The Al Gore discussion, split from GOP/DEM

[StrangeSox]

It's sad when great ideas get discredited or bad ideas get credited based on who says them. But I guess that is our society, get the best spokes models and you have a winner. Style over sustenance.

 

 

 

There's no more common a logical fallacy in modern rhetoric than the ad hominem.

 

"Mr. X says Y! But Mr. X also does Z bad thing! Therefore, Y is also bad!"

[Rex Kickass]

That's exactly what I mean! Why can't I question Al Gore? Why is he all of the sudden some kind of untouchable demi-god??? Why do I have to attend his lecure circuit and pay to see his movie to have some sort of crediblity to ask some questions???? Is reading his speeches on line enough? Is see the experpts of his speeches on CNBC enough? Is watching his appearences on the TV news magazines enough? Is hearing eight years of his speeches as VP enough?

 

Come to think of it why is my credibility on trial, when the whole point back at the beginning was that I wasn't supposed to be questioning Gore's credibility in the first place?!?!?!? That kind of circular logic is EXACTLY what I am talking about when I say it feels like a cult when you question anything to do with the enviornment.

 

 

You wanna question Al Gore? Fine.

 

Using his electric bill to do it is like saying Dick Cheney is a hypocrite for supporting smaller government initiatives when he ran a company that was profitable solely based on the government contracts it was awarded.

[Jenksismyhero]

If you preach that violence is bad and then go out and beat the crap out of someone, your message obviously is still good but your credibility in giving that message should take a hit.

 

Gore is a hypocrite. That doesn't mean his mission is a joke or that his message isn't important. But his credibility should be questioned when he doesn't practice what he preaches (even if he does take SOME steps that others don't).

 

And he might not even be that big of a hypocrite. But I find it laughable there are hard-core environmentalists here who gloss over the fact that this guys house uses more energy in a month than the average Americans home does in a year. On top of the caravan of cars he travels with, the private jet, the vacation homes, etc….

[Texsox]

If you preach that violence is bad and then go out and beat the crap out of someone, your message obviously is still good but your credibility in giving that message should take a hit.

 

Gore is a hypocrite. That doesn't mean his mission is a joke or that his message isn't important. But his credibility should be questioned when he doesn't practice what he preaches (even if he does take SOME steps that others don't).

 

And he might not even be that big of a hypocrite. But I find it laughable there are hard-core environmentalists here who gloss over the fact that this guys house uses more energy in a month than the average Americans home does in a year. On top of the caravan of cars he travels with, the private jet, the vacation homes, etc….

Here's where I don't understand some of these points raised

 

If you preach the Bible then abuse children

If you preach against violence, then beat the crap out of someone.

 

How about if you preach saving ten percent for retirement but only save 8%

How about if you preach working out four days a week and only make 3?

 

Are you a hypocrite?

 

Every week I take a pledge that begins

 

On my honor, I will do my best, to do my duty to God and my Country.

 

If I don't do my absolute best all the time I am a hypocrite. That is quite the high pedestal some of you are raising. I hope you can meet those standards for yourself.

[Balta1701]

If you preach that violence is bad and then go out and beat the crap out of someone, your message obviously is still good but your credibility in giving that message should take a hit.

 

Gore is a hypocrite. That doesn't mean his mission is a joke or that his message isn't important. But his credibility should be questioned when he doesn't practice what he preaches (even if he does take SOME steps that others don't).

 

And he might not even be that big of a hypocrite. But I find it laughable there are hard-core environmentalists here who gloss over the fact that this guys house uses more energy in a month than the average Americans home does in a year. On top of the caravan of cars he travels with, the private jet, the vacation homes, etc….

What bothers me though is these people who are pretending that just because you believe in a cause, you have to take it to the fullest possible extreme to support it. You label Mr. Gore a hypocrite, despite the fact that it's been demonstrated here that his carbon footprint is likely smaller than yours, due to the fact that he's spending money to offset it. He's not out there calling for everyone to give up their livelihoods. In fact, the specific, personal call that Mr. Gore has asked for on the part of everyone is to a.) take steps to reduce your footprint as much as possible (by say, installing solar panels, etc.) and b.) for what you can't reduce reasonably, spend the money on carbon credits to offset the rest.

 

Mr. Gore is not asking us to give up electricity, or heating our homes, or anything else. He's asking us to take small steps to buy ourselves more time. And he is doing exactly that with his own life, probably more than any of us are even.

[KipWellsFan]

Yes, I expect Al Gore and his family, one of the most powerful in America, to somehow use as little energy as your average American...

And I'm saying that without really knowing, or caring, if Al Gore does take appropriate steps to reduce his ecological footprint.

Edited February 27, 2007 by KipWellsFan

[Rex Kickass]

If you preach that violence is bad and then go out and beat the crap out of someone, your message obviously is still good but your credibility in giving that message should take a hit.

 

Gore is a hypocrite. That doesn't mean his mission is a joke or that his message isn't important. But his credibility should be questioned when he doesn't practice what he preaches (even if he does take SOME steps that others don't).

 

And he might not even be that big of a hypocrite. But I find it laughable there are hard-core environmentalists here who gloss over the fact that this guys house uses more energy in a month than the average Americans home does in a year. On top of the caravan of cars he travels with, the private jet, the vacation homes, etc….

 

Here's a dumb question. If he's paying to use renewable resources to power his house, does that make him less of a hypocrite?

[Balta1701]

Here's a dumb question. If he's paying to use renewable resources to power his house, does that make him less of a hypocrite?

Mr. Gore also participates in the TVA's Green Power switch program, which allows him to purchase his home's energy directly from renewable energy sources in the area at a somewhat elevated cost.

[Texsox]

Here's a dumb question. If he's paying to use renewable resources to power his house, does that make him less of a hypocrite?

 

Only if he's doing 100% kind of like a retirement planner can only recommend doing up to what he is doing, or a Doctor can only recommend as much exercise as he is doing. It's wrong. If a Doctor isn't exercising regularly he can't tell his patients to exercise, that would be wrong and he's a hypocrite.

[BigSqwert]

Only if he's doing 100% kind of like a retirement planner can only recommend doing up to what he is doing, or a Doctor can only recommend as much exercise as he is doing. It's wrong. If a Doctor isn't exercising regularly he can't tell his patients to exercise, that would be wrong and he's a hypocrite.

Heh. That made me laugh.

[StrangeSox]

FWIW, renewable energy and other forms of non-fossil fuel energy cost significantly more per kWh than energy from a coal or natural gas plant.

 

So, really, you'd need to compare the total energy usage (not $ amount) and where that energy is coming from.

[Balta1701]

FWIW, renewable energy and other forms of non-fossil fuel energy cost significantly more per kWh than energy from a coal or natural gas plant.

 

So, really, you'd need to compare the total energy usage (not $ amount) and where that energy is coming from.

Don't you get it? Saying that he spends a lot more money sounds worse (even though one of the reasons he's spending a lot more money is that he is buying from the renewable energy program i linked above).

[kapkomet]

It's amazing how quick this became a circular argument.

 

Again,

 

Al Gore.

 

How DARE anyone question his righteous concerns!! He's JUST the messenger! Shhhhhhhhhhhh!

 

And Tex, I wouldn't listen to a 300 lb. doctor telling me I had to lose weight, etc. because he IS a damn hypocrite. That's exactly why you don't see doctors like that.

 

Al Gore.

 

Al Gore.

 

Al Gore.

 

I'm brainwashed now.

[FlaSoxxJim]

And Tex, I wouldn't listen to a 300 lb. doctor telling me I had to lose weight, etc. because he IS a damn hypocrite. That's exactly why you don't see doctors like that.

Wurd. Like Herm Schneider telling Bobby Jenks he should lose some weight.

 

Al

[kapkomet]

Wurd. Like Herm Schneider telling Bobby Jenks he should lose some weight.

 

Al

LMAO. Ok, that was good.

 

Al Gore.

 

FlaSoxxJim.

 

(now you're keeping some company).

[Balta1701]

The most recent Gore camp response:

Vice President Gore's office also wanted everyone to know:

 

100 percent of the power the Gores use in their home (and in all their homes though I wouldn't bring this up) is green power.

 

Both the Vice President and Mrs Gore have home offices and conduct business at the house so obviously they use more power than someone who is just a homeowner

 

The Gores drive a hybrid, use compact fluorescents, et cetera

 

And the Gores live a carbon neutral life which means that for every ton of carbon they emit, they also purchase offsets.

[knightni]

Yes, but do they use Ed Begley's electric engine?

 

THE MOST EVIL PROPULSION SYSTEM KNOWN TO MAN!!!!

[FlaSoxxJim]

Yes, but do they use Ed Begley's electric engine?

 

THE MOST EVIL PROPULSION SYSTEM KNOWN TO MAN!!!!

 

I LOVE that show!

 

When Bill Nye says Begly is over the top in his quest for tech-aided sustainable, environmentally-minded living that is saying something.

[mr_genius]

He actually practices what he preaches.

 

 

No, he doesn't. unless you consider using 20 times more natural resources than the average person as being a "great enviromental guy". i don't care how many BS "carbon credits" he buys.

 

like Ted Kennedy "loving" wind power, well until he can see a windmill off in the distance form his mansion.

 

just do me one favor, vote for Hillary Clinton in the Dem primary.

 

 

 

I actually SAW the movie

 

i saw it too.

 

The general hypocracy of Sunday night was that they all jumped into their 8 mile-a-gallon limos and sat on the 405 for 5 hours while waiting to go to the airport and jump on their heavy-burning fueled private jets to go home to their electricity burning 50,000 sq. ft. mansions.

 

How dare you. don't you know they are just trying to inform all of us commoners of this most important message? their job is done, they have earned the right to burn tons of fossils fuels.

 

Using his electric bill to do it is like saying Dick Cheney is a hypocrite for supporting smaller government initiatives when he ran a company that was profitable solely based on the government contracts it was awarded.

 

i agree, Dick Cheney is a hpyocrite.

Edited February 28, 2007 by mr_genius

[kapkomet]

How dare you. don't you know they are just trying to inform all of us commoners of this most important message? their job is done, they have earned the right to burn tons of fossils fuels.

I wonder how much fossil fuel was burnt making the movie?

[mr_genius]

I wonder how much fossil fuel was burnt making the movie?

 

doesn't matter. Al Gore made up for it by buying a "Green is Great" bumper sticker for the camera crew. helps awareness.

Edited February 28, 2007 by mr_genius

[mr_genius]

This is what is amazing to me - people are falling for the B.S. like that Drudge report.

 

 

uh oh, looks like Drudge has taken over a ABC affiliate. When will this vast conspiracy to ruin Al Gore end!

 

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=...&id=5072659

[EvilMonkey]

Man, the lefty circle-jerk for the Goracle is just simply amazing.

[EvilMonkey]

http://www.commondreams.org/views01/0429-03.htm

 

Published on Sunday, April 29, 2001 in the Chicago Tribune

Bush Loves Ecology -- At Home

by Rob Sullivan

 

The 4,000-square-foot house is a model of environmental rectitude.

Geothermal heat pumps located in a central closet circulate water through pipes buried 300 feet deep in the ground where the temperature is a constant 67 degrees; the water heats the house in the winter and cools it in the summer. Systems such as the one in this "eco-friendly" dwelling use about 25% of the electricity that traditional heating and cooling systems utilize.

 

A 25,000-gallon underground cistern collects rainwater gathered from roof runs; wastewater from sinks, toilets and showers goes into underground purifying tanks and is also funneled into the cistern. The water from the cistern is used to irrigate the landscaping surrounding the four-bedroom home. Plants and flowers native to the high prairie area blend the structure into the surrounding ecosystem.

 

No, this is not the home of some eccentrically wealthy eco-freak trying to shame his fellow citizens into following the pristineness of his self-righteous example. And no, it is not the wilderness retreat of the Sierra Club or the Natural Resources Defense Council, a haven where tree-huggers plot political strategy.

 

This is President George W. Bush's "Texas White House" outside the small town of Crawford.

 

Yes, the same George W. who believes arsenic and drinking water might not be such a bad combo, the same man who reneged on his campaign promise to lower carbon dioxide emissions from power plants, the same man who is doing everything in his power to fling open the Alaskan Natural Wildlife Refuge to oil drilling.

 

How does the President reconcile an eco-friendly abode for his own family with his persistent stand against anything that smacks of an environmentally friendly agenda for the nation as a whole? The answer to that perplexing question is a real mystery.

 

Perhaps sound ecological practices are only for those who can afford them: as a self-proclaimed strict constructionist of the U.S. Constitution, Bush must be aware that clean air and clean water are not guaranteed in that glorious document. Perhaps in Bush's Brave New Corporate World, clean natural resources are merely commodities in a free-market economy: if you can pay for them, fine; if not, tough. The rest of us will just have to put up with more toxic dumps and more public lands being turned over to logging, mining and oil companies.

 

According to David Heymann, the house's architect and associate dean of the University of Texas architecture department, Heymann designed the house so that "every room has a relationship with something in the landscape that's different from the room next door. Each of the rooms feels like a slightly different place."

 

In a USA Today interview, Heymann said, "There's a great grove of oak trees to the west that protects it from the late afternoon sun. Then there is a view out to the north looking at hills, and to the east out over a lake, and the view to the south . . . out to beautiful hills."

 

I suppose in George W.'s architectural world only the rich and powerful have views; vistas that the public owns as part of its shared heritage are up for lease and sale.

 

Heymann also termed the house "stunningly small." Really? Would it be stunningly small for a single mother in South Central Los Angeles? How stunningly small would it be for an immigrant Latino family in San Antonio Maybe in the rarified heights where second homes are the norm, 4,000 square feet is small and on a stunning scale as well, but in Main Street America that much elbow room is pretty big for the first and only home.

 

But then most of us can't reconcile what might at first glance appear to be inherently irreconcilable. Maybe some day, like our noble president, we will be able to make that kind of staggering mental feat. That is, if we ever stop misunderestimating ourselves.

 

Rob Sullivan is a freelance writer based in Los Angeles.

 

It takes some digs at Bush, but he seems to be quite the conservationist at home,

[Texsox]

So who is the great Republican conservation hero? I'm more concerned about the environment than politics, so tell me what Republican is an environmental champion so we can agree.