Sox @ Rangers, March 13

[jphat007]

So in your mind, how exactly do we determine the 5th starter? Will Floyd still be in the rotation with a 15.00 ERA come April if the scouts are satisfied with his arm angle?

 

Not necessarily the scouts. moreso the coaches. And we determine it by the stuff I just talked about. The coaches understand that just because Floyd has a high ERA doesn't mean that'll be the case in the regular season and vice versa on Danks. Now, if Danks keeps throwing strikes and keeps walks down chances are his numbers will be better than Danks and they'll ulitimately choose him. Unfortunately, everyone, or most everyone, knows that he could still get demolished once the regular season starts.

[witesoxfan]

we can't even do that right, see Gavin Floyd. he blows, and will end up as Heath Phillips one day.

 

Glad you can enlighten all of us with your extreme baseball knowledge.

 

And besides that, it would be an extreme transformation then, literally and baseball wise. Phillips is a junk ball pitcher who knows how to use his stuff, whereas Floyd has pretty good stuff and hasn't been able to figure it out.

 

I hope Floyd figures it out like Phillips has, because if he can, he's Roy Halladay or Chris Carpenter.

[SoxAce]

You can put it on the board, Terrero hits a dong off of Francisco. 6-5 bad guys.

 

Terrero has been pretty impressive even though he doesn't get talked about to a degree much.

[Flash Tizzle]

So if one guy attacks the strikezone and gets out without getting rocked and the numbers show it, compared to a guy who attacks the strikezone and give us doubles and runs.

Exactly. Am I supposed to accept the coaching staff's decision to select Floyd if what they see concerning "intangibles" doesn't match the statistics? What does it say if he's throwing strikes and getting smacked around?

 

If they believe his arm isn't loose, or some legitimate reason other than mediocrity, I'd wish someone would say it. I don't want to pick up the newspaper tomorrow and read Williams or Cooper tell me he did well when the results obviously suggested otherwise.

Edited March 13, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[jphat007]

So if one guy attacks the strikezone and gets out without getting rocked and the numbers show it, compared to a guy who attacks the strikezone and give us doubles and runs.

 

Well obviously they would go with person one in that case. That doesn't mean that person one will be the better fifth starter tho.

[southsideirish71]

Not necessarily the scouts. moreso the coaches. And we determine it by the stuff I just talked about. The coaches understand that just because Floyd has a high ERA doesn't mean that'll be the case in the regular season and vice versa on Danks. Now, if Danks keeps throwing strikes and keeps walks down chances are his numbers will be better than Danks and they'll ulitimately choose him. Unfortunately, everyone, or most everyone, knows that he could still get demolished once the regular season starts.

 

I would say that this means more for vets, because of an established pattern. They realize that Garland has a body of work, so his numbers may not project it. However with the kids competing you have to compare apples to apples.

[SoxAce]

By the pitches he throws. By how he attacks the strike zone. By how he goes about it mentally. The coaches understand what to look for.

 

 

Now, if Danks keeps throwing strikes and keeps walks down chances are his numbers will be better than Danks and they'll ulitimately choose him. Unfortunately, everyone, or most everyone, knows that he could still get demolished once the regular season starts.

 

You are very hard to understand.

[jphat007]

Exactly. Am I supposed to accept the coaching staff's decision to select Floyd if what they see concerning "intangibles" doesn't match the statistics? What does it say if he's throwing strikes and getting smacked around?

 

If they believe his arm isn't loose, or some legitimate reason other than mediocrity, I'd wish someone would say it. I don't want to read the newspaper tomorrow and hear Williams or Cooper tell me he did well when the results obviously suggested otherwise.

 

Well, I'm certainly going to believe the coaches over a bunch of ST numbers. If it keeps going like this I would imagine that they would pick Danks. But that doesn't mean he is the better person for the fifth starter positions. You just can't look at numbers with any seriousness in ST.

[Dick Allen]

I can't possibly see where the White Sox could come up with the conclusion that Floyd is capable of having any success in the major leagues at this point judging his past performance and his performance so far in camp. If he's the fifth starter, its because they think they would be rushing Danks, and they can't acquire anybody else.

[jphat007]

I would say that this means more for vets, because of an established pattern. They realize that Garland has a body of work, so his numbers may not project it. However with the kids competing you have to compare apples to apples.

 

I'm not saying you have to throw out all the numbers. I'm just saying that most often, they are SO much different than what you find in the regular season.

 

I'm not saying Danks isn't the better person for the job. He very well could be. But you can't look at his line and then look at Danks' and say automatically that Danks is more prepared for the job.

 

You are very hard to understand.

 

The second Danks is supposed to be Floyd. So confusing, I know.

[southsideirish71]

And Danks has given up 2 runs in the bottom of the frame, with it still going.

[fathom]

If Gavin Floyd is our 5th starter, it was never a competition to begin with. It's pretty simple with Floyd....it's been a long time since he consistently got out AAA and MLB hitters.

[quickman]

Glad you can enlighten all of us with your extreme baseball knowledge.

 

And besides that, it would be an extreme transformation then, literally and baseball wise. Phillips is a junk ball pitcher who knows how to use his stuff, whereas Floyd has pretty good stuff and hasn't been able to figure it out.

 

I hope Floyd figures it out like Phillips has, because if he can, he's Roy Halladay or Chris Carpenter.

[/quote

 

Ok, well phillips will have a very hard time cracking a major league lineup but triple A is a great career. Its nice floyd has all this great stuff, too bad he can't show it. he got paid an awful lot of money by Philly because of all that great stuff. We have a team that can compete we do not have the luxury of dealing with these young guys who can't pitch or hit. Blow the team up , and I am all for watching talent like the royals. 9 of 10 of these guys won't make it. Thats just a fact and the sox admitted they have not liked the way they have drafted the past few years, trouble is the sox have not changed much so they are forced to talk up there prospects and trade there asses away because of the lack of talent.

[fathom]

I can't possibly see where the White Sox could come up with the conclusion that Floyd is capable of having any success in the major leagues at this point judging his past performance and his performance so far in camp. If he's the fifth starter, its because they think they would be rushing Danks, and they can't acquire anybody else.

 

If either Floyd and Danks both aren't ready to start for the MLB club, then KW really messed up by trading McCarthy. I don't care if he likes him or not....at least he's ready to be a 5th starter in the majors. I liked the McCarthy trade, but the timing is terrible with all of our offensive players aging and getting close to leaving via free agency.

[quickman]

If either Floyd and Danks both aren't ready to start for the MLB club, then KW really messed up by trading McCarthy. I don't care if he likes him or not....at least he's ready to be a 5th starter in the majors. I liked the McCarthy trade, but the timing is terrible with all of our offensive players aging and getting close to leaving via free agency.

 

 

fathom the sox will give every opportunity for floyd to win this. they will even force it, because they look like crap for getting nothing in return for freddie. In my opinion, Danks will be good but they don't wan to bring him in this year.They really don't have too, he is Buerhles replacement, he might come up when we are in third place at the all star break and we trade Buerhle for more prospects, hopefully somebody has a SS considering we can't draft one.

[jphat007]

If either Floyd and Danks both aren't ready to start for the MLB club, then KW really messed up by trading McCarthy. I don't care if he likes him or not....at least he's ready to be a 5th starter in the majors. I liked the McCarthy trade, but the timing is terrible with all of our offensive players aging and getting close to leaving via free agency.

 

I think either Danks or Floyd can do as well as Bmac will do this year. Obviously we won't know for awhile though.

[southsideirish71]

Danks line, 3 innings 2 hits 2 runs both earned 1 walk and 3 strikeouts.

 

 

I would like to see it against the starters.

[fathom]

I think either Danks or Floyd can do as well as Bmac will do this year. Obviously we won't know for awhile though.

 

If Floyd and McCarthy pitch this entire season as starters in the majors, I would bet my soxtalk membership that McCarthy would win more games and have a better ERA. It simply amazes me that Floyd is even being considered for the 5th starter spot....he's just not a good pitcher.

[jphat007]

Danks line, 3 innings 2 hits 2 runs both earned 1 walk and 3 strikeouts.

I would like to see it against the starters.

 

Only 1 of Danks runs was earned. Andy Gon had 2 errors. Not that it matters.

[southsideirish71]

Only 1 of Danks runs was earned. Andy Gon had 2 errors. Not that it matters.

 

Well to properly evaluate him, he needs to go in a starting role against more seasoned talent. I am sure that he can dominate minor leaguers, I want to see how he fairs against the big leaguers.

[shoota]

I've missed the entire game so I'm hoping someone can tell me how Floyd pitched. I'm guessing badly.

[jphat007]

If Floyd and McCarthy pitch this entire season as starters in the majors, I would bet my soxtalk membership that McCarthy would win more games and have a better ERA. It simply amazes me that Floyd is even being considered for the 5th starter spot....he's just not a good pitcher.

 

I guess the only way to compare is if they both go all the way. I'll guess we'll see in September or so. Possibly earlier. If I had to guess I'd say Danks would have the better chance to do it. Who knows tho.

[Flash Tizzle]

fathom the sox will give every opportunity for floyd to win this. they will even force it, because they look like crap for getting nothing in return for freddie. In my opinion, Danks will be good but they don't wan to bring him in this year.They really don't have too, he is Buerhles replacement, he might come up when we are in third place at the all star break and we trade Buerhle for more prospects, hopefully somebody has a SS considering we can't draft one.

I completely agree with this.

 

Garcia deal was just done horribly. In future seasons, if Garland/Contreras are delt, it should be for the best available package rather than obtaining an enigma such as Floyd. Gonzalez was a quality piece, but Floyd appears to me more of an addition done to prove, "HEY, we did get something in 2007 for Garcia!" I feel similarly about Masset. He'll be in Chicago opening day.

Edited March 13, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[jphat007]

Well to properly evaluate him, he needs to go in a starting role against more seasoned talent. I am sure that he can dominate minor leaguers, I want to see how he fairs against the big leaguers.

 

I'd imagine that he will get that shot.

[SoxAce]

If Floyd and McCarthy pitch this entire season as starters in the majors, I would bet my soxtalk membership that McCarthy would win more games and have a better ERA.

 

I agree. Floyd has better stuff, but BMac overall, is a better pitcher not a thrower. Floyd has all the talent in the world to be a top of the rotation type guy, but I'm not sure if he'll figure it out but I'll give him time. He might be mentally worse than Vasquez even though Javy has at least proven it when he was an Expo.