Rowand to the Sox??

[hitlesswonder]

Why's that? Phillips isn't even on the radar as far as the big league team.

 

Here's the way I look at it: Brian Anderson sucks. Thus, if we send him down to the minors, I wouldn't mind having a platoon of Erstad/Rowand in CF.

 

Sure, I'll agree (barring a torrid streak of hitting to close spring training), Anderson should start the season in AAA. And that a platoon of Rowand & Erstad would be better than playing Erstad everyday.

 

My problems with acquiring Rowand are:

1) The cost. It won't be just Logan or Phillips or Tracey and Logan or something like that. If it was, I wouldn't think it was that big of a deal. PHI thinks Rowand should bring back Linebrink, so it will take a major league reliever in addition to Logan to get Rowand. Shipping off MacDougal to get Rowand would be insane.

 

2) Rowand's not a very good hitter. He hasn't done well in platoon situations before, and I'm sort of doubtful that the at-bats he gets against LHP will go very far to improve the Sox. He'd be a marginal improvement. The Sox need more than that.

 

If PHI wants to cough up Rowand for Logan/Phillips and Tracey that's fine. But I doubt that's the deal on the table...

[whitesoxfan101]

Ozzie loves Pods though.....it's not going to happen.

 

Ozzie loved Freddy a lot more and we dealt him too. This is for sure Pods last year here, so we'd deal him.

[CanOfCorn]

If Rowand is on the Sox when they break Spring Training, I'll eat my Sox hat. Not that I don't like him, or think he'll help, or anything, I just don't think Kenny will pull the trigger on that.

 

No reason to. Rowand and Erstad are basically the same type of player. Not fantastic, but gritty.

[whitesoxfan101]

If Rowand is on the Sox when they break Spring Training, I'll eat my Sox hat. Not that I don't like him, or think he'll help, or anything, I just don't think Kenny will pull the trigger on that.

 

No reason to. Rowand and Erstad are basically the same type of player. Not fantastic, but gritty.

 

Yep. Both are overrated defenders who in reality are simply a bit above average. In fact, Erstad is a better hitter and can step into the LH batters box, so i'd take him.

[NorthSideSox72]

Ozzie loved Freddy a lot more and we dealt him too. This is for sure Pods last year here, so we'd deal him.

Good point. So throw Pods in the pool too.

 

Who leads off then? I'm OK with Iguchi leading off, but that won't happen. It would be Erstad, and that is less than ideal, to me.

[whitesoxfan101]

Good point. So throw Pods in the pool too.

 

Who leads off then? I'm OK with Iguchi leading off, but that won't happen. It would be Erstad, and that is less than ideal, to me.

 

Erstad is a better leadoff hitter than Pods IMO. He'll get on base a bit more, and won't make nearly as many outs on the bases getting caught stealing and trying horrible bunts.

[NorthSideSox72]

Erstad is a better leadoff hitter than Pods IMO. He'll get on base a bit more, and won't make nearly as many outs on the bases getting caught stealing and trying horrible bunts.

I like my leadoff hitters to be capable of stealing bases a little more often.

 

Here is a question - how is Erstad at bunting? Not of huge importance, just wondering if anyone knows, and if he still has enough speed to try them occasionally for hits.

 

I still think Gooch would be a good leadoff guy.

[CanOfCorn]

I like my leadoff hitters to be capable of stealing bases a little more often.

 

Here is a question - how is Erstad at bunting? Not of huge importance, just wondering if anyone knows, and if he still has enough speed to try them occasionally for hits.

 

I still think Gooch would be a good leadoff guy.

 

Kevin Youkilis says hi.

[whitesoxfan101]

I like my leadoff hitters to be capable of stealing bases a little more often.

 

Here is a question - how is Erstad at bunting? Not of huge importance, just wondering if anyone knows, and if he still has enough speed to try them occasionally for hits.

 

I still think Gooch would be a good leadoff guy.

 

He's a lot better than Pods at bunting. Pods SUCKS at non bunt for hit bunts (aka sacrifices). As for stolen bases....your right to an extent, but if your going to get caught 20 times like Pods, your killing the purpose. Stolen bases are only as good as your success rate and how often you get on base in general.

Edited March 9, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[CanOfCorn]

He's a lot better than Pods at bunting. Pods SUCKS at non bunt for hit bunts (aka sacrifices). As for stolen bases....your right to an extent, but if your going to get caught 20 times like Pods, your killing the purpose.

 

It's not the amount of times you get caught, it's the percentage. If he steals 100 bases, but gets caught 20 times, I'll take that. The problem with Pods isn't speed, it's technique and timing. I don't think he gets a very good jump off the pitcher.

 

If Erstad could still steal 20 bases, but only get caught 5-8 times, I'll be happy.

[whitesoxfan101]

It's not the amount of times you get caught, it's the percentage. If he steals 100 bases, but gets caught 20 times, I'll take that. The problem with Pods isn't speed, it's technique and timing. I don't think he gets a very good jump off the pitcher.

 

If Erstad could still steal 20 bases, but only get caught 5-8 times, I'll be happy.

 

Well of course. People are still under the false premise that a .350 OBP guy who goes 50 for 65 in steals is better than a .370 OBP guy (which Erstad isn't obviously, but i'm making a seperate debate) who goes 18 for 20 in steals, when in reality guy #2 is much better.

Edited March 9, 2007 by whitesoxfan101

[DrunkBomber]

Maybe Rowand would be able to magically make Pods morph back into 05 form and he can go back to turning every single or walk into a triple...ahhhhhh, that would be nice.

Edited March 9, 2007 by DrunkBomber

[LVSoxFan]

I can understand the reasons for and against wanting Rowand back here but I do take exception to people who claim he was not a clubhouse presence and didn't bring that "chemistry" to the team.

 

Rowand was the epitome of "grinder"--remember that term?--in '05 and it sure seemed that when he was gone, we went from being a team of proud "grinders" to a team with some sort of sense of entitlement, that didn't hustle like the '05 team.

 

I think he contributed more than people are giving him credit for.

 

Just my two cents...

[Balta1701]

Oh f***ing great. Another Rowand thread.

 

Well, my day's ruined. Thanks Sun Times. How about the rest of you?

[WCSox]

A-Row coming back.

This is like Van Halen reunion talk.

Everyone says it is going to happen.

Never does.

 

Um, VH went on a reunion tour with Sammy in '04.

[NorthSideSox72]

He's a lot better than Pods at bunting. Pods SUCKS at non bunt for hit bunts (aka sacrifices). As for stolen bases....your right to an extent, but if your going to get caught 20 times like Pods, your killing the purpose. Stolen bases are only as good as your success rate and how often you get on base in general.

I agree about Pods' rate. He attempts about 10 to 20 more times in a full year than he should - he forces it. His rate was low 70's in percentage in 2005, then fell to the 60's in 2006. If he is in the 70's, I'm OK with it, though better than 75% would be ideal.

 

If Erstad can lay down bunts better than Pods, that's a small bonus.

 

If Gooch led off, you'd probably get a .350-.360 OBP and a 70 to 75% steal rate on 20-ish attempts, if he was in that role. Plus good situational hitting, and some power.

[Flash Tizzle]

Personally, I believe dealing Logan is a mistake. He has shown immense talent in the minors and could be a fixture in our bullpen for many years.

 

If Williams is intent on trading several AAA players (Rogowski/Tracey), why not search for a similar to situation to ours where a player (CF) is blocked? If it doesn't work out, who cares? I'd rather take this risk than preventing Anderson from playing another season because Rowand is back. And everyone here knows Rowand will be given ALL the time to hit out of slumps.

Edited March 9, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[Balta1701]

I agree about Pods' rate. He attempts about 10 to 20 more times in a full year than he should - he forces it. His rate was low 70's in percentage in 2005, then fell to the 60's in 2006. If he is in the 70's, I'm OK with it, though better than 75% would be ideal.

He was doing just fine with his steal rate before he was hurt. He was forcing it for the last year and a half, I think, because that's what he feels like he should be doing, and he feels like he should be better at it than he was. Maybe getting his legs healthy will finally help.

[Pods70Rowand33]

I think I saw someone mention MacDougal's name in the trade, but correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't he signed for a few more years at a huge bargain? That just wouldn't make sense for Rowand who is a FA after this season, we'd have to get a little more than just him.

[Balta1701]

I think I saw someone mention MacDougal's name in the trade, but correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't he signed for a few more years at a huge bargain? That just wouldn't make sense for Rowand who is a FA after this season, we'd have to get a little more than just him.

Trading Mike MacDougal for Aaron Rowand would be absolutely f***ing insane. He was just signed to a deal that I believe lasts through 2010 at a very reasonable price. Hell, as far as I can see, trading anyone out of our top 7 bullpen guys for Aaron Rowand would be insane. (That includes all 3 lefties).

Edited March 9, 2007 by Balta1701

[ptatc]

Well of course. People are still under the false premise that a .350 OBP guy who goes 50 for 65 in steals is better than a .370 OBP guy (which Erstad isn't obviously, but i'm making a seperate debate) who goes 18 for 20 in steals, when in reality guy #2 is much better.

Many people still believe it because it has a valid point. Statistically in the Bill James element it doesn't. But what it does take into effect is the pitcher's mind set. Players with speed on first base bother pitchers. MB commented on this earlier in the spring. During one of his first outings there were people on base and he said it was distracting him and making him work harder. This is the advantage. It won't show in stats so you won't agree but if a pitcher needs to work harder it will effect them later in the game. The player who steals may not score more often but I believe it effects the pitcher and is an advantage over the game and over a season.

 

Personally, I believe dealing Logan is a mistake. He has shown immense talent in the minors and could be a fixture in our bullpen for many years.

If Williams is intent on trading several AAA players (Rogowski/Tracey), why not search for a similar to situation to ours where a player (CF) is blocked? If it doesn't work out, who cares? I'd rather take this risk than preventing Anderson from playing another season because Rowand is back. And everyone here knows Rowand will be given ALL the time to hit out of slumps.

 

I agree. Although, I've been impressed so far with Phillips. I think he may make a decent back of the rotation guy or a reliever. I think adds to the potential depth of the lefty pitcher pool for the bullpen if nothing else.

[Balta1701]

I agree. Although, I've been impressed so far with Phillips. I think he may make a decent back of the rotation guy or a reliever. I think adds to the potential depth of the lefty pitcher pool for the bullpen if nothing else.

I agree with where you're coming from on Phillips, but if 2k5 is correct and Heath only has 1 minor league option remaining, then if we don't trade him this season, there's a real good shot that KW would be in the Borchard "Miracle trade" position next spring; there's virtually no chance that Heath is going to be able to jump over all of Charlie, Floyd, Danks, Gio, Lance, and maybe Sisco as well to make it into the rotation when there are probably at most going to be 2 spots open. Maybe if KW dealt Garland and 3 slots opened up he'd have a shot, and I don't know what Kenny boy's plans are, but it seems like Heath is in an awfully long line.

Edited March 9, 2007 by Balta1701

[Felix]

Rowand would probably lower the odds of a Pods/Erstad combo in the starting lineup... I wouldn't mind that at all.

 

Plus, Rowand kicks ass.

[Rowand44]

Trading Mike MacDougal for Aaron Rowand would be absolutely f***ing insane.

^^^

[southsideirish71]

If we can give up a Tracey, a Phillips or B prospects like that then its no risk. Giving up a Masset, a Logan, or MacDougal is just too much of a price to pay.

 

I was not a big fan of Rowand when he was here, hitting 235 and 245 in the stretch run. His defense while spectacular during the Yankee series, was poor at the end of the season when he was breaking back on flyballs and then running like a madman to makeup for the fact that he played the swing, and not the ball. The best thing he will bring back to me, is his attitude and his friendship with the team.