upnorthsox Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I don't really see it as a "hate" but more of a fan bias. Gammons has made no apologies for being a Red Sox fan. Additionally, put your feelings towards the White Sox aside and look objectively at what Gammons said about contracting the White Sox and you'll find out that he makes some good points. Face it Sox fans..... JR has killed White Sox Baseball in Chicago. Only way to get fans out to the ballpark now is to field the best team in the ML's. Sad..... but true. LOL, yea JR's et al are in such dire straights, a quick look at their est #'s for 2003: Local TV and Radio $35,000,000 National TV 27,100,000 Parking, concess, Merchandize 18,000,000 Ticket Sales 39,100,000 (1.7 mil sold at an avg of $23) __________ $119,200,000 Tot estimated revenue If he can't survive on that revenue with only a $54 mil player payroll what he needs to do is contract his accountant!!!!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Two things...... Show me the link where Gammons talked about contracting the Sox. Or I'd at least like to know what rationale he used. I didn't see it, but Gammons isn't stupid. Brando, Gammons always has good info. His soundbites on ESPN are generally just that. But Gammons often brings up trade possibilities before that. Take your own bias out of it and you might see what I am talking about. Yes, Gammons is from the northeast and yes he has reported on the Red sox for many years, and knows that organization better than anyone else, but I don't believe for a second his is prejudiced against any specific team. UNS, hate to argue with you based on facts I don't have, but I would seriously question your numbers. First of all, your numbers are way off in your ticket revenue projections. An average ticket price won't be $23 when you factor in half-price mondays and people buying upper deck tickets and move down. Plus, how many of your 1.7 million tickets are comp tickets?? I don't have the correct revenues so I can't get into an in-depth debate with you on this one, but since the Sox books are closed to the public, I think it would not be easy or reliable to guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 your own bias out of it and you might see what I am talking about. I have no bias (other than the 'bias" shared by 100% of Earth's population). I heard Gammons speak many times and have read a few of his articles. Unsubstanciated rumors aside, his baseball acumen and journalistic skills are VERY mediocre. Ble. (and, no, I shouldn't be able to "do better" than him in order to recognize his many weaknesses...so save it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I have no bias (other than the 'bias" shared by 100% of Earth's population). I heard Gammons speak many times and have read a few of his articles. Unsubstanciated rumors aside, his baseball acumen and journalistic skills are VERY mediocre. Ble. (and, no, I shouldn't be able to "do better" than him in order to recognize his many weaknesses...so save it) Opinions vary...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 Gammons on White Sox Contraction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted June 24, 2003 Share Posted June 24, 2003 I have no bias (other than the 'bias" shared by 100% of Earth's population). I heard Gammons speak many times and have read a few of his articles. Unsubstanciated rumors aside, his baseball acumen and journalistic skills are VERY mediocre. Ble. (and, no, I shouldn't be able to "do better" than him in order to recognize his many weaknesses...so save it) Opinions vary...... And skulls crack...so what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Gammons on White Sox Contraction That tells me nothing...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 it should tell ya gammons is a moron..... if not then i will .........hes a moron........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 it should tell ya gammons is a moron..... if not then i will .........hes a moron........ I disagree wholeheartedly. Just because he says something you may not agree with does not make him a moron. He is extremely well respected in baseball circles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I disagree wholeheartedly. Just because he says something you may not agree with does not make him a moron. He is extremely well respected in baseball circles. everything he says is never fact.....he hasnt been right about something since dinosaurs roamed the earth..............speculation is what he bases most of his stuff on.... never any cold hard facts.......... you think im biased... geez us hes the king of bias..............that is fact......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 everything he says is never fact.....he hasnt been right about something since dinosaurs roamed the earth..............speculation is what he bases most of his stuff on.... never any cold hard facts.......... you think im biased... geez us hes the king of bias..............that is fact......... Then why does everyone in baseball respect him? Why does he have the ear of nearly every baseball GM more so than any other national media person? Believe what you want...... I'll believe what i want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest hotsoxchick1 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Then why does everyone in baseball respect him? Why does he have the ear of nearly every baseball GM more so than any other national media person? Believe what you want...... I'll believe what i want. not everyone in baseball respects him and if he had the ears of every gm he would know a hell of alot more to be factual than he reports on...........i believe what i want to and i know you believe what you want to... and i believe that he is still a moron........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSOX45 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Harris' future is DEFINATELY in CF! This guy is amazing. He's a better flyball fielder than a ground ball fielder. He made a lot of mistakes at 2B in Spring Training. Prospects and Valentin can be moved for Freddy Sanchez. Then Rauch and Jimenez and prospects for Castillo! WOW! Lee Harris Ordonez in th outfield Sanchez, Castillo, Crede, Thomas in the Infield And Olivo at Catcher! What upside! A mix of Vets and Youngins! Think of it this way. You move Rauch and Jimenez and a prospect for Castillo. To acquire Sanchez (An Idea I like) you'd have to be giving the Red Sox Koch (They do need a closer) or Colon or a package of both or a package of Colon and Flash. Then I believe you could get Fossum, Sanchez and Nixon in return. There is some doubt that the Sox could get all this from Boston. Aaron Rowand may be included, etc. Next you package Valentin to the Cubs for whatever you can get. I'd try to find one of their power arms thats not as highly touted. Still, while trading a prospect in Rauch you'd replace him with Fossum (Plus, right now I don't really know if Rauch is one of the best Sox pitching prospects in the term of "upside"; although he is one of the closest to being ready). You have Harris to play center so you have no worries there (Harris is going to be a starter next year, I can almost guarantee it. I really see him figuring things out every game now and he's only getting better; with his speed that is an incredible asset). Then the Sox try to move Carlos Lee or Paul Konerko if they can get something of value for them. Either way you got a hell of a top of the lineup and the Sox have quickly went (From basically 2 trades) from a slow team to a fast team that can play defense. 2nd - Castillo cf - Harris 1st - Thomas rf - Ordonez DH - Daubach LF - Nixon 3rd - Crede C - Olivo ss - Sanchez Another option is hitting Nixon in the 2 hole with Harris and Sanchez in the back of the lineup. Olivo, Nixon, Sanchez, Castillo, and Harris all have plus speed. Ordonez has good speed while Crede, Thomas and Daubach don't, but none are Konerko. Bench: Konerko or Carlos (If its Carlos you'll see him get a lot of playing time; I'd move Carlos for someone like Sidney Ponson as a replacement for Colon; Sox may have to add someone), Graffy, Alomar Jr (Next year Rivera), Rios (Don't like him though, so late in the season they may call up Borchard and put him on the playoff roster, if they make it). Rotation Loaiza Buehrle Ponson Garland Wright Not quite as good, but still good. The biggest flaw is the Sox would of lost a reliever, but Ginter or Ring could come up as could Munoz, imo. I don't know if the team could do it this year, because there would be some weakness in the pen, but it would be built for the long haul and they would of cut payroll to the point that they could go with this team on the most part next season. That would be one hell of a deal if the Sox pulled it off, I doubt it tho. I doubt Boston would deal Trot Nixon and Freddy Sanchez in one deal. Considering that the Red Sox don't have a lot of depth in there farm system except Shoppach and Youkilis. I'd love to get Fossum, I don't know if the Red Sox would be willing to part with him either. CWSOX45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted June 25, 2003 Author Share Posted June 25, 2003 I agree with Rex on Gammons. Though I did hear Gammons mention the White Sox in the same sentence as contraction. I can't quote, but I do remember him saying it... on TV. And one question, all you trade speculators .... Did not Boston already shoot down including Fossum in a deal for Colon, this past off season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 That tells me nothing...... Take it up with Les Grobstein a local sports media celebrity in Chicago, who sometimes posts at WSI. Call Tony Kornheiser and verify if Gammons did or did not say that on his show. You wanted a link, you got it. Believe what you want, but you seem like a level headed person who checks things out, not dismissses them out of hand if they conflict with a current opinion. As far as the status thing goes, I say big deal. If Gammons has such a sterling reputation with the glitterrati of baseball then I for one don't share it. Most of the sports media of today with a few exceptions here and there completely underwhelm me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Take it up with Les Grobstein a local sports media celebrity in Chicago, who sometimes posts at WSI. Call Tony Kornheiser and verify if Gammons did or did not say that on his show. You wanted a link, you got it. Believe what you want, but you seem like a level headed person who checks things out, not dismissses them out of hand if they conflict with a current opinion. As far as the status thing goes, I say big deal. If Gammons has such a sterling reputation with the glitterrati of baseball then I for one don't share it. Most of the sports media of today with a few exceptions here and there completely underwhelm me. I never said I don't believe he said it. I said I wanted to see or hear what he said and how he said it. I do believe he said it, I am just curious to the depth of the whole piece. If he said that MLB should contract 4 teams, then it is not out of the question that the Sox should at least be considered in that mix. I don't think it would happen, but let's not kid ourselves and think that the Sox are on top of the world right now. Again, I would like to know more about what was said, because I don't think he was making a prediction. And I don't believe it has anything to do with him having anything against the Sox. Perhaps someone in MLB told him certain things were being considered? Hell, I am sure if they are still looking at contraction, then they are looking at 25 differenct scenarios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SI1020 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Rex if I came across overly argumentative sorry. You're right the Sox aren't on top of the world and I admit to having concerns about their moving or being contracted. There is nothing written in stone about Chicago always having 2 baseball teams. Your prospect reports are always a high priority for me on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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