Dick Allen Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Well, I'm not a fan of Vazquez. He's been around 9 years and usually has mediocre seasons. He's had a couple of decent ones, but nothing that would get him serious Cy Young consideration. Besides, if you listen to the people on this board who tell you Brandon McCarthy will never be very dominant because of the homers he allowed his first season, look back at Vazquez's first season. 31 homers allowed in 177 innings in the NL where he gets to face a pitcher, pitching in a big park in Montreal. If McCarthy can never be dominant because when he was 21 or 22 some guys hit some homers off him, I would guess the same applies to Vazquez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 Javy is Ted Lilly with better stuff. He will alwasy tantalize you with his ability but he's not ever going to be what he should be. This is about the 5th straight year of waiting for the Javy breakout. At some point, you are who you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Feb 22, 2007 -> 10:30 PM) Well, I'm not a fan of Vazquez. He's been around 9 years and usually has mediocre seasons. He's had a couple of decent ones, but nothing that would get him serious Cy Young consideration. Besides, if you listen to the people on this board who tell you Brandon McCarthy will never be very dominant because of the homers he allowed his first season, look back at Vazquez's first season. 31 homers allowed in 177 innings in the NL where he gets to face a pitcher, pitching in a big park in Montreal. If McCarthy can never be dominant because when he was 21 or 22 some guys hit some homers off him, I would guess the same applies to Vazquez. Just two things... First, 1.58 HR/9 for Vazquez, 1.81 for McCarthy. It's not a huge, huge difference, but it's a difference. Secondly, Vazquez's threw 61 fewer innings above the AA level, and 77 or so fewer innings at the AAA level. Those are pretty significant differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I hope he does better (I think he'll need to), but I won't hold my breath. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 22, 2007 -> 11:35 PM) Just two things... First, 1.58 HR/9 for Vazquez, 1.81 for McCarthy. It's not a huge, huge difference, but it's a difference. Secondly, Vazquez's threw 61 fewer innings above the AA level, and 77 or so fewer innings at the AAA level. Those are pretty significant differences. Also a difference, pitching in Olympic Stadium in Montreal, not facing a DH and pitching in USCF, facing a DH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Feb 23, 2007 -> 07:07 AM) Also a difference, pitching in Olympic Stadium in Montreal, not facing a DH and pitching in USCF, facing a DH. The NL hit more homers in 1998, but had more teams too. We can throw stats back and forth all day and nothing will come of it. At some point, dominance stops becoming about statistics and starts become about the player himself. McCarthy's stuff, while good, is not overpowering. He can be dominant on certain days, but it's probable that he'll never be able to maintain that dominance over an entire year because his stuff is not overpowering. Vazquez's is stuff is overpowering, and there's no argument against that. It's easy to see that McCarthy is the better "pitcher" - as in he has better command of his stuff and knows how to get hitters out. Vazquez is much more of a "thrower" than he is a "pitcher," but that throwing can lead to dominance over the course of a year. Kerry Wood has done it, and I'd argue Jose Contreras has done it as well. Point blank, Vazquez has been a great pitcher in the past, and only his head really is stopping him from being completely dominant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 23, 2007 -> 01:08 PM) The NL hit more homers in 1998, but had more teams too. We can throw stats back and forth all day and nothing will come of it. At some point, dominance stops becoming about statistics and starts become about the player himself. McCarthy's stuff, while good, is not overpowering. He can be dominant on certain days, but it's probable that he'll never be able to maintain that dominance over an entire year because his stuff is not overpowering. Vazquez's is stuff is overpowering, and there's no argument against that. It's easy to see that McCarthy is the better "pitcher" - as in he has better command of his stuff and knows how to get hitters out. Vazquez is much more of a "thrower" than he is a "pitcher," but that throwing can lead to dominance over the course of a year. Kerry Wood has done it, and I'd argue Jose Contreras has done it as well. Point blank, Vazquez has been a great pitcher in the past, and only his head really is stopping him from being completely dominant. Brandon will be better than Vaz this year, actually, I don't think it'll even be that close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Feb 23, 2007 -> 01:23 PM) Brandon will be better than Vaz this year, actually, I don't think it'll even be that close. You know I'm going to disagree with that, and that's just why you said it I like McCarthy - not as much as you, but I do - but I figure Vazquez will be better, and I think Danks will too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 23, 2007 -> 01:46 PM) You know I'm going to disagree with that, and that's just why you said it I like McCarthy - not as much as you, but I do - but I figure Vazquez will be better, and I think Danks will too. Of course. Nah, you know how much I like Brandon though so I figured if I can defend Brandon AND disagree with wite, then it's a must. Edited February 23, 2007 by Rowand44 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baines3 Posted February 23, 2007 Share Posted February 23, 2007 I don't think Javier is going to have a big year. I'm not a fan of his never have been. Buehrle is the one I expect a big year from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Feb 23, 2007 -> 01:23 PM) Brandon will be better than Vaz this year, actually, I don't think it'll even be that close. Vaz will be better than McCarthy this year, actually, and I don't think it'll even be that close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Vazquez will be a bit better than Brandon but not a better value for certain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LVSoxFan Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Vasquez always struck me as a guy one tweak away from total dominance. I don't know what that tweak is, but in the first five innings last year he would throw some nasty, nasty stuff. He's this/close. I just don't know what the fix is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 QUOTE(LVSoxFan @ Feb 24, 2007 -> 07:44 PM) Vasquez always struck me as a guy one tweak away from total dominance. I don't know what that tweak is, but in the first five innings last year he would throw some nasty, nasty stuff. He's this/close. I just don't know what the fix is. i completely agree with you and i'm with the people expecting a great year. for some reason i just see it clicking this year. by that i dont mean 20 wins but 15 is not unreasonable. remember he really did have the best peripherals on our staff last year and he's got amazing stuff. if he can get through a late inning or two and hand it over to our nasty bullpen he could have a very very good year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 QUOTE(Punch and Judy Garland @ Feb 24, 2007 -> 06:39 PM) Vazquez will be a bit better than Brandon but not a better value for certain. this I completely agree with. If I were to build a franchise, or even pick up a pitcher to help me while my team is still in that stage, I'm taking McCarthy without a second thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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