Hideaway Lights Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:45 PM) Actually they don't. I don't have time to do this right now, but I'm willing to bet there are at least a handful of losses where the offense put up 6+ runs of support and Javy went out and blew it for the team in the early months of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:46 PM) Again, let's take a look at his run support in April and May, shall we? How quickly they forget... Please go ahead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 01:41 PM) Yes I do. He will win 225-250 easy LOL, he hasn't even won 100 yet. And it's going to take more than 225 wins to guarantee a spot in Cooperstown. especially if he moves to the NL for the next 10 years, takes a hometown discount, settles in comfortably and is dominating the worst division in the weaker league of baseball. So, you're saying that he signs with the Cubs this winter? I don't put Mark Buehrle on the same level as Santana, Randy Johnson, or Tom Glavine. Those are HOFers. Buehrle is on the really-good-but-not-great tier, along with David Wells, David Cone, and John Smoltz. Edited March 6, 2007 by WCSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G&T Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 I don't know if this has been posted but... From ChiSox.com Its Official TUCSON, Ariz. -- The White Sox and right-hander Javier Vazquez have agreed to a three-year, $34.5 million contract extension, announced Tuesday after the right-hander worked three innings against the Rockies at Tucson Electric Park. TUCSON, Ariz. -- The White Sox and right-hander Javier Vazquez have agreed to a three-year, $34.5 million contract extension, announced Tuesday after the right-hander worked three innings against the Rockies at Tucson Electric Park. Vazquez, 30, has a career record of 100-105 with a 4.34 ERA and 1,602 strikeouts in 290 games over nine Major League seasons. He will receive $12.5 million in 2007, as called for in the final year of his four-year contract he signed with the Yankees in 2004, and will be paid $11.5 million each year from 2008-10. "Javier and his representatives made a proposal that we felt was fair and made sense for us over the next several seasons," said White Sox general manager Ken Williams. "Javier has expressed a desire to remain in Chicago, and based on what he has accomplished in his career and the familiarity and stability he found with the White Sox and the city of Chicago, it's a win-win situation for both sides." Vazquez posted an 11-12 record with a 4.84 ERA in his first season with the White Sox. The right-hander would have been eligible for arbitration after the 2007 season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:05 PM) ugh, I dont know if I would compare Meche and Javy. their k rates were pretty comparable last season. Meche wins at a higher pct. for his career. Their ERA's if you adjust for AL are pretty close, Meche's would probably be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(Reddy @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:46 PM) im not getting you - how can you be against a deal this cheap in a market where Gil Meche got 55 million for 5 years??? Javy is lightyears better than Meche and actually has potential to still put things together. He had the best peripherals on the sox last year meaning he has a greater chance of doing just that - putting together a really good year. but, but , but. His record, his record!!!!! Lets just have a rotation full of rookies!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hideaway Lights Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(Reddy @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:46 PM) im not getting you - how can you be against a deal this cheap in a market where Gil Meche got 55 million for 5 years??? Javy is lightyears better than Meche and actually has potential to still put things together. He had the best peripherals on the sox last year meaning he has a greater chance of doing just that - putting together a really good year. Again, what is our plan for 2008? Is our plan to build our team around Garland (which I agree with), and Vazquez (which I don't agree with)? Is Vazquez good enough to be a number 2/3, with a bunch of kids in the rotation? Surely he's not. He hasn't had a good season in four years. And before we trot out all the different league-team-circumstances he's pitched in, there are good pitchers who are able to move leagues and teams and figure it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(WCSox @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:48 PM) LOL, he hasn't even won 100 yet. And it's going to take more than 225 wins to guarantee a spot in Cooperstown. So, you're saying that he signs with the Cubs this winter? I don't put Mark Buehrle on the same level as Santana, Randy Johnson, or Tom Glavine. Those are HOFers. Buehrle is on the really-good-but-not-great tier, along with David Wells, David Cone, and John Smoltz. John Smoltz is a hall of famer, easy. He's basically Curt Schilling except with a bunch of saves under his belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:49 PM) their k rates were pretty comparable last season. Meche wins at a higher pct. for his career. Their ERA's if you adjust for AL are pretty close, Meche's would probably be better. So, basically you have k rates being close one year, and meche hasnt yet had a good year. Couple that with meaningless records and we still got the better deal. Javy at 3 years >>>>>>>>Meche at 5 QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:49 PM) Again, what is our plan for 2008? Is our plan to build our team around Garland (which I agree with), and Vazquez (which I don't agree with)? Is Vazquez good enough to be a number 2/3, with a bunch of kids in the rotation? Surely he's not. He hasn't had a good season in four years. And before we trot out all the different league-team-circumstances he's pitched in, there are good pitchers who are able to move leagues and teams and figure it out. ok, so what fantasy pitcher will we sign for that spot in the rotation and for how much money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 01:50 PM) John Smoltz is a hall of famer, easy. I wouldn't say that. He's a legitimate candidate, but he's no lock to get in. Especially when two of his former Braves teammates have overshadowed him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:47 PM) I don't have time to do this right now, but I'm willing to bet there are at least a handful of losses where the offense put up 6+ runs of support and Javy went out and blew it for the team in the early months of the season. There were only 2 or 3 times that Vazquez pitched last season where he didn't have the lead at some point. It really makes his record even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Meche also enjoys walking the world and getting hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hideaway Lights Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(WCSox @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:48 PM) LOL, he hasn't even won 100 yet. And it's going to take more than 225 wins to guarantee a spot in Cooperstown. So, you're saying that he signs with the Cubs this winter? I don't put Mark Buehrle on the same level as Santana, Randy Johnson, or Tom Glavine. Those are HOFers. Buehrle is on the really-good-but-not-great tier, along with David Wells, David Cone, and John Smoltz. 225-250 is about as many wins as any pitcher from the post 2000 era can hope to accumulate in a career IMO. Besides, Buehrle has one of the best career ERAs in the AL going right now, could you imagine how dominating he'd be with the Cardinals? (the hometown discount - he's from Missouri) He's not even at 100 yet? He's only pitched 6 full years LOL. He's not even 28 yet, is he? He has probably at least 9 good years ahead of him. QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:51 PM) ok, so what fantasy pitcher will we sign for that spot in the rotation and for how much money? Unlike many in this forum, I am onboard with going completely young if it makes sense for a season. I'm saying I would have let Vazquez go and developed if it made sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:49 PM) Again, what is our plan for 2008? Is our plan to build our team around Garland (which I agree with), and Vazquez (which I don't agree with)? Is Vazquez good enough to be a number 2/3, with a bunch of kids in the rotation? Surely he's not. He hasn't had a good season in four years. And before we trot out all the different league-team-circumstances he's pitched in, there are good pitchers who are able to move leagues and teams and figure it out. well theoretically we have contreras around still so lets see: Garland Contreras Vazquez Floyd Danks hmm... yeah ok i could deal with that i think. so the problem lies where? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaCWS Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 SportsNation Rob Neyer: (4:22 PM ET ) Really? Another feather in Kenny Williams' cap, if you ask me. Vazquez's wins and losses don't show it, but over the last two seasons he's been just as good as Freddy Garcia. But because of those wins and losses, he comes a few ticks cheaper. Good news for Sox fans. Seems like ERA shows otherwise... Vazquez's ERAs over the past three years: 2006: 4.84 2005: 4.42 2004: 4.91 Garcia's ERAs over the past three years: 2006: 4.53 2005: 3.87 2004: 3.81 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reddy Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:54 PM) 225-250 is about as many wins as any pitcher from the post 2000 era can hope to accumulate in a career IMO. you dont think santana could do it? really? EDIT: nevermind why do i NEVER do my research before i say things. lol EDIT AGAIN: yeah he f***in could do it... back to my original statement Edited March 6, 2007 by Reddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hideaway Lights Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(Reddy @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:54 PM) well theoretically we have contreras around still so lets see: Garland Contreras Vazquez Floyd Danks hmm... yeah ok i could deal with that i think. so the problem lies where? Floyd has a hard time maintaining a 6.00 era in AAA and you'll saying he'll be our fourth starter in 08? Now that's a half-full glass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:54 PM) Unlike many in this forum, I am onboard with going completely young if it makes sense for a season. I'm saying I would have let Vazquez go and developed if it made sense. So you would have lost Vaz for nothing. And then lost around 90-100 games? Then your career as GM would be pretty much dead. Congrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCSox Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 01:52 PM) 225-250 is about as many wins as any pitcher from the post 2000 era can hope to accumulate in a career IMO. Besides, Buehrle has one of the best career ERAs in the AL going right now, could you imagine how dominating he'd be with the Cardinals? (the hometown discount - he's from Missouri) He's not even at 100 yet? He's only pitched 6 full years LOL. He's not even 28 yet, is he? He has probably at least 9 good years ahead of him. I didn't realize that Missouri was considered a "town." Buehrle has thrown something like six straight years of 200+ innings and it began to show last season. His style of pitching will help extend his career somewhat, but it certainly doesn't make him a lock for "at least 9 [more] good years". He doesn't have great stuff as is and if he loses even a few mph off of his fastball when he hits 30, he could go downhill very quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(RockRaines @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:51 PM) So, basically you have k rates being close one year, and meche hasnt yet had a good year. Couple that with meaningless records and we still got the better deal. Javy at 3 years >>>>>>>>Meche at 5 ok, so what fantasy pitcher will we sign for that spot in the rotation and for how much money? Meche's contract was ridiculous. KW would even say that. Vazquez is a 3 year extension so the Sox are stuck with him for 4. Meche usually wins a couple more games than he loses. Meche may not have the "stuff" Vazquez has, but he has at least similar results, and if he's overpaid, so is Vazquez. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:55 PM) Floyd has a hard time maintaining a 6.00 era in AAA and you'll saying he'll be our fourth starter in 08? Now that's a half-full glass... Well then who else do you have in there with your "young rotation" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hideaway Lights Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(Reddy @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:54 PM) you dont think santana could do it? really? Name me another pitcher besides Santana who could get to 250 who started in 1998-2000. He is the best pitcher by a country mile in this era and could be one of very best of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjm676 Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 (edited) should've used that money for Mark. I know that he had already turned down an offer last year. Hopefully, there's incentives in there for Javy getting to the 7th inning. Edited March 6, 2007 by robinventura23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:55 PM) Meche's contract was ridiculous. KW would even say that. Vazquez is a 3 year extension so the Sox are stuck with him for 4. Meche usually wins a couple more games than he loses. Meche may not have the "stuff" Vazquez has, but he has at least similar results, and if he's overpaid, so is Vazquez. All of the contracts are ridiculous, which is why is was good to sign Javy for less than market price, even less than he would have gotten in arb, you following? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 QUOTE(robinventura23 @ Mar 6, 2007 -> 03:57 PM) should've used that money for Mark. Hopefully, there's incentives in there for Javy getting to the 7th inning. $34M isn't even half of what Mark is going to get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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