Rowand44 Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 01:06 PM) I just have no idea how 1 very nice win in KState's case can make up for so much suck assness in other areas. Or Drexel, 3 nice wins but 4th place in a mid major conference... I've said plenty of times that I don't believe K State belongs in, so I agree completely there. Don't discount Drexel because they play in a "mid major" conference. The top 4 in the Colonial are really, really good. Drexel also has 14 road wins, and 3 against probable tourny teams. The best true road win for the Illini is Northwestern? Minnesota? Penn State? You can make good arguments for Illinois but their resume certainly isn't flawless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chimpy2121 Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Well at least this will boost our SoS a little. We might have played three conference winners: UNC, Florida, and Wiscy. They have a possibility of being all 1 seeds too. Too bad we only beat UF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 05:58 PM) If you're going to use the injury excuse for Illinois you must for Stanford as well. They were missing Brook Lopez at the beginning of the year(when they got blown out by Air Force) and they were missing Andrew Goods for this bad stretch they've had, now they're both back. I was only using it to begin with because of Stanford. To me, the SC should not be able to grant a team phantom wins just because of injuries. It's stupid and it makes no sense at all. There is no guarntee any one player could have made a difference in any one loss. Besides, weren't they all back for their last game vs. USC? I'm not sure they were, but I do know they lost. If they wanted to actually use the flawed argument of injuries, then they had to win this game, but they didn't. QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 05:58 PM) They also have an insane amount of good wins compared to other bubble teams: Texas Tech, @ Virginia(only team to win there this season), Washington State, USC, UCLA, Oregon. This is what is so flawed about the selection process. Apparently it's better to be strong in one part of your resume and be terrible in every other field than it is to be solid in every part of your resume. Again, dumb logic. QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 05:58 PM) They also have 0 bad losses(just like the Illini). Stanford belongs in the field. Apparently you missed this: "Home losses to Santa Clara, Gonzaga, and California. Loss @ Washington. Oh yeah, did I mention they lost by 35 to Air Force at home?" Now I'm going to get lectured on how each one of those isn't. But in the end there is no denying that tourney teams should be losing to teams like these consistently. And Illinois lost @ Iowa too. That's one bad loss, albeit a better loss than any of Stanford's bad losses. Edited March 11, 2007 by Buehrle>Wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 01:14 PM) I've said plenty of times that I don't believe K State belongs in, so I agree completely there. Don't discount Drexel because they play in a "mid major" conference. The top 4 in the Colonial are really, really good. Drexel also has 14 road wins, and 3 against probable tourny teams. The best true road win for the Illini is Northwestern? Minnesota? Penn State? Drexel has losses to RIDER AND WILLIAM & MARY. Illini's worst loss @ Iowa. They do have 14 road wins, but c'mon. 50% of those are against RPI 150+. I am not discrediting their wins @ Nova, Cuse, and Creighton...but those 14 road wins are largely overstated. I'm not really sure why I chose to pick on Drexel, I do think they should be in. Also, why does it seem to be consensus that Purdue is in and Illinois is out. Edited March 11, 2007 by WHarris1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 01:24 PM) I was only using it to begin with because of Stanford. To me, the SC should not be able to grant a team phantom wins just because of injuries. It's stupid and it makes no sense at all. There is no guarntee any one player could have made a difference in any one loss. Besides, weren't they all back for their last game vs. USC? I'm not sure they were, but I do know they lost. If they wanted to actually use the flawed argument of injuries, then they had to win this game, but they didn't. This is what is so flawed about the selection process. Apparently it's better to be strong in one part of your resume and be terrible in every other field than it is to be solid in every part of your resume. Again, dumb logic. Apparently you missed this: "Home losses to Santa Clara, Gonzaga, and California. Loss @ Washington. Oh yeah, did I mention they lost by 35 to Air Force at home?" Now I'm going to get lectured on how each one of those isn't. But in the end there is no denying that tourney teams should be losing to teams like these consistently. That's fine and dandy, but that's not for you and I to decide. The committee IS supposed to take injuries into discussion, so look at that any way you would like. And of course the selection process is flawed, how the hell would it not be? And again, of course things are going to be weighed more so than others, that's just the way it goes. As far as Stanford's losses, maybe they shouldn't have lost those games, but none of those teams they've lost to are bad teams, especially Gonzaga, considering they had Heytfelt for that game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 10:14 AM) Not really sure what the deal is with anyone having Stanford over Illinois. But we shall see. Well I am not saying Stanford deserves it over Illinois but I will tell you Stanford is the better team. They played in a far superior conference and have quite a few bigger/better wins and there big struggles game with there best player out and he will be back. That said I know that in the end its what you done that matters but if two teams are left they may just go down to whose the better of the two and no one is going to tell me Illinois is a better team than Stanford. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 01:46 PM) Well I am not saying Stanford deserves it over Illinois but I will tell you Stanford is the better team. They played in a far superior conference and have quite a few bigger/better wins and there big struggles game with there best player out and he will be back. That said I know that in the end its what you done that matters but if two teams are left they may just go down to whose the better of the two and no one is going to tell me Illinois is a better team than Stanford. f*** no Jason, Stanford is clearly the better team. But that doesn't mean s***. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChWRoCk2 Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 12:27 PM) Drexel has losses to RIDER AND WILLIAM & MARY. Illini's worst loss @ Iowa. They do have 14 road wins, but c'mon. 50% of those are against RPI 150+. I am not discrediting their wins @ Nova, Cuse, and Creighton...but those 14 road wins are largely overstated. I'm not really sure why I chose to pick on Drexel, I do think they should be in. Also, why does it seem to be consensus that Purdue is in and Illinois is out. Illini and Purdue will both be in, some people put Purdue in for sure over Illinois because they think head to head makes a big difference in decision making which it doesnt. Heres my take: Drexel - IN Illinois - IN Purdue - IN Kansas State - OUT Old Dominion - OUT Florida State - OUT Stanford - OUT Air Force - OUT WVU - IN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 QUOTE(Jimbo @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 10:53 AM) Standford beat UCLA, Wash St., Oregon, those are good wins. All three of those wins are better than any one win Illinois had. That is why you will have people considering Stanford. Bottom line it pays to schedule and play good teams and no it wasn't Illinois fault fully as the big ten in general was weak but they didn't exactly have a top notch non conference schedule this year. I still say Illinois probably in because I think they have a good enough resume. The only reason I'm against Illinois and Purdue is because I think a lot of the wins are thanks to playing in a terrible conference and having a lot of wins against cake teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 QUOTE(ChWRoCk2 @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 01:49 PM) Illini and Purdue will both be in, some people put Purdue in for sure over Illinois because they think head to head makes a big difference in decision making which it doesnt. Heres my take: Drexel - IN Illinois - IN Purdue - IN Kansas State - OUT Old Dominion - OUT Florida State - OUT Stanford - OUT Air Force - OUT WVU - IN It'll be a complete joke if WVU gets in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 you guys may be screwed because NC State is making some kind of comeback. Well UNC is going close this out barring some sort of miracle which makes bubble teams breath a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChWRoCk2 Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 NC St is done, UNC is up seven with 50 left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Thank you Heels Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Brandon Wright looked real good. He is on my radar for a guy I wouldn't mind on the Bulls. He needs to add weight but he has some nice low post moves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 02:07 PM) Brandon Wright looked real good. He is on my radar for a guy I wouldn't mind on the Bulls. He needs to add weight but he has some nice low post moves. He'll be long gone unfortunately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 For me, I just don't see how the Big Ten can get 6 teams in. Illinois is the weakest of the 4 Big ten bubble teams. They won 23 games, but against inferior competition; they beat absolutley no team of any consequence this year. And they looked terrible in the Big Ten tournament. Stanford, Drexel, K State, ODU, Purdue, Indiana in my mind are all much better teams. If Illinois doesn't make the tournament, I won't have a problem with it. It's almost like a stats versus scouting argument. Illinois has a decent RPI and SOS, but anyone who saw them play this weekend can't tell me they saw a good team. If they get in, they'd be one and done anyway. Put in a team with some talent that has a shot at pulling a upset. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 02:19 PM) For me, I just don't see how the Big Ten can get 6 teams in. Illinois is the weakest of the 4 Big ten bubble teams. They won 23 games, but against inferior competition; they beat absolutley no team of any consequence this year. And they looked terrible in the Big Ten tournament. Stanford, Drexel, K State, ODU, Purdue, Indiana in my mind are all much better teams. If Illinois doesn't make the tournament, I won't have a problem with it. I dare you to rationalize KState over Illinois... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 07:20 PM) I dare you to rationalize KState over Illinois... Or ODU. Or Drexel. Or Stanfraud. Still haven't seen a logical explanation for any of these teams over Arkansas or Illinois. I'd also like to know how a team could play so terrible yet beat a team that is apparently a lock above them. Anyone? Edited March 11, 2007 by Buehrle>Wood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 Illinois has a decent resume, but what have they done that jumps out at you? Their biggest wins were the wins against Indiana and Michigan St. Granted they don't have any bad losses, with the Michigan loss probably the worst. Right now I would say they are in, but it wouldn't suprise me one bit to see them in the NIT. Stanford-out Air Force-out Drexel-out Old Dominion-in Purdue-in Ga. Tech-in Florida St.-out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hitlesswonder Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 02:20 PM) I dare you to rationalize KState over Illinois... KState beat Texas. Illinois beat Belmont.... The justification is that Illinois lacks a signature win (something Stanford, ODU, Drexel, etc. all have). Illinois has been consistent, but mediocre. And the "good" wins Illinois has are over MSU and Indiana, all at home (the United Center is not a neutral court). Illinois has an RPI and SOS that is based on losing to 2 teams that were ranked #1. Illinois isn't terrible or anything, but they're not a tournament quality team. And if Weber is such a great coach, why doesn't he switch to a Hi-Lo offense that uses his two best players (Carter and Pruit) rather than keep running motion with a terrible outside shooting team? I don't get it... Edited March 11, 2007 by hitlesswonder Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHarris1 Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 QUOTE(hitlesswonder @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 02:36 PM) KState beat Texas. Illinois beat Belmot.... BRILLIANCE. Good call dude...make a joke when you clearly have nothing else to say... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSoxfan1986 Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 02:26 PM) Or ODU. Or Drexel. Or Stanfraud. Still haven't seen a logical explanation for any of these teams over Arkansas or Illinois. I'd also like to know how a team could play so terrible yet beat a team that is apparently a lock above them. Anyone? Agree on Stanford and Drexel, not on ODU. ODU won at Georgetown, beat Drexel twice and VCU, their RPI is not much lower than Illinois, they were 24-8. They do have bad losses to George Mason and James Madison however. I do think both teams should be in though. Edited March 11, 2007 by WhiteSoxfan1986 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 So the most accruate bracketologists(collegeRPI.com) have Illinois in with room to breathe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 QUOTE(Buehrle>Wood @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 09:25 PM) So the most accruate bracketologists(collegeRPI.com) have Illinois in with room to breathe. I thought he had them as the last team in? Also, to add to the leak issue I suggested earlier, Lunardi now has Arkansas in the tournament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted March 11, 2007 Share Posted March 11, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 11, 2007 -> 09:28 PM) I thought he had them as the last team in? Also, to add to the leak issue I suggested earlier, Lunardi now has Arkansas in the tournament. Someone on another board said they were an 11 seed on there. I was assuming there was at least one at-large with a 12 or 13. If not, then I'm wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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