Fifth Starter Field Narrows

[Heads22]

White Sox fifth starter field narrows

Danks, Floyd frontrunners for spot; Haeger also in mix

By Scott Merkin / MLB.com

 

Gavin Floyd (pictured) will start Tuesday against Texas, and John Danks will follow him to the mound for three or four innings of relief. (John Miller/AP)

 

TUCSON, Ariz. -- After a Saturday morning meeting involving general manager Ken Williams, manager Ozzie Guillen and Guillen's coaching staff, it now appears as if Gavin Floyd or John Danks will be taking the fifth in regard to the final slot of the White Sox rotation.

Guillen made that call after watching his team beat Oakland, 10-6, at Tucson Electric Park. But even with the two frontrunners clearly emerging, Guillen still left the door open for knuckleballer Charlie Haeger.

 

"I don't want to say Charlie is out of the picture," Guillen said. "He has three or four more outings before we choose things over. It all depends on how he throws.

 

"Those are the two main guys to be there, plus Haeger," added Guillen, when asked if it was safe to narrow down the fifth starter competition to Floyd and Danks. "But the way those two guys throw now, it's going to be hard for us to make the decision."

 

After Danks cruised through three scoreless innings Friday against Arizona, Guillen spoke of how impressed he was with the southpaw and how Saturday morning's meeting was going to focus on where his role with the team currently stood. During Friday's postgame talk with the media, it sounded as if Guillen almost was ready to anoint Danks as the winner of this fifth starter battle.

 

The meeting on Saturday morning, though, led Guillen and his staff to believe it was too early to pick one pitcher over the other. Both Floyd and Danks will continue to provide their audition tapes on the field, with Floyd starting Tuesday against Texas in Surprise, Ariz., and Danks following him to the mound for three or four innings of relief.

 

"They will be going the same day, not by design, not to put any extra pressure on them by putting them out together," said White Sox pitching coach Don Cooper of Tuesday's pitching alignment. "That's the fifth spot, and they will split that game pretty much.

 

"Somebody wrote something the other day that Ozzie would like to have [the fifth starter] finalized by now. [Heck], it's [March 10th]. How can we have it finalized by now? This is going to be going on, I'm sure, for at least a couple of more weeks.

 

"It's John and it's Gavin," Cooper added. "They both have jumped a little bit more to the front."

 

Much like Guillen's analysis, Cooper included Haeger's name in the fifth starter mix. But Cooper pointed out that Haeger also will be given a chance to show his versatility, meaning he could make this team out of the bullpen.

 

In fact, closer Bobby Jenks, left-handed setup man Matt Thornton and right-handed setup man Mike MacDougal were the only bullpen locks Cooper would commit to Saturday. Andrew Sisco figures to make the team as the second left-hander, and with the White Sox likely to break camp with an 11-man staff, two spots remain between David Aardsma, Nick Masset, Haeger and Boone Logan.

 

Logan has made five scoreless spring appearances, covering 6 1/3 innings, while the right-handed Masset was touched up for four runs on four hits over 1 1/3 innings during Saturday's split-squad loss to the Rockies. Masset suffered a bruised right shin when he was hit with a line drive by the last batter he faced but is expected to work his next scheduled game.

 

Once considered a possibility for the rotation, Masset solely will be looked at in relief for the rest of Cactus League action. Floyd, 24, and Danks, 21, both are products of highly publicized offseason trades, and each brings his own set of intangibles to the rotation equation.

 

Cooper sees both the pros and cons of breaking camp with a 21-year-old hurler such as Danks, especially having a second lefty to join Mark Buehrle. But nobody in the organization will lean toward one of these two just to make a trade look good.

 

"No, no, no. I will never change how I'm going to talk about someone, no matter how we got him," Cooper said. "I'm going to say what I feel, say what I see, no matter who it is, no matter how high profile or low profile a guy might be. That's just always the way I do things.

 

"The thing that's good about our [meeting] room, everyone knows everyone and we can all talk in a positive way. We also know what a guy needs to work on. What's going to happen here is they are going to show us what to do."

 

While Guillen rightfully raved about Danks on Friday, Williams explained to MLB.com how he was equally impressed with the work turned in by Floyd. As of mid-March, taking the fifth for the White Sox looks to be a win-win situation.

 

"[Floyd and Danks], they are just going to be special guys," Williams said.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Hmmm.

[DBAHO]

Rather it'd be Floyd as I don't want Danks to be rushed.

 

And Charlie pretty much has no chance at the 5th starter's job, because he can't really make a positive impression in that thin Arizona air now can he.

[RME JICO]

Tuesday should be interesting.

 

With an 11 man pitching staff all but guaranteed, that means 14 spots for positional players with 3 positions still up in the air (LF, CF, and 4th OF). Erstad is at least guaranteed one of those spots, with Anderson, Podsednik, Fields, Sweeney, Terrero, and Perez in the mix for the final two roster spots. I would like to see Anderson in CF, Erstad in LF, with Perez on the bench for his ability to hit LHP. Fields, Sweeney, and Terrero could stay in Charlotte and get regular ABs. That leaves Pods the odd man out unless they move him or someone like Mackowiak.

 

For the bullpen, they basically said two positions were available to (Aardsma, Masset, Haeger, Logan). Logan seems to have the edge as a Lefty and with his performance so far. That leaves one spot for Aardsma, Masset, and Haeger.

Edited March 11, 2007 by RME JICO

[jphat007]

Tuesday should be interesting.

 

With an 11 man pitching staff all but guaranteed, that means 14 spots for positional players with 3 positions still up in the air (LF, CF, and 4th OF). Erstad is at least guaranteed one of those spots, with Anderson, Podsednik, Fields, Sweeney, Terrero, and Perez in the mix for the final two roster spots. I would like to see Anderson in CF, Erstad in LF, with Perez on the bench for his ability to hit LHP. Fields, Sweeney, and Terrero could stay in Charlotte and get regular ABs. That leaves Pods the odd man out unless they move him or someone like Mackowiak.

 

For the bullpen, they basically said two positions were available to (Aardsma, Masset, Haeger, Logan). Logan seems to have the edge as a Lefty and with his performance so far. That leaves one spot for Aardsma, Masset, and Haeger.

 

It looks like the only way Perez makes it is if Anderson is sent down, but then we wouldn't have a backup centerfielder other than Mack, which is apparently not an option. Unless they trade Mack or Pods which is not going to happen. It's too bad Perez can't play a little bit of outfield and Mack was better in center. It would be great to have Perez bat in the lineup against lefties.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 10, 2007 -> 10:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It looks like the only way Perez makes it is if Anderson is sent down, but then we wouldn't have a backup centerfielder other than Mack, which is apparently not an option. Unless they trade Mack or Pods which is not going to happen. It's too bad Perez can't play a little bit of outfield and Mack was better in center. It would be great to have Perez bat in the lineup against lefties.

Or if Pods starts the year on the DL.

[jphat007]

Or if Pods starts the year on the DL.

 

Yah. But that's looking less and less likely. He's way ahead of schedule health wise

[Gene Honda Civic]

Yah. But that's looking less and less likely. He's way ahead of schedule health wise

So should we schedule his next hernia surgery way ahead of schedule too. Say April 1st?

[Heads22]

Lisa Dergan needs to break him in half or something, that way, if he gets hurt, no one can feel too sorry....

[BearSox]

Rather it'd be Floyd as I don't want Danks to be rushed.

 

And Charlie pretty much has no chance at the 5th starter's job, because he can't really make a positive impression in that thin Arizona air now can he.

How is it rushing if the player earns the job?

[DBAHO]

How is it rushing if the player earns the job?

Well I don't take much stock into ST numbers. Brandon McCarthy did the exact same thing in 2005, and then got lit up in the 1st half of 2005 whenever he was in our rotation because he wasn't ready.

 

Charlie Haeger's already at a disadvantage because he can't use his best pitch, so you can't really judge him on ST performances alone.

 

I look at what Danks did last season, where he put up a 4.33 ERA in AAA. He's only had 70 IP at AAA ball, so I'd give him at least the 1st half of the season there, and if he deserves it, call him up into the rotation at mid - season.

[shipps]

The thing with Danks is that he has needed to get roughed up to start having success at every level of baseball.If you have him as your fifth starter odds are he will struggle the first part of the season even if he does pitch decent throughout spring training.The plus side to that scenario is that he would probably figure alot out by the second half and be damn good.

[beck72]

If Danks wins the 5th spot, and then comes north and gets lit up, he seems the type to be able to go to AAA to work on his stuff w/o it harming him. If Danks was rushed up, though he earned the spot with his strong spring, he seems very capable of learning from his mistakes. I'm not too worried if Danks does take the 5th spot and then needs to go back to AAA. From what the sox have said about Danks' maturity, I don't think the sox would be worried either. The best man will get the 5th spot.

 

IMO, Haeger seems a lock to make the pen. He's got the versatility to be the long man and pitch in the 5th, 6th innings. No one else seems to have that ability to go 3 innings--besides Floyd if he's not the 5th starter. Yet if Floyd isn't the 5th starter, he should be in AAA throwing every 5th day as a SP.

 

That would make the last spot a competition between Masset, Aardsma, and Logan. Hard to say who gets the nod there.

[Gregory Pratt]

I really wish Haeger or Floyd would get it. I don't want to start Danks' arbitration clock.

[RME JICO]

I really wish Haeger or Floyd would get it. I don't want to start Danks' arbitration clock.

I don't think the arbitration clock is the #1 priority. If Danks gives the Sox the best chance to win, then he should be the #5. I wouldn't mind if either Danks or Floyd came in as the 5th starter and Haeger in the bullpen and as long relief and as the emergency 6th starter.

[Dick Allen]

Its pretty incredible to me how Danks is now the chosen one on this board after 6 innings of spring training pitching. I realize that Floyd probably isn't any good and apparently the White Sox have some sort of reluctance with Haeger. I think if you threw any of the 3 into the 5th spot, Haeger at the end of the year would have the best numbers, but I'm not sure if they would be good enough. Hopefully KW is working the phones for a stop gap.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 09:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its pretty incredible to me how Danks is now the chosen one on this board after 6 innings of spring training pitching. I realize that Floyd probably isn't any good and apparently the White Sox have some sort of reluctance with Haeger. I think if you threw any of the 3 into the 5th spot, Haeger at the end of the year would have the best numbers, but I'm not sure if they would be good enough. Hopefully KW is working the phones for a stop gap.

You should also take into consideration how Danks was originally another organization's top pitching prospect, so apparently he's less likely to suck

[BearSox]

I thought Sisco would be the long man out of the pen...

[whitesoxfan101]

*waves around proverbial John Danks pom pomps*

 

I'm sorry, but lefties who will attack the hitters and have that kind of stuff don't get their ish knocked in. I'm a lot more concerned about Floyd getting killed than Danks to be honest. Based on what I've seen, read, and heard.....the only way I can see Floyd beating out Danks in the senario presented in the opening post of this thread is if Freddy Garcia trade politics get in the way, and sadly that's always possible.

[Melissa1334]

It looks like the only way Perez makes it is if Anderson is sent down, but then we wouldn't have a backup centerfielder other than Mack, which is apparently not an option. Unless they trade Mack or Pods which is not going to happen. It's too bad Perez can't play a little bit of outfield and Mack was better in center. It would be great to have Perez bat in the lineup against lefties.

if perez doesnt make the team then who becomes the backup 1st baseman?

[Balta1701]

if perez doesnt make the team then who becomes the backup 1st baseman?

Presumably, for the 10 games or so where Konerko doesn't play, Mackowiak for most of them, probably Thome in a couple of interleague games.

[mmmmmbeeer]

If Danks wins the 5th spot, and then comes north and gets lit up, he seems the type to be able to go to AAA to work on his stuff w/o it harming him. If Danks was rushed up, though he earned the spot with his strong spring, he seems very capable of learning from his mistakes. I'm not too worried if Danks does take the 5th spot and then needs to go back to AAA. From what the sox have said about Danks' maturity, I don't think the sox would be worried either. The best man will get the 5th spot.

 

IMO, Haeger seems a lock to make the pen. He's got the versatility to be the long man and pitch in the 5th, 6th innings. No one else seems to have that ability to go 3 innings--besides Floyd if he's not the 5th starter. Yet if Floyd isn't the 5th starter, he should be in AAA throwing every 5th day as a SP.

 

That would make the last spot a competition between Masset, Aardsma, and Logan. Hard to say who gets the nod there.

 

 

Agreed...it seems Danks has a much better mental make-up than Floyd. After seeing each of them interviewed, just based on the way they responded to questions and such, Floyd seemed very uncomfortable. His demeanor didn't scream "confidence", while Danks certainly has that edge.

 

I just find it odd that this whole article fails to mention Floyd's spring #'s. From what I've seen, he hasn't been doing well. His "annointment" took place as soon as that trade went down, it's his spot to lose and I honestly can't believe he hasn't already lost it.

[GreatScott82]

I think Floyd will win the spot. Only because of his experience and his age. Floyd has improved his game starting w/ the Arizona Fall league and is looking pretty decent. I would much rather have Danks in there. Its always fun to watch a rookie go in there and light it up and thats exactly what Danks will do. Will he have a Verlander type season? That pretty difficult but w/ his talent i say he can win 12-13 games in his first season in the bigs. I'm definitley on that Danks Posse. So count me in santo!

[RockRaines]

Rather it'd be Floyd as I don't want Danks to be rushed.

 

And Charlie pretty much has no chance at the 5th starter's job, because he can't really make a positive impression in that thin Arizona air now can he.

Its seemed like he is being rushed, but the guy is clearly the best young arm in the system and has gone out and taken that 5th spot. If Danks ends up as the 5th starter, that trade has to look pretty freakin good at this point.

[FlaCWS]

I think Haeger makes the most sense for the 5th starter spot right now. Danks has been impressive, but I think a full year at AAA will do him good. Floyd has shown me absolutely nothing.