Surpised no one posted this (re: gays in the military)

[Jenksismyhero]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8...=1&catnum=0

 

Figured this would be a more hotly debated topic.

[Balta1701]

You just have to check out the more godless threads

[FlaSoxxJim]

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8...=1&catnum=0

 

Figured this would be a more hotly debated topic.

 

What's there to debate? Pace is a bigoted homophobe who has very different views of what constitutes an immoral act than the majority of Americans.

 

There has been a bit of discussion on it in the Dem thread.

[jackie hayes]

It was mentioned in the Dem thread.

 

It was obviously inappropriate. Even supporters of the policy should admit that. The policy has always been justified on the idea that it makes the military more effective, not on the notion that it acts as a moral compass for the nation. Pace is completely out of line.

[Rex Kickass]

I find it ironic that an arm of the government that has been involved with prisoner abuse of the worst kind in the last four years is lecturing anyone what is or isn't immoral.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I find it ironic that an arm of the government that has been involved with prisoner abuse of the worst kind in the last four years is lecturing anyone what is or isn't immoral.

 

BINGO!

[Jenksismyhero]

You just have to check out the more godless threads

 

Lol, doh. 'For Dems only' means Kevin doesn't read it!

 

I think the dont ask dont tell policy is fine. I see nothing but problems by 'getting it all out in the open.' It'll just create more situations for minorities (in this situation gays) to be discriminated/ridiculed.

 

I just have problem with the gay/lesbian groups that are so up in arms about this. It's this guys opinion. He doesn't prescribe moral code for the country, so who cares what he thinks? There are plenty of safeguards to protect gays from any sort of discrimination. It's not like he's teaching 5th graders to lynch every gay person on the street.

 

I wish people would grow some skin. Not everyone has the same opinions about things. Stupid or not, inappropriate or not, I think there's an extreme overreaction to his comments. Just my opinion. I'm probably a bigot for thinking that people still have a right to speak their opinions though. Even if they are out of touch with reality...

Edited March 13, 2007 by Jenksismybitch

[Rex Kickass]

DADT prevents soldiers from reporting same sex rape because they'll also get drummed out of the service as a suspected homosexual.

[Jenksismyhero]

DADT prevents soldiers from reporting same sex rape because they'll also get drummed out of the service as a suspected homosexual.

 

 

For being raped by another guy? I can see the guy doing the raping being suspected, but the victim? That seems made up. A crime is a crime, even under military law.

[Balta1701]

For being raped by another guy? I can see the guy doing the raping being suspected, but the victim? That seems made up. A crime is a crime, even under military law.

Link.

Testimony during the court-martial that resulted in Capt. Devery L. Taylor's conviction revealed an investigation made more complicated by the 1993 law prohibiting the military from asking about the sex lives of its members but requiring the discharge of those who acknowledge being gay.

 

Among other things:

* Taylor says that to save his career, he initially lied in denying he was gay, and that made him look guilty to investigators. He also claims some of his victims saved their careers by falsely accusing him of rape rather than admit consensual sex.

* Military investigators had to step around the law, telling servicemen they interviewed that their job wasn't to uncover consensual gay activity but that their answers would be reported to their commanders.

* One of Taylor's victims and another man left the military after being interviewed by investigators. The first man testified that he was gay and that Taylor raped him. The second man was forced into early retirement after he told investigators he had a consensual relationship with Taylor.

 

"When this law was sold to the public, it was said it would protect the privacy of service members, but it has instead put them in difficult positions where they have to choose between their careers and their own safety," said Steve Ralls, a spokesman for Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, which represents military members discharged for being openly gay.

...

But Ralls and other critics say it can attract sexual predators like Taylor to the military because it often discourages their victims, gay or straight, from coming forward for fear of being kicked out of the service.

 

"These people were victims of a predator who was able to be more effective in his predatory techniques because of a federal law," Ralls said.

 

Taylor, 38, was convicted last week of raping four men and attempting to rape two others. He was sentenced to 50 years in a military prison. His attorneys said "don't ask, don't tell" will be a factor in their appeal.

[Rex Kickass]

Why don't you ask Devery Taylor's victims?

[Jenksismyhero]

Link.

 

Nothing in this story says that a gay individual was kicked out of the military for being a victim of same sex rape. You have six people involved, two of whom left and eventually 'came out.' I presume the other four are still serving.

 

So in the end the only guy who might have had some trouble with the DADT policy is the guy who was convicted of raping five guys, one of whom conceded he was in fact gay, but still raped.

 

Plus this is just one incident, a bizarre one at that.

[FlaSoxxJim]

Since 1993 DADT has led to more than 10K gay servicepersons being kicked out of the military, so it's far from a small issue only affecting a handful of soldiers.

 

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../1008/OPINION01

[EvilMonkey]

Why don't you ask Devery Taylor's victims?

Gee, can you add a little more cattiness there?

[Rex Kickass]

It happened to Reichen Lehmkuhl too.

 

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,26334,1549383,00.html

 

Actor and model Reichen Lehmkuhl, who won season four of The Amazing Race and dates Lance Bass, was sexually assaulted while in the U.S. Air Force, he says.

 

Lehmkuhl, 32, tells ABC News that when he entered the Air Force Academy, he had to hide his homosexuality under the military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy. But his sexual orientation was the subject of speculation until one night, he says, when he was sent a message.

 

"A bag was put over my head," he says. "I was stripped of my clothes. I was forced to do things sexually with two other male cadets."

 

He hit rock bottom after the incident. "That's when you start having suicidal thoughts," he says, "and that's when you start saying, 'Oh my God. I am so stuck in this situation. I can't go to anyone.' "

[mr_genius]

prisoner abuse of the worst kind

 

 

that's a big exaggeration

[Rex Kickass]

Really? Lindsey Graham referred to it as "rape and murder."

[mr_genius]

since when do you care what Lindsey Graham says?

 

you can beleive the US routinely tortures and kills innocent prisoners. makes no difference to me.

Edited March 14, 2007 by mr_genius

[FlaSoxxJim]

Good to see nobody's too gay to fight and kill and die during wartime.

 

‘Immorality’ overlooked in time of war.

 

“The number of homosexuals discharged from the U.S. military under the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy dropped significantly in 2006, according to Pentagon figures released Tuesday — continuing a sharp decline since the Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts began and leading critics to charge that the military is retaining gay men and lesbians because it needs them in a time of war.”

[Balta1701]

The first American wounded in the Iraq war, who recently came out of the closet, appeared on CNN to discuss Gen. Pace's remarks. Video @ link.

[santo=dorf]

QUOTE(Rex Kicka** @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It happened to Reichen Lehmkuhl too.

 

http://www.people.com/people/article/0,26334,1549383,00.html

Something tells me that the ultra-conservative, religious type will blame the gays on this one because they allways have a spin with how homosexuals commit all the sexual crimes and how they are obsessed with sex.

 

Even if these two men were straight, the ultra right will still chalk it up against the homosexuals because it was a gay sex act.

Edited March 17, 2007 by santo=dorf

[Texsox]

Good to see nobody's too gay to fight and kill and die during wartime.

 

I hate to cry foul on someone I usually agree with, but perhaps the decline is because the military is seeing the light, or gay men and women are not buying the DADT story and staying away. You're a scientist and you know better than to make an A+B=C mistake when all the variables are not controlled.

[Rex Kickass]

Happened during Desert Storm as well, pre DADT. These kind of discharges aren't traditionally pursued with the same vigor when there is fighting to be done.

[Texsox]

I also believe that borderline recruits, those that are "leaning towards service" but not gung ho committed back off when bullets are flying. I would suspect that groups that do not fit the mold would be even more likely to just say no to military service. So there are probably many reasons why the military becomes less selective during war time. And I recall reading somewhere that self proclaimed (whatever the hell that means) homosexuals increased during the Vietnam War era. Of course we had a draft then. And btw Rex, if there is a draft, and if we do get to the point where 45 year old men are getting drafted, will you marry me?