Sox @ Rangers, March 13

[jphat007]

I completely agree with this.

 

Garcia deal was just done horribly. In future seasons, if Garland/Contreras are delt, it should be for the best available package rather than obtaining an enigma such as Floyd. Gonzalez was a quality piece, but Floyd appears to me more of an addition done merely to prove, "HEY, we did get something in 2007 for Garcia!" I feel similarly about Masset as well.

 

How do you know that wasn't the best available package?

[fathom]

I completely agree with this.

 

It was my biggest fear the second we traded McCarthy. I remember how everyone on here thought it would be Haeger in the lead role....then all of a sudden, it's Floyd who seems like the organization favorite to be the 5th starter for NO FREAKING REASON.

[Flash Tizzle]

I've missed the entire game so I'm hoping someone can tell me how Floyd pitched. I'm guessing badly.

Bad, unless you consider the hidden intangibles with a 3.2 inning, 9 hit, 6 ER performance.

[SoxAce]

It was my biggest fear the second we traded McCarthy. I remember how everyone on here thought it would be Haeger in the lead role....then all of a sudden, it's Floyd who seems like the organization favorite to be the 5th starter for NO FREAKING REASON.

 

I still like Haeger winning it. I haven't said much on who should be the starter but that was my pick and I'm sticking to it.

Edited March 13, 2007 by SoxAce

[quickman]

How do you know that wasn't the best available package?

 

 

i know you didn't post to me, but if it wasn't the best package, then I would have just stuck with freddie until all star time. could have gotten more, or hell maybe we could have been in first place with him. i realize its hindsight, but the phils would not be giving up on there number one pick if they thought he could play. They needed pitching, and now we need pitching.

[SoxAce]

i know you didn't post to me, but if it wasn't the best package, then I would have just stuck with freddie until all star time. could have gotten more, or hell maybe we could have been in first place with him.

 

Me and you are on the same page. Like I said earlier on this thread, I highly, highly doubt that was the "best" package we could have gotten considering we rushed into a trade with Freddy.

Edited March 13, 2007 by SoxAce

[fathom]

i know you didn't post to me, but if it wasn't the best package, then I would have just stuck with freddie until all star time. could have gotten more, or hell maybe we could have been in first place with him. i realize its hindsight, but the phils would not be giving up on there number one pick if they thought he could play. They needed pitching, and now we need pitching.

 

I guess we had to open up some salary for our big FA signings, as well as open up a starter spot for our future stud Brandon McCarthy. Looking back at this offseason, I really am disappointed at what happened. We went from one of the top few teams in baseball to a team with some huge holes.

[SoxAce]

Bad, unless you consider the hidden intangibles with a 3.2 inning, 9 hit, 6 ER performance.

 

Hey, he had to attack the strike zone to give up those hits right.

[fathom]

How long before the rumors start up about the Sox making a run at Garcia when he's a free agent?

[Flash Tizzle]

How do you know that wasn't the best available package?

In Ken Rosenthal article posted last month, he mentioned how Philadelphia was surprised the asking price for Garcia was so low. I interpret that as meaning something else could have been added.

 

Gonzalez/Castro/Additional minor leaguer and I have would been happy. That's hardly blowing someone out of the water, but at least we have potential in Castro (either within the bullpen or rotation) and the extra piece, which sure beats the alternative of nothing.

[Balta1701]

I still like Haeger winning it. I haven't said much on who should be the starter but that was my pick and I'm sticking to it.

I think Aardsma is pitching Haeger into the Bullpen.

[jphat007]

i know you didn't post to me, but if it wasn't the best package, then I would have just stuck with freddie until all star time. could have gotten more, or hell maybe we could have been in first place with him. i realize its hindsight, but the phils would not be giving up on there number one pick if they thought he could play. They needed pitching, and now we need pitching.

 

I wasn't speaking to that though. Whether it was a good move or not. You never know what KW could or couldn't get at the deadline. I just wanted to know how Flash knew that wasn't the best package. He sure was speaking with a lot of conviction, so I figured maybe he had bugged KW's phone and heard all the proposals for Freddy.

[Flash Tizzle]

How long before the rumors start up about the Sox making a run at Garcia when he's a free agent?

That'll never happen.

 

Unless he's injured. Then we'll go after him.

[Dick Allen]

I wasn't speaking to that though. Whether it was a good move or not. You never know what KW could or couldn't get at the deadline. I just wanted to know how Flash knew that wasn't the best package. He sure was speaking with a lot of conviction, so I figured maybe he had bugged KW's phone and heard all the proposals for Freddy.

It very well could have been the best deal at the time, but teams always need pitching and KW was holding all of the cards. He could have waited them out. He could have asked for the moon like he did with Garland.

[jphat007]

In Ken Rosenthal article posted last month, he mentioned how Philadelphia was surprised the asking price for Garcia was so low. I interpret that as meaning something else could have been added.

 

Gonzalez/Castro/Additional minor leaguer and I have would been happy. That's hardly blowing someone out of the water, but at least we have potential in Castro (either within the bullpen or rotation) and the extra piece, which sure beats the alternative of nothing.

 

It could mean that, or it could mean that KW asked everywhere and Freddy's value sucked. We have ZERO idea whether KW asked for more and Philly said no or whether Philly would have even bothered to give him up. KW knows what he is doing though. It's not like he didn't know what Freddy's value was

 

It very well could have been the best deal at the time, but teams always need pitching and KW was holding all of the cards. He could have waited them out. He could have asked for the moon like he did with Garland.

 

You dont' know that he didn't ask for the moon for Freddy.

[fathom]

It very well could have been the best deal at the time, but teams always need pitching and KW was holding all of the cards. He could have waited them out. He could have asked for the moon like he did with Garland.

 

The Rockies package for Jennings blows our package out of the water. I know Jennings is better than Garcia, but at least the Rockies got likely 3 MLB players out of it. At this point, we might be lucky to get 1 from our deal.

[Dick Allen]

It could mean that, or it could mean that KW asked everywhere and Freddy's value sucked. We have ZERO idea whether KW asked for more and Philly said no or whether Philly would have even bothered to give him up. KW knows what he is doing though. It's not like he didn't know what Freddy's value was

You dont' know that he didn't ask for the moon for Freddy.

He might have, but he settle for something reasonable. Personally, I think Garcia will suck in 2007. He's only pitched 3 innings in ST. I am glad they traded him and got something for him. Gio is one of my favorites. For 2007 this isn't a good trade unless the White Sox used the money on an average starter or kept the one guy capable of being average, the guy that 70 guys Peter Gammons polled claimed was the top candidate for a breakout season. The Garcia trade was fine while they had McCarthy.

[Flash Tizzle]

He sure was speaking with a lot of conviction, so I figured maybe he had bugged KW's phone and heard all the proposals for Freddy.

Best moves, non-Gary Sheffield division:

 

1. The Phillies' acquisition of right-hander Freddy Garcia from the White Sox for right-hander Gavin Floyd and left-hander Gio Gonzalez.

 

Some Phillies officials were so astounded by the White Sox's low asking price, they initially considered the deal a salary dump. Garcia, 31, is a free agent after this season, increasing his motivation to succeed.

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6466022

 

You'll only look foolish continuing to suggest we received the best available package for Garcia. Williams didn't do his job. It's that simple.

Edited March 13, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[jphat007]

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6466022

 

You'll only look foolish continuing to doubt we received the best available package for Garcia. Just admit it.

 

I don't care what he says. How do you know that KW didn't ask for the moon earlier in the offseason, and then came back and got Floyd and Gonzalez, two guys he wanted, for Freddy when he saw that Freddy's value sucked. Rosenthal doesn't know that? You don't know that. I don't know that we received the best package available, I don't have a clue whether KW did or didn't. My point is you dont' have a clue either.

Edited March 13, 2007 by jphat007

[Dick Allen]

I don't care what he says. How do you know that KW didn't ask for the moon earlier in the offseason, and then came back and got Floyd and Gonzalez, two guys he wanted, for Freddy when he saw that Freddy's value sucked. Rosenthal doesn't know that. You don't know that. I don't know that we received the best package available, I don't have a clue whether KW did or didn't. My point is you dont' have a clue either.

 

Philadelphia seems to admit they would have been willing to give up more for him. I think that's proof enough.

 

 

. J Contreras CWS 0 2 5.06 3 3 0 0 0 0 10.2 13 6 6 0 1 6 11

2. M Buehrle CWS 0 1 11.00 3 3 0 0 0 0 9.0 15 11 11 3 1 3 7

3. J Garland CWS 1 1 11.25 3 2 0 0 0 0 8.0 18 11 10 3 0 2 4

4. J Vazquez CWS 0 2 15.19 2 2 0 0 0 0 5.1 12 9 9 0 0 2 3

 

These 4 plus Gavin Floyd makes for a lot of WS DVD viewing in 2007. Its time to pick up the pace.

[jphat007]

Philadelphia seems to admit they would have been willing to give up more for him. I think that's proof enough.

 

That's nowhere near proof. You don't know that they would have done the trade. Maybe the Phils thought Freddy's value was higher than it really was. That is all speculation. Speculation /= proof.

[SoxAce]

I don't care what he says. How do you know that KW didn't ask for the moon earlier in the offseason, and then came back and got Floyd and Gonzalez, two guys he wanted, for Freddy when he saw that Freddy's value sucked. Rosenthal doesn't know that. You don't know that.

 

Some Phillies officials were so astounded by the White Sox's low asking price, they initially considered the deal a salary dump.

 

If you don't think that Rosenthal has any knowledge of officials/excutives within organizations of particular trades or signings, then you are more confusing than I would have dreamed.

[jphat007]

Philadelphia seems to admit they would have been willing to give up more for him. I think that's proof enough.

. J Contreras CWS 0 2 5.06 3 3 0 0 0 0 10.2 13 6 6 0 1 6 11

2. M Buehrle CWS 0 1 11.00 3 3 0 0 0 0 9.0 15 11 11 3 1 3 7

3. J Garland CWS 1 1 11.25 3 2 0 0 0 0 8.0 18 11 10 3 0 2 4

4. J Vazquez CWS 0 2 15.19 2 2 0 0 0 0 5.1 12 9 9 0 0 2 3

 

These 4 plus Gavin Floyd makes for a lot of WS DVD viewing in 2007. Its time to pick up the pace.

 

LOL. You are quoting Spring Training numbers.

 

If you don't think that Rosenthal has any knowledge of officials/excutives within organizations of particular trades or signings, then you are more confusing than I would have dreamed.

 

I'm sure he has plenty of sources. I'm sure he's been right plenty of times. But that doesn't change what I said. It's not proof at all.

[Flash Tizzle]

I don't care what he says. How do you know that KW didn't ask for the moon earlier in the offseason, and then came back and got Floyd and Gonzalez, two guys he wanted, for Freddy when he saw that Freddy's value sucked. Rosenthal doesn't know that. You don't know that. I don't know that we received the best package available, I don't have a clue whether KW did or didn't. My point is you dont' have a clue either.

Rosenthal is citing PHILADELPHIA sources.

 

I don't understand your inability to digest this information. It's almost as if you can't stand the thought. Hell, even with the evidence staring you in the face you can't admit that Williams clearly didn't receive all that he could have for Garcia.

 

It's this simple.....

 

Some Phillies officials were so astounded by the White Sox's low asking price, they initially considered the deal a salary dump

 

How can you interpret it any differently than Williams not asking for the best possible package?

[BearSox]

Looks like John Danks has pushed was up to first place in the race. I'd like to see Danks start and go 5 innings, with Floyd getting a different start and going 5 innings.

 

Looks like Danks also picked up the strikeout pace w/ 3 K's today.