right now, I'd be just as pissed. This isn't about wins and losses, it's about a drunk driver, apparently his roommate, and maybe even more players LEAVING SOMEBODY (a teammate no less) FOR DEAD. That is a lack of instituational control if your players are that dumb, period.

[Soxbadger]

I disagree about the Chester part.

 

First of all there is no law, requirement, etc that you must help a person. Its hard to get into a persons mind, but Chester Frazier did not cause the accident. He did not drink/drive, he just happened to be the roomate of some on stupid.

 

Now his a friend/teamate of both of them, but how can you ruin his life because he did not perhaps make the "best" decision. Because the decision he did make was not illegal, and while stupid, the position was thrust upon him. Just by circumstance he now gets kicked off the team?

 

Im also not sure about the scholarship/ what type of agreement is signed, but I would for sure contact a lawyer if I was Frazier and the school tried to take away my scholly.

 

I mean for not being a good sumaritan/ being a stupid kid the penalty of being kicked out is way to harsh.

[IlliniKrush]

The real reason Weber is taking heat is becuase people are disappointed with his recruiting and the lack of a 25 win season. If Illinois were closing in on a top seed and a 5 star recruit was signed for next season, you can bet there would be a lot fewer calls for him to be fired.

 

But I do think you have to consider that Weber hired (or retained) the assistant coach and recruited the players involved. It's his program, and like any manager he's ultimately reposnsible for the end result. I don't know enough to say if Weber has somehow been negligent in running the program. I would hope the AD would know more than me and be able to make an accurate assessment. I don't necessarily think Weber should be fired, but the AD needs to take a hard look at how the program is run and decide what to do. And all options should be on the table. Weber seems like a decent guy, and I hope somehow things improve.

 

And I think that's enough of me sitting judgement for today....

Well to quote 101 from a few days ago, and I agree,

 

"I can't blame Weber either, who knows how a person will change between the age they are first recruited (15) and when they normally leave (22)."

 

I have no problem looking at all aspects of the program, I understand that. And you are right, the AD is in a better position than all of us to know what goes on, 'inside information' or not around here. I'm just basing what I know off facts, that's about all we can accurately do. I also think Weber is a decent guy, and I hope this whole thing turns around soon.

[southsider2k5]

Let me say this: If Chester Frazier was unaware/not a part of those women calling 911 after he went back down to the car with Jamar and saw the situation (aka he was part of trying to "sober up" his roommate Jamar and not calling for help), he should also be gone for good. Period, because if that's true, Chester didn't do everything Jamar did, but in that case he also LEFT BRIAN FOR DEAD.

 

This was really disturbing to me too. How could you do something like that? If it bears out to be true, he needs to be kicked off of the team as well.

[whitesoxfan101]

Well to quote 101 from a few days ago, and I agree,

 

"I can't blame Weber either, who knows how a person will change between the age they are first recruited (15) and when they normally leave (22)."

 

I have no problem looking at all aspects of the program, I understand that. And you are right, the AD is in a better position than all of us to know what goes on, 'inside information' or not around here. I'm just basing what I know off facts, that's about all we can accurately do. I also think Weber is a decent guy, and I hope this whole thing turns around soon.

 

I stand by that quote, but with the details that come out more and more by the day, this case is not only the kids fault, it's also Bruce having no control of this team. At this point I think both parties (players and coaches) are at fault. Is that fair in your opinion? (I hope so, your a good poster, lol).

Edited February 21, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[Soxbadger]

This isn't about wins and losses, it's about a drunk driver, apparently his roommate, and maybe even more players LEAVING SOMEBODY (a teammate no less) FOR DEAD. That is a lack of instituational control if your players are that dumb, period.

 

The institution that is out of control is the UNiversity of Illinois, not Bruce Webers program.

 

Once again when you let kids drink at 19 a lot of s*** is going to happen. I can gaurantee scenarios like this play out quite fequently at Illinois (and at every school in the nation).

 

Im sorry but if my roomate gets in a car accident, or is on the floor dieing, I would have no duty whatsoever to do anything (if I wasnt at fault like Frazier). Why would the University punish me?

 

Yeah its a bad character move, yeah a good human would do it, but no I didnt do anything illegal or that controvenes school policy.

[IlliniKrush]

I disagree about the Chester part.

 

First of all there is no law, requirement, etc that you must help a person. Its hard to get into a persons mind, but Chester Frazier did not cause the accident. He did not drink/drive, he just happened to be the roomate of some on stupid.

 

Now his a friend/teamate of both of them, but how can you ruin his life because he did not perhaps make the "best" decision. Because the decision he did make was not illegal, and while stupid, the position was thrust upon him. Just by circumstance he now gets kicked off the team?

 

Im also not sure about the scholarship/ what type of agreement is signed, but I would for sure contact a lawyer if I was Frazier and the school tried to take away my scholly.

 

I mean for not being a good sumaritan/ being a stupid kid the penalty of being kicked out is way to harsh.

This also has nothing to do with Bruce. Chester made his own decision.

 

While I don't necessarily feel he should be kicked off the team for sure, he needs to be punished in some fashion. You have to hold your players responsible, and it seemed Chester was also part of this 'cover up' if you want to call it that. If that's the case, then something needs to be done, because that is unacceptable. It's not really about being a good person and doing the right thing, it's about assisting Jamar in his ridiculous night. That's how it sure appears to me.

[hitlesswonder]

WRONG WRONG WRONG!! If Illinois were undefeated right now, I'd be just as pissed. This isn't about wins and losses, it's about a drunk driver, apparently his roommate, and maybe even more players LEAVING SOMEBODY (a teammate no less) FOR DEAD. That is a lack of instituational control if your players are that dumb, period.

 

I just said a lot fewer people would be calling for Weber to be fired, not that you wouldn't. I completely respect that the on-court performance isn't the basis of your opinion. FWIW, my last post essentially agreed with you about Weber's reponsibility as the head of the basketball program (especially if there was an assistant coach involved). But all I know is what I've read, and I don't feel comfortable judging whether or not someone should keep his job based on a bunch message board posts and a column by Greg Couch. It's pretty clear something needs to change with the basketball program, whether or not it should be the coach I'm not in a position to say.

[whitesoxfan101]

I disagree about the Chester part.

 

First of all there is no law, requirement, etc that you must help a person. Its hard to get into a persons mind, but Chester Frazier did not cause the accident. He did not drink/drive, he just happened to be the roomate of some on stupid.

 

Now his a friend/teamate of both of them, but how can you ruin his life because he did not perhaps make the "best" decision. Because the decision he did make was not illegal, and while stupid, the position was thrust upon him. Just by circumstance he now gets kicked off the team?

 

Im also not sure about the scholarship/ what type of agreement is signed, but I would for sure contact a lawyer if I was Frazier and the school tried to take away my scholly.

 

I mean for not being a good sumaritan/ being a stupid kid the penalty of being kicked out is way to harsh.

 

Is it really too much to ask a kid to call 911 when a dying teammate is in a destroyed car, instead of running to his and his roommates apartment and leaving the person for dead? Not only is that not too much to ask, I also think it's fair to kick Chester off the team too if that's true. That's not a bad decision, that's a bad/stupid person.

 

I just said a lot fewer people would be calling for Weber to be fired, not that you wouldn't. I completely respect that the on-court performance isn't the basis of your opinion. FWIW, my last post essentially agreed with you about Weber's reponsibility as the head of the basketball program (especially if there was an assistant coach involved). But all I know is what I've read, and I don't feel comfortable judging whether or not someone should keep his job based on a bunch message board posts and a column by Greg Couch. It's pretty clear something needs to change with the basketball program, whether or not it should be the coach I'm not in a position to say.

 

Ok, fair enough. Sorry to respond so harsh, this situation is so sad/angering/embarassing.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Go to a national championip with Self's recruits.

Terrible without Self's recruting

Horrible approach with the players, and now is getting abused in the media.......Get rid of this guy, bring in talent.

 

 

Billie Gillespie your phone shoud be ringing soon...come take this team back to the respectable program they should be.

[whitesoxfan101]

The institution that is out of control is the UNiversity of Illinois, not Bruce Webers program.

 

Once again when you let kids drink at 19 a lot of s*** is going to happen. I can gaurantee scenarios like this play out quite fequently at Illinois (and at every school in the nation).

 

Im sorry but if my roomate gets in a car accident, or is on the floor dieing, I would have no duty whatsoever to do anything (if I wasnt at fault like Frazier). Why would the University punish me?

 

Yeah its a bad character move, yeah a good human would do it, but no I didnt do anything illegal or that controvenes school policy.

 

Ok fair enough, I actually agree with all points you make except Chester, and even there I can see why you make that point. It's just this nonsense can't be tolerated, and if Chester was part of this coverup that looks to have happened, I think he has to go too. I don't want somebody on my team that left anybody, let alone a teammate, to die.

[Rowand44]

Go to a national championip with Self's recruits.

Terrible without Self's recruting

Horrible approach with the players, and now is getting abused in the media.......Get rid of this guy, bring in talent.

Billie Gillespie your phone shoud be ringing soon...come take this team back to the respectable program they should be.

Don't turn this into a Bruce Weber coaching bashing thread. It has no place here.

[whitesoxfan101]

The details just get better and better....

 

"WCIA just broadcast an interview with the woman who called 911. She said after she saw Smith park the car and saw the damage, she heard the driver of the car shouting things like 'Wake up', which was the first indication somebody else was in the car. She then shouted down to Jamar to ask if he needed help, and he replied that he did not.

 

He then ran away from the car, returned shortly after with someone else (Chester Frazier), but did not go all the way back to the car before disappearing again. Apparently that's when the flashers came on the car, and Brian started honking the horn. She says Brian appeared to be conscious when he was pulled out of the car."

 

Unreal.

 

Just want to make sure nobody missed that quote. That is just so awful.

[IlliniKrush]

I stand by that quote, but with the details that come out more and more by the day, this case is not only the kids fault, it's also Bruce having no control of this team. At this point I think both parties (players and coaches) are at fault. Is that fair in your opinion? (I hope so, your a good poster, lol).

Yes i'd say you can spread the blame around. And ultimately he's responsible, and Guenther, etc. They have to make sure the attitudes and beliefs of the program are solid. I'm just getting the feeling that people are throwing equal, if not more blame for this particular incident on Bruce than Jamar. Somewhere along the line yes he's accountable. Behind closed doors i highly doubt he's telling guys to go drink, go wild, help cover up for teammates if you get in trouble, like it appears some of the players and/or assistant coach did. I mean if the assistant coach did that, that's especially on him, not Bruce, he's a true adult and a supposed leader. Unless he told them all somewhere along the way "this team is it around here, something happens, always try to cover it up guys, etc."

 

A while back there was some article (I think this was after Pruitt's thing) about how to support one another, don't let someone go out by themselves, always go out and try to help each other make good decisions. Overall I think Bruce preaches the right things, and I think he's taking too much blame for Jamar just acting very foolishly.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

Don't turn this into a Bruce Weber coaching bashing thread. It has no place here.

 

 

 

Everything will be just fine...its just part of life.

 

Signed,

 

Dave Bliss.

Edited February 21, 2007 by Jimbo's Drinker

[Soxbadger]

It's just this nonsense can't be tolerated, and if Chester was part of this coverup that looks to have happened, I think he has to go too. I don't want somebody on my team that left anybody, let alone a teammate, to die.

 

Once again you use the word "cover up" but the actions done by Chester I really cant use that term.

 

Did Chester destroy evidence?

 

Did Chester prevent a police investigation?

 

Did Chester when questioned by police, lie, mislead, deceive?

 

If the answer to all of the questions are no, then there was no cover up. Just being at the wrong place at the wrong time is not a cover up.

 

Lets look at the events:

 

Your roomate comes home drunk and has just destroyed his car. Another one of your friends/teammates is in the car in an unknown condition.

 

What did Smith say to Chester?

 

We dont know what frame of mind Chester was in. What if Smith came in and said "I just killed one of our teammates" Chester goes out to look at him and they both freak out.

 

Now they are in a state of panic, maybe Chester has some illegal things at the apartment, maybe he is underage and there is alcohol in there. What do you do?

 

No one is saying that the best decision was made. But in Chester's case, he did not make a decision that was illegal. We dont know what condition Chester was in, maybe he had been sleeping and just woke up. Maybe he was plastered.

 

What I can say is that it is way to far to ruin some ones life just because of bad circumstances. Chester did not go out and drink, he didnt drive home, he didnt fail to report the accident when it happened, and if Smith had taken an ounce of responsibility for himself Chester would not even be mentioned right now.

 

I mean have none of you been in a group where being a "snitch" etc would be detrimental? Chester is on the team too, and who knows how the rest of the team may react to him calling the police on another teammate.

 

Its just not so cut and dry, hes a young college student. And as some one who has made plenty of bad decisions mistakes, etc, Im not going to bring down the hammer on some one who's biggest mistake was, not calling 911 as quickly as possible.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

The thing here is who he was talking to and if coaches helped him "cover things up"

[Soxbadger]

My guess is none of that happened.

 

And if a coach did get involved it was not Weber, and that Weber had no knowledge whatsoever.

 

Because just think of it this way:

 

If a Illinois coach was contacted, you could argue that they had a duty to report it to the police.

 

None of them are going to risk their careers over Jamar Smith. Now if he was a more important player to illinois, i could understand it.

[whitesoxfan101]

Yes i'd say you can spread the blame around. And ultimately he's responsible, and Guenther, etc. They have to make sure the attitudes and beliefs of the program are solid. I'm just getting the feeling that people are throwing equal, if not more blame for this particular incident on Bruce than Jamar. Somewhere along the line yes he's accountable. Behind closed doors i highly doubt he's telling guys to go drink, go wild, help cover up for teammates if you get in trouble, like it appears some of the players and/or assistant coach did. I mean if the assistant coach did that, that's especially on him, not Bruce, he's a true adult and a supposed leader. Unless he told them all somewhere along the way "this team is it around here, something happens, always try to cover it up guys, etc."

 

A while back there was some article (I think this was after Pruitt's thing) about how to support one another, don't let someone go out by themselves, always go out and try to help each other make good decisions. Overall I think Bruce preaches the right things, and I think he's taking too much blame for Jamar just acting very foolishly.

 

I can't argue with that. The blame goes to Jamar (and even Chester maybe) far more than Bruce. However, the more I hear, this thing might be the downfall of Bruce. Regardless of the fact that he's not the main culprit here, this kind of incident gets coaches fired, especially as a wise earlier poster mentioned when you also factor in the bad recruiting and significant and quick fall in talent in the program.

 

And also, if Chester saw that car and like Jamar, thought he was dead but didn't even call 911 or stay near the car and instead just went back to the apartment, he was part of the coverup. That may not be grounds for going to jail, but in essence ignoring a dying person in a destroyed car is grounds for removal from the team, without question.

 

The thing here is who he was talking to and if coaches helped him "cover things up"

 

It's pretty common knowledge that the only person he talked to during those 2 hours was Wayne McClain, the fellow Peorian, and he talked to him very early in the process. It's also apparent that Bruce yelled at a concussed Jamar for almost half an hour at the hospital.

Edited February 21, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[Soxbadger]

Its clear that you dont like Weber, so im just gonna stop arguing.

 

Using your logic, Carlwell should also be kicked off the team for the following reasons:

 

1) He knew that smith was drunk and let him drive the car. He failed to report to the police a drunk driver.

 

2) when he woke up in the car he did not call 911 failing to report an accident with injuries.

 

Which is worse?

 

I dont know, Carlwell got hurt so of course he is absolved. But if he had stopped Smith from driving the car, no one would be talking about this either.

 

I dont blame some one after the fact for making stupid decisions. Make him (chester) give lectures to incoming Freshman about the dangers of underage driving, let him do something that will help stop the problem.

 

But kicking him off the team because he got caught up in some one elses crime is not really fair in my opinion.

Edited February 21, 2007 by Soxbadger

[whitesoxfan101]

Its clear that you dont like Weber, so im just gonna stop arguing.

 

Using your logic, Carlwell should also be kicked off the team for the following reasons:

 

1) He knew that smith was drunk and let him drive the car. He failed to report to the police a drunk driver.

 

2) when he woke up in the car he did not call 911 failing to report an accident with injuries.

 

Which is worse?

 

I dont know, Carlwell got hurt so of course he is absolved. But if he had stopped Smith from driving the car, no one would be talking about this either.

 

I dont blame some one after the fact for making stupid decisions. Make him (chester) give lectures to incoming Freshman about the dangers of underage driving, let him do something that will help stop the problem.

 

But kicking him off the team because he got caught up in some one elses crime is not really fair in my opinion.

 

This has nothing to do with how I feel about Weber. And the only thing Carlwell did was underage drink, that is worthy of MAYBE a one game suspension, and considering it would be his first underage drinking ticket, he wouldn't get that.

 

And i'm not saying Chester has to go, he didn't do nearly what Jamar did. I'm just saying ignoring a destroyed car with a nearly dead person in it (not even calling 911) is an expellable offense. How much different is that then what Ray Lewis did when he witnessed a murder (which, if Carlwell was dead like they thought, this wouldn't be too far off from) and ignored it? I know that's an extreme comparision, but it's not totally unfair.

Edited February 21, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[IlliniKrush]

I mean have none of you been in a group where being a "snitch" etc would be detrimental? Chester is on the team too, and who knows how the rest of the team may react to him calling the police on another teammate.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhh, there's a huge difference between being a snitch and telling on your sister, and not calling authorities when your teammate could be dead, or close to dead and in serious need of assistance.

 

He's part of the team, and has a responsibility to help his teammates out. What the hell did Chester do when he saw the body? I'd love to know what he was thinking. If i'm Brian, i don't want these guys as teammates anymore.

 

That is grounds for suspension in some fashion. Kicked out of school no, but I see no reason why being part of this cover up (and yes if he saw the body and thought he was dead/almost dead and did NOTHING, in my mind that'a part of it) can't result in some sort of disciplinary action.

 

What if Brian did die? Would you think differently of Chester?

 

I'd love to know when a coach or school official knew about the accident and when they did something about it. Doubt we'll ever know that.

Edited February 21, 2007 by IlliniKrush

[illinilaw08]

Two things:

1) Has there been any confirmation of Couch's report that Chester was the person that went out to the car with Jamar? Logically it makes sense that it was Chester since he and Jamar live together, but Couch isn't exactly an Illini beat writer, and there isn't anything clear from the State's Attorney's report that this was Chester. I'm just curious.

 

2) I agree fully with Soxbadger on Chester. Assuming he is the second person with Jamar at the car, what he did was not illegal. You have no duty to call 911 when someone is hurt and I guarantee Chester would have a lawyer immediately if he lost his scholarship for doing something that, while morally reprehensible, is not illegal in the eyes of the law. I don't know what you can do to him other than a long lecture, maybe a game or two suspension for "not taking care of business" but removing him from the team would not be the correct move, in my opinion.

As a diclaimer, I am in no way advocating what Frazier allegedely did, but he should not be dismissed for it.