witesoxfan Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 06:11 PM) When is the last time a White Sox rookie starting pitcher made it an entire season on the major league roster? Danks is thought to be a little green by most baseball people. Floyd has just been a disaster. Mark Buehrle. He wasn't a rookie by MLB standards, but 3 career starts and 52 career innings going into 2001 is pretty much rookie in my book. Considering how many veterans have been brought in during the past 6 years to be in the rotation, that's not a bad rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Mar 14, 2007 -> 02:28 AM) All I'm saying is, I never remember you saying it. Got any links? That's what I'm thinking. Be my guess and go back through my thousands of post. Nothing like have GPatt and jphat trying to team up on you to say you didn't say something. There's enough smart people on here that I wouldn't risk getting shown up saying that I posted something if I actually never did. Edited March 14, 2007 by fathom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klaus kinski Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Based on recent happenings-dont be surprised if the Rowand trade happens, Jon Lieber is involved too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawnhillegas Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 (edited) I still absolutely refuse to believe that we are bringing Leiber over. If we do, I will have to seriously rethink my stance on KW. Having a position of strength, forfeiting it early, and then making desperation moves to compensate when the s*** hits the fan..... But again, I refuse to believe it will happen. Edited March 14, 2007 by shawnhillegas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 08:25 PM) I can't recall a single time you saying that once, let alone more than three times. I'll vouch for him then (not that it matters at all). I was involved in most every Garcia discussion on the board last year, especially game threads and that is one thing that we agreed on. It was the only reason I could maybe tolerate having Garcia in the rotation in '07, I do expect him to put up better numbers this year. He just seems like that sort of guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(klaus kinski @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 10:19 PM) Based on recent happenings-dont be surprised if the Rowand trade happens, Jon Lieber is involved too Lieber will get freakin rocked in the AL. He had an near 5 era in the NL. Making this trade would be counter productive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 10:30 PM) Lieber will get freakin rocked in the AL. He had an near 5 era in the NL. Making this trade would be counter productive. 94 ERA+ last season and he'll be 37 years old in this year. I'm sure he'd do just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 I'll vouch for fathom on this one; I clearly recall him saying "Out of anyone, Freddy Garcia would be a guy who could magically refind the velocity on his fastball during his contract year." or something to the extent. He mentioned it several times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted March 14, 2007 Author Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 10:32 PM) 94 ERA+ last season and he'll be 37 years old in this year. I'm sure he'd do just fine. Sounds like a slightly younger, worse version of Count. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Kalapse @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 10:32 PM) 94 ERA+ last season and he'll be 37 years old in this year. I'm sure he'd do just fine. I love the logic of the people who make this crap up about how we should do this, or how we should trade Mac and other bullpen help for Lieber. We ditch players for prospects so in the end, we can turn those prospects into a 37 year old pitcher who isnt that good, and a 4th OF that is famous for smashing his face into the fence. The only good thing about this possibility, is that the Twins, Tigers and Indians might have multiple players on the DL when they all get into a fight at the bat rack. Edited March 14, 2007 by southsideirish71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 10:37 PM) I'll vouch for fathom on this one; I clearly recall him saying "Out of anyone, Freddy Garcia would be a guy who could magically refind the velocity on his fastball during his contract year." or something to the extent. He mentioned it several times You mean like this? QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 10:40 PM) I love the logic of the people who make this crap up about how we should do this, or how we should trade Mac and other bullpen help for Lieber. We ditch players for prospects so in the end, we can turn those prospects into a 37 year old pitcher who isnt that good, and a 4th OF that is famous for smashing his face into the fence. The only good thing about this possibility, is that the Twins, Tigers and Indians might have multiple players on the DL when they all get into a fight at the bat rack. I still have no idea why anyone would even want Lieber, I mean why would his name even surface to begin with? Oh yeah it's another case of "retardedchicagosportswriterthrowings***atthewalltoseewhatsticksandpeoplejumponititus" sweeping the board. If there's a single person on this board who thinks it would be a good idea to trade prospects for Jon Lieber can I please get a brief explanation of why you feel this way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 10:52 PM) He is probably a grinder. I am sure he is. Travis Hafner would grind him up and deposit him on the Dan Ryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Wait can pitchers be considered grinders? Oh my, time to update the "Grinder Index". I have to find a place for Mike Fetters, he always had the look and production of a grinder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted March 14, 2007 Author Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 10:57 PM) Wait can pitchers be considered grinders? Oh my, time to update the "Grinder Index". I have to find a place for Mike Fetters, he always had the look and production of a grinder. Kalapse, I would like to enter into talks with you about the production of The Grinder Handbook. It's basically a Grinder Index for grinders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(Heads22 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 11:06 PM) Kalapse, I would like to enter into talks with you about the production of The Grinder Handbook. It's basically a Grinder Index for grinders. Do you realize what kind of unchartered territory we're entering here? Just think about it for a second, there are hundreds of books out there that are considered excellent forms of reference for baseball fans who believe statistics are a huge part of the game. The people who often write off such publications as hogwash and completely ignore SABRmetrics and such are in fact the same people who believe in the notion of 'Grinders' and the soon to be formed religion 'Grinderism' (oh it's happening). So what if we could provide these stat non-believers with a statistic of their own that proves their idea of 'Grinders' as fact? The result? Lucrative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted March 14, 2007 Author Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 11:13 PM) Do you realize what kind of unchartered territory we're entering here? Just think about it for a second, there are hundreds of books out there that are considered excellent forms of reference for baseball fans who believe statistics are a huge part of the game. The people who often write off such publications as hogwash and completely ignore SABRmetrics and such are in fact the same people who believe in the notion of 'Grinders' and the soon to be formed religion 'Grinderism' (oh it's happening). So what if we could provide these stat non-believers with a statistic of their own that proves their idea of 'Grinders' as fact? The result? Lucrative? Our first obstacle would theoretically be to quantitatively measure grinderness, but the same people who would buy such a guide are already wary of numbers. Thus, we need pictures and flowery descriptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 (edited) Living Definition of a Pitcher-Grinder... Jamie Navarro. Others that can be defined as Grinders include: James Baldwin, Dan Wright, Todd Ritchie, Mike Sirotka, Jim Parque, Cal Eldred, Kelly Wunsch, Keith Foulke, Bob Howry, Josh Fogg, Kip Wells, Billy Koch, Estaban Loiaza, Sean Lowe, Bill Simas, Matt Ginter, Lorenzo Barcelo, Bartolo Colon, Rocky Biddle... basically anyone who pitched for the White Sox between the years 1998 - 2002/2003, the years where grinder-pitching made its biggest impact w/ the White Sox. Edited March 14, 2007 by BearSox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(Heads22 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 11:16 PM) Our first obstacle would theoretically be to quantitatively measure grinderness, but the same people who would buy such a guide are already wary of numbers. Thus, we need pictures and flowery descriptions. How about a comic book depicting Eric Byrnes, Darin Erstad, Aaron Rowand etc. as super heroes? I mean, in these people's minds these players already have super human powers such as the ability to immediately turn any s***ty team into a winner just with their presence alone (despite their below average production) and how their play on the field actually transcends statistics. If you're going to appeal to the lowest common denominator you might as well go all out. Maybe a pop-up book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 11:22 PM) How about a comic book depicting Eric Byrnes, Darin Erstad, Aaron Rowand etc. as super heroes? I mean, in these people's minds these players already have super human powers such as the ability to immediately turn any s***ty team into a winner just with their presence alone (despite their below average production) and how their play on the field actually transcends statistics. Would Mike Caruso be the super-villian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted March 14, 2007 Author Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 11:22 PM) How about a comic book depicting Eric Byrnes, Darin Erstad, Aaron Rowand etc. as super heroes? I mean, in these people's minds these players already have super human powers such as the ability to immediately turn any s***ty team into a winner just with their presence alone (despite their below average production) and how their play on the field actually transcends statistics. I love it. We need catchy nicknames. QUOTE(BearSox @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 11:23 PM) Would Mike Caruso be the super-villian? More likely, Brian Anderson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 The funny thing about mentioning grinders is that if we used our collective brains last year, we would have guaranteed that Erstad would be on the White Sox. What other players does Hawk gush over about their all-out hustle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heads22 Posted March 14, 2007 Author Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 11:24 PM) The funny thing about mentioning grinders is that if we used our collective brains last year, we would have guaranteed that Erstad would be on the White Sox. What other players does Hawk gush over about their all-out hustle? Well, Byrnes...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(Heads22 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 11:24 PM) I love it. We need catchy nicknames. More likely, Brian Anderson. Darin "The Anomaly" Erstad. Aaron "The Fence Eater" Rowand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BearSox Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 11:24 PM) The funny thing about mentioning grinders is that if we used our collective brains last year, we would have guaranteed that Erstad would be on the White Sox. What other players does Hawk gush over about their all-out hustle? carl yastrzemski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 11:24 PM) The funny thing about mentioning grinders is that if we used our collective brains last year, we would have guaranteed that Erstad would be on the White Sox. What other players does Hawk gush over about their all-out hustle? Darin Erstad has been destined for the Sox since the day KW was hired. That s*** was inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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