How to fix the prison system

[spiderman]

The total amount spent on Prisons in the United States was over $60 billion last year. The average cost to house a prisoner in the US is close to $23K per year. Nearly 2 million people are in prison at any given time and the system is overwhelmed because 2/3 of prisoners are sent back to prison again within three years. The current system is not a deterrent. It is simply a temporary barrier system to keep the offenders away from the general public temporarily.

 

Here is the solution.

 

The Aleutian Islands are a chain of 300 islands that extend over 1200 miles off the coast of Alaska. Several of the islands could be used by the Alaskan Government as a permanent exile for violent offenders or multiple repeat offenders across the country. Any state would be allowed to participate. They would simply have to pay an upfront $50K fee per prisoner and cover the costs of shipping the prisoner to Alaska. After that, their hands are washed from that individual forever. Alaska would take care of getting the prisoners to the islands in question. The prisoners would be left on the island to fend for themselves and live among other outcasts/animals of society. Few people live on these islands, so moving people to accomodate the prisoners would not be difficult.

 

The islands offer all of the neccesities of life. Each prisoner would be provided with a backpack containing survival gear, meals ready to eat for two weeks, and two sets of weather proof winter clothing to keep them warm (one set they would be wearing). They would be required to participate in a two day class to teach them how to survive in the wilderness for the rest of their lives. It would be their choice whether to participate or not. The mass production of the equipment for the inmates could be kept low due to the large quantities ordered. Perhaps $500 per inmate. Costs to transport inmates to the island would be minimal if done in bulk visits via helicopter or ship. The total cost to Alaska per inmate would be about $2K, netting out $48K per inmate minus the minimal costs of keeping a couple ships on round the clock duty watching the island. For the 20,000 murderers and violent sexual predators each year, that would total a nearly $1 billion revenue to the state of Alaska each year. States could also choose to send "three strike" offenders to the island (a significant deterrent to most criminals, I would have to believe).

 

The temperature ranges on the islands from 30-52 degrees year round and the military style clothing and gear provided (including a poncho) would keep the prisoners warm until they can build adequate shelter for themselves. It rains on the islands about 200 days per year, so fresh water would never be difficult to come by for the prisoners, not to mention the large quantities of lakes, rivers, ponds, and streams. The islands that have trees have coniferous trees and plenty of vegetation, including grasses, sedges, and flowering plants to eat and for insulation and bedding. The ocean waters are loaded with crabs, shellfish, and fish of all shapes and sizes and the prisoners would be required to fend for themselves to acquire food. The islands are also loaded with fresh water abundant with fish, as well. There are seals, sea lions, and otters to eat, also.

 

The islands are foggy, windy, and rainy with oceanic storms frequent enough to prevent anyone from escaping the island (since they would most likely have to swim hundreds of miles to get off). The islands could be patrolled by a small number of vessels to prevent anyone from trying to rescue anyone off the islands. Natural selection would keep the population of the island under control. Deceased prisoners could simply be "put to sea" so nature can take its course, eliminating the need for burial or hospitalization costs. There would be no need for an death penalty anymore since they sheer numbers would on the island would probably take care of that on their own (hence, quieting those who say that the State does not have the right to kill a human being either).

 

In this scenario, the prisoners are provided adequate gear to ensure protection from the elements, training and food to ensure survival from the perils of nature, adequate freedom to not be cooped up in a small cell and restricted from fresh air, given the right to create a new life for themselves away from the society they have proven they cannot live beside, and no longer be killed by their own State.

 

The States that choose to participate would slash the costs of their prison systems for housing long term inmates freeing up money for schools, health care, or tax cuts; remove unsavory characters from society permanently; create a real deterrent to prevent violent offenses from occurring in the future; create safer societies for their law abiding populace while lessening the burden those societies have to house these offenders.

[Texsox]

Those types of solutions have been used before. Actually living up there for an extended amount of time sounds like fun, and I imagine at least one other soxtalker would agree. A similar trip is on my retirement and life list.

[EvilMonkey]

A better way would be to remove many of the non-violent offenders that are in jail for pot possession and such. Fine the crap out of them if you want tp prosecute it so badly, but Johnny with a half a dozen joints in his backpack doesn't need to be costing the state $20k+ a year to be housed next to Bubba the buttraper. Then you can start keeping the really violent wastes of society in for longer terms. Your solution, however good a movie it might make, would have the ACLU so up in arms that it would never even make it past the planing stages.

[Texsox]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Agreed. Plus, I thought we were an advanced society. The money we spend on marijuana arrests, trials, and prison time is by far the biggest waste of money ever. I've never smoked, but to me it isn't any worse than alcohol, it's the distribution chain that makes it a bigger problem. Sell them in bars and liquor stores and turn it into a revenue stream instead of a revenue drain.

[Balta1701]

Then we have them build windmills. Gigantic windmills.

 

And no I'm not joking. Those places I believe receive more wind more regularly than anywhere else in the country.

[NorthSideSox72]

Interesting thought, but you'd end up with Lord of the Flies. Not pretty. It would be a disaster.

 

I like Balta's thought better - forced labor. Prison needs more of that. Have the do anything the government needs done. Less sitting around in prison doing nothing, more serving society. If the labor happens to be in harsh conditions in the Aleutians, then hey, so be it.

 

There was one case along these lines years ago. Long story short, a boy from an Indian Reservation in Washington state had commited a crime off the rez, and was complaining about being punished by a society unfairly, and that he'd be treated differently in his own culture, blah blah blah. So this judge called his bluff. He called the elders from that tribe and asked what they thought an appropriate punishment was. So the judge gives the kid two options - jail, or the elders' idea. That idea was basically being given almost no equipment at all, and having to live in the wild on some Alaskan island for a year, alone. I love that story.

 

 

Those types of solutions have been used before. Actually living up there for an extended amount of time sounds like fun, and I imagine at least one other soxtalker would agree. A similar trip is on my retirement and life list.

Indeed. Sounds pretty awesome to me!

[Texsox]

NSS, here is the balancing act. When the prisoners are put to work, they are now competing with workers that did not commit a crime. The government stops buying from Company A in Tallahassee and starts buying from Pontiac Prison.

 

Here is one such example

 

There are always unintended consequences.

[CanOfCorn]

NSS, here is the balancing act. When the prisoners are put to work, they are now competing with workers that did not commit a crime. The government stops buying from Company A in Tallahassee and starts buying from Pontiac Prison.

 

Unless the work is self-sustaining, like, ranching or farming for food for the inmates. Fixing problems with the prison itself. Plumbing/electrical...ok, maybe not electrical. But, make the prison self-sustaining...no work, no eat. It's no different than you and I not doing chores growing up.

[southsideirish71]

NSS, here is the balancing act. When the prisoners are put to work, they are now competing with workers that did not commit a crime. The government stops buying from Company A in Tallahassee and starts buying from Pontiac Prison.

 

I am all for putting the prisoners to work. It keeps them busy, and you can use a reward system. You work so much, you get more free time in the yard. You can buy items(non contraband) from a in house store. Make them learn a work ethic. It beats them lifting weights, fashioning weapons and running gang activity. We know they can already do all of that, hence why they are in there in the first place.

 

As far as the competition thing. Buying from the prisoners is still a better option than mainland china. Because frankly, if we are shopping for a price that is where they are going to go for the purchase anyways.

[Texsox]

Google Prison labor and you'll see the hot bed of controversy. It's a tough decision, with sound reasons on both sides. I really dislike seeing companies with law abiding citizens, even farmers and carpenters, losing jobs so guys whose only qualification is they raped a college student can take that job.

 

And it hasn't been buying from China, it's been building roads, demolition work at the prison, etc.

[NorthSideSox72]

Google Prison labor and you'll see the hot bed of controversy. It's a tough decision, with sound reasons on both sides. I really dislike seeing companies with law abiding citizens, even farmers and carpenters, losing jobs so guys whose only qualification is they raped a college student can take that job.

 

And it hasn't been buying from China, it's been building roads, demolition work at the prison, etc.

There is always work no one else wants to do, or there isn't money to pay for. Cutting trails in a city park for example, or self-sustaining activities in the prison like others have said.

[Balta1701]

If we're discussing how to fix the prison system, is it also worth noting how big of a problem prison rape has become in this country? If one were to try to find ways to actually rehab an inmate for doing something wrong, having another inmate violate and rape that inmate seems to be a terrible way to do things.

 

However, despite that, the numbers of how many prisoners are believed to be raped each year are in the tens to hundreds of thousands according to some NGO's, and it seems to just be something that is tolerated by Americans. "Ha, it's part of your punishment!". And on top of the negative situation it creates in terms of the prison environment, it has also helped rapidly fuel the spread of AIDS within prisons, especially among the African American communities.

 

Just something I wanted to toss into the mix. Do people here genuinely think this is something we should just turn a blind eye to?

[Texsox]

There is always work no one else wants to do, or there isn't money to pay for. Cutting trails in a city park for example, or self-sustaining activities in the prison like others have said.

 

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45b/156.html

 

I'm not saying it's a bad idea, just pointing out someone will lose. Cutting trails? City employee plus a families enjoyment of the park when they come up on a group of prisoners and their guards. Some people are nervous about that. Farming and ranching could wind up costing more than buying from current suppliers. Land costs, seeds, fertilizers, equipment to pick and process, etc. Trying to secure hundreds of acres of land. The American farmer is already stressed financially.

 

When I read the stories of honest, law abiding citizens, losing jobs to criminals, it just doesn't seem right to me.

[NorthSideSox72]

If we're discussing how to fix the prison system, is it also worth noting how big of a problem prison rape has become in this country? If one were to try to find ways to actually rehab an inmate for doing something wrong, having another inmate violate and rape that inmate seems to be a terrible way to do things.

 

However, despite that, the numbers of how many prisoners are believed to be raped each year are in the tens to hundreds of thousands according to some NGO's, and it seems to just be something that is tolerated by Americans. "Ha, it's part of your punishment!". And on top of the negative situation it creates in terms of the prison environment, it has also helped rapidly fuel the spread of AIDS within prisons, especially among the African American communities.

 

Just something I wanted to toss into the mix. Do people here genuinely think this is something we should just turn a blind eye to?

If they were out working 60 hours a week, they would be less likely to be doing this or other stupid things because they have nothing better to do in prison.

 

One could make a looooooooong list of problems in our prisons.

[southsider2k5]

When I read the stories of honest, law abiding citizens, losing jobs to criminals, it just doesn't seem right to me.

 

Nobody said anything about illegal immigrants

[Texsox]

If they were out working 60 hours a week, they would be less likely to be doing this or other stupid things because they have nothing better to do in prison.

 

One could make a looooooooong list of problems in our prisons.

 

Ahhh, I found there is a big diffeerence between sex and work. Maybe you're doing it wrong?

 

 

Nobody said anything about illegal immigrants

 

And I don't like them losing jobs to iillegals. We need to reform our immigration system to stop immigrants without jobs. I'd rather employee a legal immigrant than a prisoner.

[NorthSideSox72]

Ahhh, I found there is a big diffeerence between sex and work. Maybe you're doing it wrong?

 

I think you missed my point. Less time sitting around doing nothing means less violence, and I don't think I need to have been in prison to know that sex there is probably a lot more control-motivated than desire-motivated. Work 'em on tough jobs for a long time every day, and you will see a reduction is some of those things.

[Texsox]

 

I think you missed my point. Less time sitting around doing nothing means less violence, and I don't think I need to have been in prison to know that sex there is probably a lot more control-motivated than desire-motivated. Work 'em on tough jobs for a long time every day, and you will see a reduction is some of those things.

 

You are right, but that line isn't nearly as funny as you're doing it wrong

[mmmmmbeeer]

A better way would be to remove many of the non-violent offenders that are in jail for pot possession and such. Fine the crap out of them if you want tp prosecute it so badly, but Johnny with a half a dozen joints in his backpack doesn't need to be costing the state $20k+ a year to be housed next to Bubba the buttraper.

 

Agreed...and it's not just pot. Drugs are drugs. There are so many important programs that could be funded by the monies spent on the ridiculous "war on drugs". Pull out of Iraq and legalize drugs, suddenly this country has 100's of billions of dollars every year to spend on a myriad of programs as well as putting a few more dollars back in the pockets of taxpayers. But that would mean shrinking government, so we might as well dismiss those ideas.

[NorthSideSox72]

Agreed...and it's not just pot. Drugs are drugs. There are so many important programs that could be funded by the monies spent on the ridiculous "war on drugs". Pull out of Iraq and legalize drugs, suddenly this country has 100's of billions of dollars every year to spend on a myriad of programs as well as putting a few more dollars back in the pockets of taxpayers. But that would mean shrinking government, so we might as well dismiss those ideas.

There is a big difference between pot and, say, cocaine. Cocaine creates a dangerous person to society, is highly addictive, and as a general rule tends to ruin people's lives. Pot does none of those things, except for maybe a very small percentage of the time. I'm OK with legalizing pot, but I wouldn't go so far as all drugs.

[Texsox]

There is a big difference between pot and, say, cocaine. Cocaine creates a dangerous person to society, is highly addictive, and as a general rule tends to ruin people's lives. Pot does none of those things, except for maybe a very small percentage of the time. I'm OK with legalizing pot, but I wouldn't go so far as all drugs.

 

I think that position gets wide spread support.

[Balta1701]

There is a big difference between pot and, say, cocaine. Cocaine creates a dangerous person to society, is highly addictive, and as a general rule tends to ruin people's lives. Pot does none of those things, except for maybe a very small percentage of the time. I'm OK with legalizing pot, but I wouldn't go so far as all drugs.

Well, then here's the other side of the token...what is more effective with a person who winds up addicted to cocaine, meth, etc., (pick your drug); locking them up as punishment, or finding a way to treat that person?

 

In some cases, yeah, locking them up is the best option. But I can't imagine anyone here would argue that it's the best option in every single case; that we wouldn't be better off getting some people treatment instead of tossing them into prison.

[NorthSideSox72]

Well, then here's the other side of the token...what is more effective with a person who winds up addicted to cocaine, meth, etc., (pick your drug); locking them up as punishment, or finding a way to treat that person?

 

In some cases, yeah, locking them up is the best option. But I can't imagine anyone here would argue that it's the best option in every single case; that we wouldn't be better off getting some people treatment instead of tossing them into prison.

Locking them up would be a better alternative if jail wasn't a place to get more cocaine and generally fall further into criminality. That includes treatment, I agree.

 

And locking them up does at least get them out of society for that period of time.

[spiderman]

Then we have them build windmills. Gigantic windmills.

 

And no I'm not joking. Those places I believe receive more wind more regularly than anywhere else in the country.

 

They can build windmills. Ggantic windmills. Right after they figure out how to create a fishing pole out of their underwear or make a spear out of 64,000 blades of grass. I'm sure buildindg windmills is about third or fourth on the list.

[Balta1701]

I'm afraid I really don't know which thread to stick this into. So here's my best guess.

 

Colorado last year passed one of the most stringent anti-illegal-immigrant packages in the nation. Made it hard for even U.S. citizens to get ID's, harsh penalties, etc. This has apparently led to quite a dramatic worker shortage within the state, to the point that crops are rotting in the fields, construction companies can't find workers, etc.

 

The solution Colorado's about to try? You guessed it...Convict labor! Yippee!

Ever since passing what its Legislature promoted as the nation's toughest laws against illegal immigration last summer, Colorado has struggled with a labor shortage as migrants fled the state. This week, officials announced a novel solution: Use convicts as farmworkers.

 

The Department of Corrections hopes to launch a pilot program this month — thought to be the first of its kind — that would contract with more than a dozen farms to provide inmates who will pick melons, onions and peppers.

 

Crops were left to spoil in the fields after the passage of legislation that required state identification to get government services and allowed police to check suspects' immigration status.

 

"The reason this [program] started is to make sure the agricultural industry wouldn't go out of business," state Rep. Dorothy Butcher said. Her district includes Pueblo, near the farmland where the inmates will work.

 

Prisoners who are a low security risk may choose to work in the fields, earning 60 cents a day. They also are eligible for small bonuses.

 

The inmates will be watched by prison guards, who will be paid by the farms. The cost is subject to negotiation, but farmers say they expect to pay more for the inmate labor and its associated costs than for their traditional workers.