Just what BA wanted to hear...

[southsideirish71]

Both Crede and Uribe were playing their second full season's in Ozzie's first year as Manager. Hardly Veterans yet both were given chances to play everyday.

 

Uribe had almost 600ABs for Colorado in 2002, so he wasnt exactly a rookie.

[supernuke]

For all 3 cases, I would LOVE for you to tell me the other options Ozzie had at the time.

 

 

I am sure some veteran off the scrap heap could have been found. After all Ozzie would surely play any veteran over any young player.

 

Uribe had almost 600ABs for Colorado in 2002, so he wasnt exactly a rookie.

 

 

That's why I said second full season. He was hardly a Veteran.

[Controlled Chaos]

I am sure some veteran off the scrap heap could have been found. After all Ozzie would surely play any veteran over any young player.

That's why I said second full season. He was hardly a Veteran.

They weren't established veterans with years of service, but they were in fact the established starters at their respective positions. They didn't have to win the job. So because Ozzie didn't come to the Sox his first year as a manager, and dump the third basemen the team had been grooming and the shortstop they acquired, is your argument that he likes young players???

 

I'm not on either side in this "young player" arguement, but this is kind of a stretch.

 

My only arugment is Brian should be the starting CF. I can give a s*** if he is young old or whatever. I don't know Ozzies reasons so I won't pretend to, but if BA is in the minors this season...our D is in trouble.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Kinda random but related, I guess...

 

What were anderson's numbers for RISP and in "clutch" situations, before and after the AS break, or where can I find them?

[Balta1701]

Kinda random but related, I guess...

 

What were anderson's numbers for RISP and in "clutch" situations, before and after the AS break, or where can I find them?

After the AS Break with RISP:

 

32 ab, 9 RBI, 8/32 with 2 walks and 8 strikeouts.

 

The only place I know of that does double situational splits (i.e. both with RISP and Post all-star) is MLB.com's stats, although i'll bet there's someone else I don't know about. Link.

[ptatc]

They weren't established veterans with years of service, but they were in fact the established starters at their respective positions. They didn't have to win the job. So because Ozzie didn't come to the Sox his first year as a manager, and dump the third basemen the team had been grooming and the shortstop they acquired, is your argument that he likes young players???

 

I'm not on either side in this "young player" arguement, but this is kind of a stretch.

 

My only arugment is Brian should be the starting CF. I can give a s*** if he is young old or whatever. I don't know Ozzies reasons so I won't pretend to, but if BA is in the minors this season...our D is in trouble.

Weren't alot of people trying to trade Crede because he just wouldn't hit enough? Alot of people were also skeptical that Uribe could be an everyday player because of his wold and inconsistent offense. Also with Garland while having logged MLB innings was trying to be pushed out because he could make it past the 5 or 6th inning under Manuel.

 

Guillen stuck with these guy when alot of people wanted to run them out of town. We have short memories here if people don't remember this. These players were succeessful because Guillen stuck with them for whatever reason. These players were not rookies but were all young unproven players when Guillen took over.

[Controlled Chaos]

Weren't alot of people trying to trade Crede because he just wouldn't hit enough? Alot of people were also skeptical that Uribe could be an everyday player because of his wold and inconsistent offense. Also with Garland while having logged MLB innings was trying to be pushed out because he could make it past the 5 or 6th inning under Manuel.

 

Guillen stuck with these guy when alot of people wanted to run them out of town. We have short memories here if people don't remember this. These players were succeessful because Guillen stuck with them for whatever reason. These players were not rookies but were all young unproven players when Guillen took over.

By a lot of people I think you're speaking of fans. Some fans maybe wanted to trade crede/uribe or run them out of town, but I don't think the organization had those plans at all. Like I said I don't really have a side on the "young" player argument. I don't know if Ozzie likes or dislikes young guys and I do't pretend to know, I just think these examples as proof he does, are poor. but anywhoo....back to Anderson

[Balta1701]

These players were not rookies but were all young unproven players when Guillen took over.

So why the Hell can't he give Brian Anderson the same treatment, and actually use Erstad as the backup OF he should be used as.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Weren't alot of people trying to trade Crede because he just wouldn't hit enough? Alot of people were also skeptical that Uribe could be an everyday player because of his wold and inconsistent offense. Also with Garland while having logged MLB innings was trying to be pushed out because he could make it past the 5 or 6th inning under Manuel.

 

Guillen stuck with these guy when alot of people wanted to run them out of town. We have short memories here if people don't remember this. These players were succeessful because Guillen stuck with them for whatever reason. These players were not rookies but were all young unproven players when Guillen took over.

 

There's no argument with Jenks. Ozzie could easily have gone with Politte or Cotts who were having fantastic years and were with the team all year. Hell, he could have said he's going with marte who had experience as a closer. But he felt that Jenks was the best option, disregarding age and experience.

[supernuke]

They weren't established veterans with years of service, but they were in fact the established starters at their respective positions. They didn't have to win the job. So because Ozzie didn't come to the Sox his first year as a manager, and dump the third basemen the team had been grooming and the shortstop they acquired, is your argument that he likes young players???

 

I'm not on either side in this "young player" arguement, but this is kind of a stretch.

 

My only arugment is Brian should be the starting CF. I can give a s*** if he is young old or whatever. I don't know Ozzies reasons so I won't pretend to, but if BA is in the minors this season...our D is in trouble.

 

 

Back up the Bus. I never said Ozzie likes young players. I was just trying to show that some young players have been given a chance under his watch.

 

I really don't believe that Ozzie dislikes BA because he is young. I think he dislikes him because he believes he is lazy and doesn't or didn't want to put in the work to improve. Weather or not BA actually is this way or not I do not know but that is how the situation looks to me.

[HeGone33]

Ozzie doens't like BA because he sucks and can't handle pressure. Plain and simple

[SleepyWhiteSox]

So why the Hell can't he give Brian Anderson the same treatment, and actually use Erstad as the backup OF he should be used as.

 

Eh, it may be the overwhelming soxtalk consensus that anderson is 100% the best choice, but I still have my doubts. This wouldn't have been an issue if anderson had not looked so atrocious at the plate last year. That's why I'm just gonna sit back and hope that the organization, which is much, much more informed on all factors for this decision, will make the best choice.

 

Actually, that's why I'm curious to see what his numbers were post AS break in 'clutch' situations because even though he was batting about .250 (I think?), I'm having trouble recalling if he had any relevant hits (and I have bad memory).

[HeGone33]

Eh, it may be the overwhelming soxtalk consensus that anderson is 100% the best choice, but I still have my doubts. This wouldn't have been an issue if anderson had not looked so atrocious at the plate last year. That's why I'm just gonna sit back and hope that the organization, which is much, much more informed on all factors for this decision, will make the best choice.

 

Actually, that's why I'm curious to see what his numbers were post AS break in 'clutch' situations because even though he was batting about .250 (I think?), I'm having trouble recalling if he had any relevant hits (and I have bad memory).

 

 

U nailed it buddy! Exactly the points I was trying to get across yesterday. Warning you though, people here don't believe the sox are really more informed than they are, and will be quick to point out all the screw ups of KW.

[supernuke]

So why the Hell can't he give Brian Anderson the same treatment, and actually use Erstad as the backup OF he should be used as.

 

 

There could me a million reasons why. There has been rumors that BA has been more concerned with living the high life than with working hard. Maybe this is all true and Ozzie doesn't want to reward that behavior with a starting job. Maybe some of the hard working veterans on the team feel this way too and would be pissed if he was starting. Maybe they feel temoprarily shipping him back to the minors would be the kick in the ass they feel he needs.

Edited March 14, 2007 by supernuke

[southsideirish71]

Eh, it may be the overwhelming soxtalk consensus that anderson is 100% the best choice, but I still have my doubts. This wouldn't have been an issue if anderson had not looked so atrocious at the plate last year. That's why I'm just gonna sit back and hope that the organization, which is much, much more informed on all factors for this decision, will make the best choice.

 

Actually, that's why I'm curious to see what his numbers were post AS break in 'clutch' situations because even though he was batting about .250 (I think?), I'm having trouble recalling if he had any relevant hits (and I have bad memory).

 

I bet the amount of times that he cost us at the plate was less than the amount of times that Mack cost us in the field playing CF.

[Harry Chappas]

Eh, it may be the overwhelming soxtalk consensus that anderson is 100% the best choice, but I still have my doubts. This wouldn't have been an issue if anderson had not looked so atrocious at the plate last year. That's why I'm just gonna sit back and hope that the organization, which is much, much more informed on all factors for this decision, will make the best choice.

 

Actually, that's why I'm curious to see what his numbers were post AS break in 'clutch' situations because even though he was batting about .250 (I think?), I'm having trouble recalling if he had any relevant hits (and I have bad memory).

 

You gotta remember the guys before and after him weren't really a threat to produce as well. I fail to see how Anderson would feel the heat less than Uribe who had a terrible year defensivly and offesively and had much greater expectations. He was going to hit in the 2 hole. He seemed to get off easy while Anderson and McCarthy were the whipping boys.

[HeGone33]

I bet the amount of times that he cost us at the plate was less than the amount of times that Mack cost us in the field playing CF.

 

Which is probably then offset by the times Mack helped us with his bat.

[Balta1701]

Actually, that's why I'm curious to see what his numbers were post AS break in 'clutch' situations because even though he was batting about .250 (I think?), I'm having trouble recalling if he had any relevant hits (and I have bad memory).

Even though I can't sort by that data as far as I can tell...it's worth asking whether or not in a clutch situation, close and late, Ozzie would have even let Anderson hit. He generally stuck Mackowiak in for those spots, especially if there was a righty on the mound.

 

Anyway, I think either way, whoever winds up as our "Starting CF", we're going to wind up having to completely throw last year's results out the window. Erstad played a few games in CF for Anaheim and got hurt, hasn't produced much offensively in years, and was moved to 1b to try to keep him healthier. Terrero had a good year in the minors but has sucked in the big leagues. Anderson sucked in the big leagues last year.

 

Basically, pick your poison. 2 guys who were good in the minors and sucked in the show or a guy who doesn't hit very much who spent the last couple years on the DL after being moved to 1b to keep him healthy.

 

Which is probably then offset by the times Mack helped us with his bat.

Not in the 2nd half of the year. Mack was a disaster with the bat in July and August. Anderson was quite a bit better.

[HeGone33]

Not in the 2nd half of the year. Mack was a disaster with the bat in July and August. Anderson was quite a bit better.

 

Im referring to at bats that actually had something to do with a win for the Sox. Face it, Anderson sucks and looks like a nervous b$%^& at the plate.

[southsideirish71]

Im referring to at bats that actually had something to do with a win for the Sox. Face it, Anderson sucks and looks like a nervous b$%^& at the plate.

 

I am sure that Robin Ventura would of looked like a nervous b$%^& at the plate when he hit .179 and .249 in his first 2 season. I am sure that you would of crapped over him and wanted him moved. But then again hindsight is 20/20.

[StrangeSox]

I am sure that Robin Ventura would of looked like a nervous b$%^& at the plate when he hit .179 and .249 in his first 2 season. I am sure that you would of crapped over him and wanted him moved. But then again hindsight is 20/20.

+1

 

Anderson was consistently good in the outfield last year. He showed significant improvement over the course of his first full season in the majors. He's had a good ST so far. I don't get why people are saying that he sucks.

 

edit: I'm sure it didn't help that he was often thrown out there against tough lefties and was sat for weak righties all season long.

Edited March 14, 2007 by StrangeSox

[HeGone33]

I am sure that Robin Ventura would of looked like a nervous b$%^& at the plate when he hit .179 and .249 in his first 2 season. I am sure that you would of crapped over him and wanted him moved. But then again hindsight is 20/20.

 

Ok, I'll stop, I didn't know he was the next Robin Ventura.

 

Does anyone here realize that what Robin did is rare? In other words, not the common.

 

Why don't we just have one thread title "BA is God"

[Kalapse]

I am sure that Robin Ventura would of looked like a nervous b$%^& at the plate when he hit .179 and .249 in his first 2 season. I am sure that you would of crapped over him and wanted him moved. But then again hindsight is 20/20.

Talk about pulling no weight what so ever. I really can't take a person like that seriously. Come up with a new line outside of "he sucks". I may dislike a player like Podsednik but atleast I'm able to convey my dislike for him in a more creative an adult way than "he sucks and looks like a scared little b****."

 

It's seriously amazing how little patience some people have in young players. Not everyone succeeds right off the bat, a whole lot of good baseball players fail early in their career before adjusting to the advanced competition. If John Danks wins the 5th spot this year and s***s his pants, I fully expect him to get the same treatment that Anderson and to a bit lesser extent, McCarthy have received.

 

Have some patients, the 2007 season is not riding on the success of Brian Anderson but the future might. Atleast that's how KW has set it up.

 

Ok, I'll stop, I didn't know he was the next Robin Ventura.

 

Does anyone here realize that what Robin did is rare? In other words, not the common.

 

Why don't we just have one thread title "BA is God"

Hyperbole is also insanely lame.

[StrangeSox]

Ok, I'll stop, I didn't know he was the next Robin Ventura.

 

Does anyone here realize that what Robin did is rare? In other words, not the common.

 

Why don't we just have one thread title "BA is God"

 

How common is it for a player put in Anderson's position to perform significantly better than he did in his first year in the majors? Great defense, decent second half at the plate, all while being platooned and not getting consistent playing time.

[Balta1701]

Ok, I'll stop, I didn't know he was the next Robin Ventura.

 

Does anyone here realize that what Robin did is rare? In other words, not the common.

I don't think that coming up from the minors and struggling with the bat in the big leagues, especially for a few initial months or the first year, is all that uncommon at all.