Dee and Deron recruited Sherron Collins to Kansas

[hitlesswonder]

Considering we all know what player I'm referring to, and that some of us are from the south suburbs, maybe I might just know this person's coach and best friend?

 

http://www.sportsline.com/collegebasketball/story/10064832

 

Some more positive vibes for the program. I know there's a lot of good people who are Illini fans on here, but there needs to be some changes made with this athletic dept.

 

Well, I have to agree with the article you linked to -- from what was written there a change really should be made.

 

FWIW, Doyel really is just about as obnoxious as the person he's writing about. I like how he pats himself on the back for realizing Weber couldn't recruit back in 2005 (wow Gregg, that's way before anyone else -- you sure are smart). I also like how he's actually smarter than both the coaches involved in this game. I'm not even sure why he watches basketball, it must be boring for him. Finally, I think you can lay ILL's lack of improvement over the season at Weber's feet, but I don't buy Greenberg's technical counting as "outcoaching" Weber. If the refs were cowed by that, they just suck at being refs.

 

Anyway, I feel a little bad for Weber, who clearly should have stayed at SIU where he was happy (maybe he can go back if Lowey leaves). And most of all, I feel bad for players coming in like McCamey, who has talent and would be much better off going to someplace with a functional basketball program and a coach that could help him to a professional career. It's too bad Dee and Deron didn't get their message to him that ILL is a place to avoid.

[whitesoxfan101]

First of all, I said in 2005 Bruce not being able to recruit would cause a downfall, however I had no idea it would be that fast. Second, Doyel is out of his mind normally, but I can't argue with a word of that article.

[nitetrain8601]

First of all, I said in 2005 Bruce not being able to recruit would cause a downfall, however I had no idea it would be that fast. Second, Doyel is out of his mind normally, but I can't argue with a word of that article.

 

I knew recruiting would be his downfall and you're right, I don't think anyone would think it would be this quick. Hell, he might lose Quinton Watkins for godsake.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Considering we all know what player I'm referring to, and that some of us are from the south suburbs, maybe I might just know this person's coach and best friend?

So you're telling me that Dee Brown told Julian Wright to go play at Kansas instead of with Dee at Illinois? Nice try.

[hitlesswonder]

So you're telling me that Dee Brown told Julian Wright to go play at Kansas instead of with Dee at Illinois? Nice try.

 

Wright would have joined Illinois the year after Brown left, so he wouldn't have been playing with him. Deny it if you want, but it's a story that's been repeated by several people. I think if you were to see Brown and ask him, he'd probably tell you it's true. Kansas is where Brown wants to be an assistant coach, not Illinois.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Wright would have joined Illinois the year after Brown left, so he wouldn't have been playing with him.

What? Wright is a sophmore, no? Dee Brown graduated last year, no?

 

...

 

...

 

 

I will deny it all I want because it is simply not true. If Dee Brown hated Illinois so much, why does he make monthly visits there, even with the hectic schedule of the NBA? Why does he continue to show great support for the university?

[hitlesswonder]

What? Wright is a sophmore, no? Dee Brown graduated last year, no?

 

You're right -- I was thinking of Collins

[fathom]

So you're telling me that Dee Brown told Julian Wright to go play at Kansas instead of with Dee at Illinois? Nice try.

 

He told Wright that he'd enjoy his stay more at Kansas. It didn't matter in the long run, as Wright thought Weber was a dork and that his in-home visit was comical. If Self never left Illinois, Wright would have been a 100 pct lock to go there. Why's it so hard to believe when there's a quote in the media how Dee might have done a similar thing with Sherron Collins?

[nitetrain8601]

He told Wright that he'd enjoy his stay more at Kansas. It didn't matter in the long run, as Wright thought Weber was a dork and that his in-home visit was comical. If Self never left Illinois, Wright would have been a 100 pct lock to go there. Why's it so hard to believe when there's a quote in the media how Dee might have done a similar thing with Sherron Collins?

 

I don't understand that either. Wright was definately a lock for Illinois until Self jetted out of there. I'm a huge Illini fan(2nd fav team behind UNC), but I'm not going to drink the orange and blue kool-aid these fans that are in denial are drinking. You need talent to go all the way in the NCAA and good coaching. Self was a good coach and he could recruit with the best of them. Is Weber a better coach? Yes, but not infinitely better where it makes up for his lack of recruiting.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Wright was definately a lock for Illinois until Self jetted out of there.

Or he was just out of his sophmorehigh school year and was a lock for nothing.

 

People who think Self just tore up the recruiting charts at Illinois need to know their facts. Deron Williams was no more highly touted than Demetri McCamey. Luther Head wasn't anymore highly touted than Quinton Watkins. Richard McBride wasn't any more highly touted than Calvin Brock. James Augustine no more than Brian Carlwell. The biggest difference between the two relies in one player- Dee Brown. Weber should have gotten his Dee in the '07 class. And he did for awhile, except this kid left Weber out to dry with no time to even recruit anyone else.

[nitetrain8601]

Or he was just out of his sophmorehigh school year and was a lock for nothing.

 

People who think Self just tore up the recruiting charts at Illinois need to know their facts. Deron Williams was no more highly touted than Demetri McCamey. Luther Head wasn't anymore highly touted than Quinton Watkins. Richard McBride wasn't any more highly touted than Calvin Brock. James Augustine no more than Brian Carlwell. The biggest difference between the two relies in one player- Dee Brown. Weber should have gotten his Dee in the '07 class. And he did for awhile, except this kid left Weber out to dry with no time to even recruit anyone else.

 

There's a difference, Self was still bringing them up, Weber had a team full of Self's recruits that was already handed to him. And again, apparently Quinton Watkins is thinking about going to Arizona instead now as he didn't even sign a LOI. Rich McBride was way more touted than Calvin Brock. Brock's stock only picked up his senior year. Everyone though McBride would eventually develop into a special college player.

 

Self was reopening up the link between UofI and the CPL and it closed right back up as soon as Self left. Weber's players obviously didn't like him enough to help him out in recruiting and instead helped out the guy before him.

 

Self had Charlie Villanueva until he left along with Julian Wright. Sherron Collins was going to follow Self wherever, especially with Dee Brown advocating that. I think Scheyer would've been a lost cause, but Rose or Patrick Beverly would've been here. Heck, isn't Pat Beverly the one that said he would've gone to Illinois except Weber payed no attention to him. Funny how we wish we could have a player like him right now. Next season is going to be worse than this season for the Illini.

Edited March 18, 2007 by nitetrain8601

[Buehrle>Wood]

And again, apparently Quinton Watkins is thinking about going to Arizona instead now as he didn't even sign a LOI.

Says dumb internet speculation.

Rich McBride was way more touted than Calvin Brock. Brock's stock only picked up his senior year. Everyone though McBride would eventually develop into a special college player.

Fair enough, but the way Calvin Brock rose the charts during his HS season was unheard of. It was also Self's decision to go ahead and recruit McBride instead of his teamate Andre Igoudala when it became clear he could only have one of the two. I seem to remember Andre having a pretty nice career for himself.

Weber's players obviously didn't like him enough to help him out in recruiting and instead helped out the guy before him.

Why, because some guy on a White Sox message board name fathom said something? Or was it that quote from the newspaper that you continue to overreact to? "STOP THE PRESSES! DEE AND DERON SAID THEY HAD FUN PLAYING UNDER SELF! OH NO!"

 

Heck, isn't Pat Beverly the one that said he would've gone to Illinois except Weber payed no attention to him. Funny how we wish we could have a player like him right now.

 

Weber paid plenty of attention to him. When it came time to offer, the Berverly camp refused to send Illinois his transcripts. Why, no one really knows. He seemed to be ok to qualify. There was nothing weber could have done in this situation. This was all on Beverly.

Edited March 18, 2007 by Buehrle>Wood

[nitetrain8601]

Says dumb internet speculation.

 

And if he does end up going to Arizona, are you going to call him a traitor too and say that's not Bruce's fault?

 

Fair enough, but the way Calvin Brock rose the charts during his HS season was unheard of. It was also Self's decision to go ahead and recruit McBride instead of his teamate Andre Igoudala when it became clear he could only have one of the two. I seem to remember Andre having a pretty nice career for himself.

 

That was probably Self's biggest mistake because Iggy did want to come to Illinois and Self didn't think he was good, or at least good enough.

 

Why, because some guy on a White Sox message board name fathom said something? Or was it that quote from the newspaper that you continue to overreact to? "STOP THE PRESSES! DEE AND DERON SAID THEY HAD FUN PLAYING UNDER SELF! OH NO!"

 

No, not because some guy on a message board said it, but because that's been the rumor around HF for awhile now. JW has nothing against UofI, but he thinks BW is pretty much a joke as is his recruiting pitch when compared to other coaches.

 

Weber paid plenty of attention to him. When it came time to offer, the Berverly camp refused to send Illinois his transcripts. Why, no one really knows. He seemed to be ok to qualify. There was nothing weber could have done in this situation. This was all on Beverly.

 

I heard much different. Beverly wanted to come to UofI, but they weren't interested. Instead, they were just trying to attract the disinterested Sherron Collins and Jon Scheyer here.

[Jimbo's Drinker]

You guys have all valid points. I dont know if that guy to U of A is true, but recruits seem to use Weber to boost their rankings and then screw him in the end.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Instead, they were just trying to attract the disinterested Sherron Collins

One small point, but Collins was a silent verbal to Illinois, so yes there was interest. Some say it was a mysterious visit from Bill Self to his mother that changed his beliefs, but I doubt it. I don't think Bill is dirty past the fact that he hires people close to recruits. Weber just lost him somehow.

 

I don't mean to turn this into another Bill vs. Bruce pissing match like every Illini thread seems to turn into so I will just leave my final thoughts. It just bothers me about Illinois fans that Bruce is not even allowed to have a 23 win season and 4th place finish. Could they have been better this season? Yeah, probably. But it wasn't too horrible regarding all they went though.

[nitetrain8601]

One small point, but Collins was a silent verbal to Illinois, so yes there was interest. Some say it was a mysterious visit from Bill Self to his mother that changed his beliefs, but I doubt it. I don't think Bill is dirty past the fact that he hires people close to recruits. Weber just lost him somehow.

 

I don't mean to turn this into another Bill vs. Bruce pissing match like every Illini thread seems to turn into so I will just leave my final thoughts. It just bothers me about Illinois fans that Bruce is not even allowed to have a 23 win season and 4th place finish. Could they have been better this season? Yeah, probably. But it wasn't too horrible regarding all they went though.

 

Well I definately don't think it's acceptable, this is why:

 

They were an elite program for the last 6 years. Illinois basketball was definately top 10 in the nation and I'd say top 5 overall during those years as a whole.

 

Self recruited players without being in the Final Four, much less the championship game, but Weber couldn't keep that going despite doing what Self hadn't. Why is that? He's at a top program that was getting the most national exposure it's gotten in awhile, that almost went undefeated. He also played in a major conference. Why is it he couldn't keep the flow going?

 

Weber knew the players he was going to have this year. Why didn't he bother developing Warren Carter earlier? Carter was a 4 star SF recruit out of Texas IIRC. Why would you wait all the way until his senior year to get him burn? Calvin Brock should've been backing up Dee Brown and Rich McBride last year so he could develop and get his feet wet.

 

It's not only that Weber sucks at recruiting, he underachieved for a program that was doing great up until this year and his acts of discipline are a complete joke, especially compared to his football coach.

 

In summary,

1)He doesn't have top talent on the horizon when he should be.

2)He didn't win this year with probably better talent then he'll have next year.

3)His way of teaching his players are small slaps on the wrists.

4)His former assistant coaches are outrecruiting him despite not even sniffing the Final Four.

 

I could understand a down season if you're waiting for players to come though, but at this rate, we'll have to wait until 2010 for that freshman in high school to come and play for us and that's if he doesn't decide to go to Kansas or Duke.

[fathom]

One small point, but Collins was a silent verbal to Illinois, so yes there was interest. Some say it was a mysterious visit from Bill Self to his mother that changed his beliefs, but I doubt it. I don't think Bill is dirty past the fact that he hires people close to recruits. Weber just lost him somehow.

 

I don't mean to turn this into another Bill vs. Bruce pissing match like every Illini thread seems to turn into so I will just leave my final thoughts. It just bothers me about Illinois fans that Bruce is not even allowed to have a 23 win season and 4th place finish. Could they have been better this season? Yeah, probably. But it wasn't too horrible regarding all they went though.

 

I definitely don't think Weber should be fired right now. However, the program is in serious trouble when it comes to public relations. Nothing that has happened recently will make recruiting easier for him, and he was having enough difficulty before that. Weber might as well lose all of his assistants, as they've really been a disappointment. I just read that there might be some surprise transfers this offseason, and that might not be that bad. The one thing I'd suggest is that they don't sign Angel Santiago. Weber needs to make sure that the guys he's bringing in can be trusted on/off the court. Angel's past doesn't exactly make me confident he can do that.

[Jenksismyhero]

Well I definately don't think it's acceptable, this is why:

 

They were an elite program for the last 6 years. Illinois basketball was definately top 10 in the nation and I'd say top 5 overall during those years as a whole.

 

Self recruited players without being in the Final Four, much less the championship game, but Weber couldn't keep that going despite doing what Self hadn't. Why is that? He's at a top program that was getting the most national exposure it's gotten in awhile, that almost went undefeated. He also played in a major conference. Why is it he couldn't keep the flow going?

 

Weber knew the players he was going to have this year. Why didn't he bother developing Warren Carter earlier? Carter was a 4 star SF recruit out of Texas IIRC. Why would you wait all the way until his senior year to get him burn? Calvin Brock should've been backing up Dee Brown and Rich McBride last year so he could develop and get his feet wet.

 

It's not only that Weber sucks at recruiting, he underachieved for a program that was doing great up until this year and his acts of discipline are a complete joke, especially compared to his football coach.

 

In summary,

1)He doesn't have top talent on the horizon when he should be.

2)He didn't win this year with probably better talent then he'll have next year.

3)His way of teaching his players are small slaps on the wrists.

4)His former assistant coaches are outrecruiting him despite not even sniffing the Final Four.

 

I could understand a down season if you're waiting for players to come though, but at this rate, we'll have to wait until 2010 for that freshman in high school to come and play for us and that's if he doesn't decide to go to Kansas or Duke.

 

 

Underachieving? Weber has the 2nd best winning percentage in the nation behind that rat face from the east.

 

I'm so tired of this crap talk. If they guy doesn't get lied to and screwed over by one recruit this is a total non-issue. Sorry man, I just can't fault the guy for losing out on him and then being screwed. He had the verbal for over a year and had no reason to think about a back up plan (what recruiting pitch would he use? hey we love how you play, don't really have any spot for you because we have probably the top recruit in the nation coming in, but do you want to come anyway if he backs out?)

 

I've been a die hard Illini fan since I was able to understand sports. My family has had season tickets to basketball and football since I was 5. But I hate this fallacy that the 'illini nation' has that we went from nobodys to an elite program that should be contending for national titles every year. We've had two legitimate shots in the last 2 decades. Yeah, there were some good teams in the mix as well, but we've NEVER had the expectation of winning it year after year until now.

 

People need to put things into perspective. I can't believe people consider this season a failure after everything that this team has gone through. They've had injuries and distractions the entire year. They haven't played as a full unit until about a month ago. Hell, the PG has a messed up MCL and he's still playing. I'm amazed the team got into the tournament, let alone in the position to win a game (which they should have no doubt).

[knightni]

Rat face?

 

Krzyzewski?

[greasywheels121]

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Even the illini apologists have to admit that some kind of change, whether major or minor, has to be made to get their program back on track. There's way too much negativeness coming from that program (not saying it's all true) for it all to be false.

[hitlesswonder]

I definitely don't think Weber should be fired right now. However, the program is in serious trouble when it comes to public relations. Nothing that has happened recently will make recruiting easier for him, and he was having enough difficulty before that.

 

That pretty much sums it up. Chris Head's accusations and the CPL coaches walking out of a Weber clinic because of how he treated them are now a matter of public record. While you can bet that those facts were already used by coaches recruiting against IL, it will only be worse now. People can dismiss Q Watkins reopening his recruitment as "internet speculation", but when it's reported in dozens of places it seems like it's gaining legitimacy. Who would you rather play for, IL or AZ? There's a reason why the IL staff made some recent trips out to California. Add in the transfers that are rumored to happen this offseason, and IL will be looking at essentially walk-ons playing major minutes next season. It's not a good situation.

[Buehrle>Wood]

That pretty much sums it up. Chris Head's accusations and the CPL coaches walking out of a Weber clinic because of how he treated them are now a matter of public record. While you can bet that those facts were already used by coaches recruiting against IL, it will only be worse now.

 

The CPL is dirty. I don't know what Self did(and he kind of didn't) to get a CPL player, but he is an exception. CPL players are not going to consistently come to Illinois no matter who the coach is. Coaches will try, but I don't see it happening.

People can dismiss Q Watkins reopening his recruitment as "internet speculation", but when it's reported in dozens of places it seems like it's gaining legitimacy. Who would you rather play for, IL or AZ? There's a reason why the IL staff made some recent trips out to California.

Maybe if you actually read the reports you will realize why it is speculation. To put it simply, they are taking precautions. They know they have to close it out. I just find it funny that Q Watkins has put all these rumors to rest with "I'm goin to Illinois" and "I know I can help next year".

Add in the transfers that are rumored to happen this offseason, and IL will be looking at essentially walk-ons playing major minutes next season. It's not a good situation.

*Sigh*

 

More internet speculation. Except I think you just made this one up yourself. Show me a source from even a CBB message board and maybe I'll believe you. The only possible transfer would be CJ Jackson, who basically hasn't played an important minute in his 2 years there and won't crack the rotation next year.

Edited March 19, 2007 by Buehrle>Wood

[hitlesswonder]

More internet speculation. Except I think you just made this one up yourself. Show me a source from even a CBB message board and maybe I'll believe you. The only possible transfer would be CJ Jackson, who basically hasn't played an important minute in his 2 years there and won't crack the rotation next year.

 

Sure it's speculation -- I wrote "rumored", and I was referring to fathom's post. Aside from Jamar Smith, there are several obvious candidates to transfer (Jackson is one). If a guard transfers, you get Meacham and maybe even Wise playing a bunch of minutes next season.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Sure it's speculation -- I wrote "rumored", and I was referring to fathom's post. Aside from Jamar Smith, there are several obvious candidates to transfer (Jackson is one). If a guard transfers, you get Meacham and maybe even Wise playing a bunch of minutes next season.

Yeah, if. But why in the world would Chet Frazier? He's the only canidate since Brock I believe already used a non-eligibility year.