Levine reports Sox and Buehrle to talk

[Harry Chappas]

Yesterday after Bruce Levine was giving the low down on Vazquez, he then went into Buerhle. He stated that the team and the Buerhle camp were going to talk through the remainder of spring training and see where they stand.

 

I always believed that most of what KW says is fluff and positioning not among his team but among other teams in baseball. KW says things and then most of the time does the opposite. Williams knows you win with pitching. We have three guys locked up for a couple of years. If we can lock up Buerhle there is concrete cost certainty for the next two years. I get the feeling a deal will be completed with Buerhle and it will be a longer term deal with some outs and incentives later on in the agreement.

 

Williams likes to trade young pitching and if we lock up Buerhle imagine the damage that he can do........

 

I think the WBC hurt Vazquez last season and with Cooper I think he is in for a big, big year.

[southsider2k5]

I think lots of these players thought the Sox would cave into their demands, and when the Sox started making plans without them, it kind of sobered them up. I have said all along that this would be the last year for the Sox with Buehrle, but if you think about it, he can't get a much more ideal situation for his playing career. If he leaves here as an FA, he is going to expected to be a savior, which he is not. He also will probably end up much further from home, unless the Cubs throw a ton of money at him. (if he is telling the truth about never signing with STL) Family has always seemed to be a big deal with Mark, as his family is at tons of events with him (games, Soxfest etc).

 

Maybe this could happen? Ah, I better just not get my hopes up.

 

Any guesses as to what the magic numbers might be? How low would MB go in terms of dollars and years? 5/75?

[EvilJester99]

Levine said he expects Buehrle's agent to ask for 4yrs @14 mill. He thinks KW will counter with 3yrs @ 14 with an option for a 4th.

[southsider2k5]

Levine said he expects Buehrle's agent to ask for 4yrs @14 mill. He thinks KW will counter with 3yrs @ 14 with an option for a 4th.

 

Jesus H Christ! If Mark Buehrle ASKS for that contract, you get him to sign it ASAP. That is a STEAL in this marketplace. In all honesty, that way closer than I would have expected.

 

Also out of curiousity, has anyone caught what MB's fastball has been hitting on the gun so far?

[kapkomet]

4 yrs, $56M is not a bad contract, IMO. However, if they do a 3 yr $42M contract, they should give him a huge kicker in that 4th year option (say $16-$17M)... can you imagine what the salaries (going rate) will be in 4 years? That's scary to ponder.

[southsider2k5]

4 yrs, $56M is not a bad contract, IMO. However, if they do a 3 yr $42M contract, they should give him a huge kicker in that 4th year option (say $16-$17M)... can you imagine what the salaries (going rate) will be in 4 years? That's scary to ponder.

 

Either that or if they are going to offer him $14 for the last year, offer him a big buyout, say like $5/6 million to put the guarenteed money up closer to $50 million.

[kapkomet]

Either that or if they are going to offer him $14 for the last year, offer him a big buyout, say like $5/6 million to put the guarenteed money up closer to $50 million.

That would work too (the big buyout option).

 

Personally, I think the #'s being talked about here are too low, but we'll see.

 

If MB's agent is asking for that, you have to JUMP on it, like TODAY.

[CanOfCorn]

Jesus H Christ! If Mark Buehrle ASKS for that contract, you get him to sign it ASAP. That is a STEAL in this marketplace. In all honesty, that way closer than I would have expected.

 

Also out of curiousity, has anyone caught what MB's fastball has been hitting on the gun so far?

 

 

No kidding...and I let him keep the pen!!!

 

I'm just hoping that the "hometown discount" that Javy gave the Sox and with Konerko and Dye signing for less to come/stay here...this propels Buehrle to at least THINK seriously about staying.

 

Y'know, for as much as some people rip on Guillen, he protects his players and makes them feel like they are important and a bigger part of a team game. As long as you don't cross him, he's got your back.

 

Did anyone read Savard's comments about the 'hawks yesterday? That he and Larmer used to get into yelling matches on the ice, but once it was over, they all knew it was just to be better? That's what Ozzie does....

[Tannerfan]

I think everytime I've seen a "Levin reports" thread on this board it has always been wrong.

[Flash Tizzle]

Williams likes to trade young pitching and if we lock up Buerhle imagine the damage that he can do........

I'll vomit if he even considers it. Trade veterans for SP prospects; then once veterans are signed, trade prospects for, what, positional players? And what if the starters fail, who's left? Don't move the prospects. Develop a contributing system once every 15 years.

 

Honestly, I'm not thrilled with the possibility of retaining Buehrle. Even if he were to come at a discount (relative to the market).

 

Not only is my belief based upon the second half of last season, but quotes this spring by Buehrle suggesting he may have to alter the method in which he pitches. That is, less strikes. Uh, why? Unless you have doubts of your durability, or disappearing velocity. Or perhaps hitters are looking for strikes and he no longer possess the talent to deceive major league hitters. One would assume someone with the success of Buehlre wouldn't want to change much based upon one bad, half season, right? Right?

 

At the least, Williams should wait until the end of Spring Training to see how he fares. Time should be set aside to determine whether reports of low velocity are because he's not stretched out yet, or something more.

 

Oh, and in case no one has bothered to look ahead, retaining Buehrle basically means we're without Ichiro. Unless another starter is traded. Which is certaintly possible, but for such a scenario to work, we'd need an additional prospect (aside from the 5th starter's spot) ready to immediately contribute. This would kind of be impossible if the prospects were previously delt...

Edited March 7, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[Y2HH]

I think everytime I've seen a "Levin reports" thread on this board it has always been wrong.

 

Well...hopefully this one isnt.

[klaus kinski]

Mark should listen to 3/42. What if he has another year like last year. If he took that-he's set for life-regardless of how hard he's rocked next year. If you are listening Mark, consider this, and sign.

[RockRaines]

If they cant get this deal done for what sounds like might be a reasonable amount, they should be shopping Mark at the deadline to really pick up some young difference makers.

 

Also, I think that KW knows he saved some coin by signing Javy to that deal yesterday and that extra 2-4 million is now in Buehrle's bucket

[southsider2k5]

I think everytime I've seen a "Levin reports" thread on this board it has always been wrong.

 

I could see that considering I have no idea who "Levin" is

[hi8is]

interesting... very interesting.

[retro1983hat]

3 @ $42 mill for Buehrle is a steal and he won't take it. He knows lefties who have been multiple-year All-Stars and durable are worth more. I love Buehrle but he will be the #3 for St. Louis next year.

[joeynach]

Levine said he expects Buehrle's agent to ask for 4yrs @14 mill. He thinks KW will counter with 3yrs @ 14 with an option for a 4th.

 

Id say both sides agree in the middle say 4 years 50 Mil with some backload to get his 14 mil per. 11 in 08, 12 in 09, 13 in 2010, and 14 in 2011. Sounds fair on both fronts. MB is 30 games over compared to Vazquez being 5 games under, seems to deserve more.

[Balta1701]

Id say both sides agree in the middle say 4 years 50 Mil with some backload to get his 14 mil per. 11 in 08, 12 in 09, 13 in 2010, and 14 in 2011. Sounds fair on both fronts. MB is 30 games over compared to Vazquez being 5 games under, seems to deserve more.

Just like with Mr. Vazquez...if Mark Buehrle is signable for a contract of reasonable length and dollars, absolutely you must jump at it. The White Sox have been really good about avoiding giving out no-trade clauses, I think the most they've done is let Konerko list like 6 teams he won't go to. If you can sign both Vazquez and Buehrle, absolutely, you do so, you let them pitch out this season, then see where you stand with your rookies, Garland, and the trade market next year.

 

A pitcher like Vazquez signed to a 3 year, $34.5 million deal or a pitcher like Buehrle signed to a 3-4 year, $14 mil a year deal is probably going to be worth a hell of a lot more in a trade than either of those same guys signed to a 1 year deal.

[RockRaines]

Just like with Mr. Vazquez...if Mark Buehrle is signable for a contract of reasonable length and dollars, absolutely you must jump at it. The White Sox have been really good about avoiding giving out no-trade clauses, I think the most they've done is let Konerko list like 6 teams he won't go to. If you can sign both Vazquez and Buehrle, absolutely, you do so, you let them pitch out this season, then see where you stand with your rookies, Garland, and the trade market next year.

 

A pitcher like Vazquez signed to a 3 year, $34.5 million deal or a pitcher like Buehrle signed to a 3-4 year, $14 mil a year deal is probably going to be worth a hell of a lot more in a trade than either of those same guys signed to a 1 year deal.

If they can sign Buehrle to less than market value too, then we have two large trading chips that could help us reload this team within a couple of years. Thats a pretty good strategy for this club moving forward.

[iamshack]

Id say both sides agree in the middle say 4 years 50 Mil with some backload to get his 14 mil per. 11 in 08, 12 in 09, 13 in 2010, and 14 in 2011. Sounds fair on both fronts. MB is 30 games over compared to Vazquez being 5 games under, seems to deserve more.

 

I'd rather they just not extend him. We've got 3 pitchers locked up through 08' at about $32 million annually and contracts up after this year for Dye/Iguchi, and after 08' for Thome/Crede/Garland. We've got a slew of position players to either re-sign or replace on the free agent market. We don't have the capacity to have $45-50 million locked up in the starting pitching again.

 

I like the idea of having three veterans and two young guys in the rotation for 08', and if there are others coming along, one more can move in after Jon's contract expires. Extending Mark at 14-15 per just puts us in a number crunch again, unless of course they decide to trade Jose next year or in 09. But as far as I am concerned, they can let Mark walk or deal him.

[Balta1701]

I'd rather they just not extend him. We've got 3 pitchers locked up through 08' at about $32 million annually and contracts up after this year for Dye/Iguchi, and after 08' for Thome/Crede/Garland. We've got a slew of position players to either re-sign or replace on the free agent market. We don't have the capacity to have $45-50 million locked up in the starting pitching again.

 

I like the idea of having three veterans and two young guys in the rotation for 08', and if there are others coming along, one more can move in after Jon's contract expires. Extending Mark at 14-15 per just puts us in a number crunch again, unless of course they decide to trade Jose next year or in 09. But as far as I am concerned, they can let Mark walk or deal him.

Resigning both Buehrle and Vazquez absolutely does not mean that the White Sox won't have room for 2 young guys in the 2008 rotation.

[Capn12]

4/52 is a true meet in the middle offer, and if we can get Buehrle to ink at that, then there should be absolutely no hesitation. I know that 4th year will make JR cry to himself at night, but sometimes, you just gotta forget that Jamie Navarro ever existed.

[RockRaines]

4/52 is a true meet in the middle offer, and if we can get Buehrle to ink at that, then there should be absolutely no hesitation. I know that 4th year will make JR cry to himself at night, but sometimes, you just gotta forget that Jamie Navarro ever existed.

Hahahah. Plus that becomes an extremely movable contract if need be anyway.

[GreatScott82]

If they can agree to a deal before the season starts, it would only be a possitive situation! We wouldn't have to listen to any of the contract talk during the season or any of the Cardinal crap for that matter. We would have 4 legitamate pitchers locked up at least until 2008. And with an exciting competition building up at that 5th spot..this can only continue to be possitive. What are the odds of having 2 young guys succeeding in 2 spots next year? Not good. If its only one spot they are fighting for, there is a very good chance a young guy will emerge (Danks, Floyd, Broadway, Haegar...) If they can lock down Buerhle (whome is the best Sox pitcher of my lifetime), It would be HUGE! pitching wins titles... KW knows that.

[RME JICO]

I thought this KW quote in the FoxSports article was very interesting, speaking in regards to the new pitchers:

 

Who pans out to be a No. 1, 2 or 3, I don't know. They're all going to be somewhere in there. But fortunately, with Jon Garland, Mark Buerhle, Jose Contreras and Javier Vazquez, we don't need them to be anything but a No. 5 right now and next year as well.

 

They've got time to grow into whoever they're going to turn out to be. But they're going to be special.

So if they don't need to be anything but a No. 5 now and next year, doesn't that imply that the current 4 will all be around in 2008, including Buehrle? KW normally chooses his words very carefully and this seems pretty obvious.

Edited March 7, 2007 by RME JICO