Jose Valentin

[Steff]

, Clayton was in all the balls that came to him and he every time he made the play that was supposed to.

 

What Royce Clayton were you watching??

[SI1020]

Clayton sucked ... good riddance to him.

Amen.

[CWSOX45]

Jimenez won't be able to handle short, let us wait for him to fully develope into a second baseman first.

 

unless we pull off a trade for a young shortstop, Valentin is here to stay.  the bad thing is even if we were to get a new one, it would mean our season is over as it will most likely be done as a fire sale.

Why wouldn't Jimenez be able to handle short..his natural position is short.

I'm sure he can reaclimate him self to short...

I say try Tony G at short, what have we got to lose? Graffy has shown he can play shortstop in the past and we know he'll hit over .220.

 

CWSOX45

[Rex Hudler]

Valentin's errors rarely cost us a WIN, so they're just numbers for people to count and complain about, not much else. His batting average is down about 50 points from his high in 2000, and that is pretty much where Thomas, Maggs & Lee are, and better than Konerko. Valentin does get to balls Clayton wouldn't dream of, and his error last night was a wide throw with the runner in the way of a straight one, to KONERKO, not Frank.

 

Jose' is the spark on this team with little spark this year, and has been since 2000, and was the reason we were 'ahead of schedule' then. They should name him Captain.

I disagree. Jose has not proven over the long run that he is a starting Major League SS. The team leader stuff is overrated if you don't produce to go along with it. Jose would be a good addition to provide depth to a playoff-bound team. He could play more than one position, provide a spark off the bench by playing 3 times a week or so. I just think his days as an everyday player have passed him by.

 

I also wonder if playing Winter Ball every year isn't speeding up his decline. As he gets older, it has to be difficult to keep yourself up playing so many games. The 162-game Major League season is enough of a grind.

[Guest Ncorgbl]

Valentin's errors rarely cost us a WIN, so they're just numbers for people to count and complain about, not much else. His batting average is down about 50 points from his high in 2000, and that is pretty much where Thomas, Maggs & Lee are, and better than Konerko. Valentin does get to balls Clayton wouldn't dream of, and his error last night was a wide throw with the runner in the way of a straight one, to KONERKO, not Frank.

 

Jose' is the spark on this team with little spark this year, and has been since 2000, and was the reason we were 'ahead of schedule' then. They should name him Captain.

I disagree. Jose has not proven over the long run that he is a starting Major League SS. The team leader stuff is overrated if you don't produce to go along with it. Jose would be a good addition to provide depth to a playoff-bound team. He could play more than one position, provide a spark off the bench by playing 3 times a week or so. I just think his days as an everyday player have passed him by.

 

I also wonder if playing Winter Ball every year isn't speeding up his decline. As he gets older, it has to be difficult to keep yourself up playing so many games. The 162-game Major League season is enough of a grind.

I might agree if the rest of the team were producing and he wasn't, but as it stands it's just not him.

He's been on Jiminez and others to get into the game all year, and since he's been here, and runs the bases like no one we've seen in a very long time. A break here or there and he's back to .250-.275. Make him team Captain and I think the whole team would get off on it. It might be all we need.

[Rex Hudler]

Valentin's errors rarely cost us a WIN, so they're just numbers for people to count and complain about, not much else. His batting average is down about 50 points from his high in 2000, and that is pretty much where Thomas, Maggs & Lee are, and better than Konerko. Valentin does get to balls Clayton wouldn't dream of, and his error last night was a wide throw with the runner in the way of a straight one, to KONERKO, not Frank.

 

Jose' is the spark on this team with little spark this year, and has been since 2000, and was the reason we were 'ahead of schedule' then. They should name him Captain.

I disagree. Jose has not proven over the long run that he is a starting Major League SS. The team leader stuff is overrated if you don't produce to go along with it. Jose would be a good addition to provide depth to a playoff-bound team. He could play more than one position, provide a spark off the bench by playing 3 times a week or so. I just think his days as an everyday player have passed him by.

 

I also wonder if playing Winter Ball every year isn't speeding up his decline. As he gets older, it has to be difficult to keep yourself up playing so many games. The 162-game Major League season is enough of a grind.

I might agree if the rest of the team were producing and he wasn't, but as it stands it's just not him.

He's been on Jiminez and others to get into the game all year, and since he's been here, and runs the bases like no one we've seen in a very long time. A break here or there and he's back to .250-.275. Make him team Captain and I think the whole team would get off on it. It might be all we need.

I'm not trying to place the blame on him for the team's lack of success nor am I saying he doesn't add value to a club. Hence my thoughts that he would be a good bench player for the Yankees or someone. I just don't think he is a starting SS in the Big Leagues.

[Jim Fainter]

The problem with the shortstop position isn't this year, it's next year. We'll get by for the rest of 2003, but Jose will be a year older and slower next year, and his skills will further deteriorriate. If I were the owner, I would not want to have to pick up that $5 MM option for 2004 on Jose. Believe it or not, the best option on the current roster/organization for shortstop in 2004 is Tony G. We need to make a trade sometime soon.

[elrockinMT]

Jose Valentin is the SS for the Sox. He is a good heads up, hustling ball player, who does whatever he is asked to for the team. He tries to hard sometimes and I think if he reined in some of that hustle he would be better defensively. I believe he will get hot and the second half will be better. I don't see the Sox going after anyone else for SS at this point anyway. We don't have the money to spend, or at least JR says he doesn't, and if we get a new SS it will be from our own system. That's my take anyway.

[clujer420]

Jose Valentin is the SS for the Sox. He is a good heads up, hustling ball player, who does whatever he is asked to for the team. He tries to hard sometimes and I think if he reined in some of that hustle he would be better defensively. I believe he will get hot and the second half will be better. I don't see the Sox going after anyone else for SS at this point anyway. We don't have the money to spend, or at least JR says he doesn't, and if we get a new SS it will be from our own system. That's my take anyway.

Chicago is the #3 market in the US and our payroll is middle-of-the-pack. The Sox have plenty of money to spend if JR so-desired.

[IlliniKrush]

I was way more pissed off with Olivo almost blowing the tag up on the fly ball to right center than i was the Valentin tag. It's a mistake, but it was a tricky slide, that's for sure. He deserves some credit for that slide. But Valentin should have stepped up to him more once he had the ball

[BrandoFan]

.

He's pretty much becoming an automatic out and rally killer, and his excessive errors are sickening

 

While I can't defend his lack of hitting, anymore (though to be fair, he is 4th on this team in runs scored, trailing the leader Thomas by only 4, and has been very good once reached on base, so I'll give his 320 obp a break for now....his RISP numbers are also over 200-215 now, up from 140 I believe, lol). He is healthy, I know the batspeed is there but the pitch selection is not (surprise, surprise, it's the same story with everyone not named Thomas on this team_

 

 

Howeve there is no question his defense has improved as is now the second best aspect of his game behind base-running:

 

--His 10 errors cost the Sox only 4 runs (2 in Oakland, 2 in Minnesota). I have already shown how many MORE runs both Crede and especially no-range/no-effort Jimenex have cost the Sox (at last count dating back to mid-June, Jimenez was close to double digits). Hell, Crede's 1st inning f*** up against Boston and DJ's dropped ball in Oakland BOTH accounted for 3 runs and had effectively cost us games, we lost 4-3 and 6-1 respectively. Think about it: they almost matched Jose's season total in one inning! And don't get me started on Konerko's early season defense....Graff had 5 runs charged to him with a botched DP and then a lazy FO thgrow to Crede in one inning alone in Toronto, for crying out loud!.........Last night's throw notwishstanding, Jose has vastly improved the ark on his throw to 1st and that has been the reason why he commited only2 errors in his last 30 games or so.

 

His excessive errors (10) are "sickening" says Clujer? Then what do you call Berroa (19)? Or Furcal (18)? Maybe Lopez (15)? Woodward and Enfante (14 and 13)? Garciappara and Tejada (12)? Renteria (10)? Aurillia (9)?? Vasquez (8)? Vizquel (7)? Guzman (7)? Jeter has only 6 errors but in 230 innings LESS spent at SS...how many runs those stiffs cost their respective team I wonder? I know it's more than 4...

 

THEN factor in spectacular plays Jose makes (he had 3 in Sunday game against the Cubs alone, twice warranting mention from Chimp and Stoney...heck even in last night's admittedly ugly for him game he twice kept the runner from reaching second base with two good plays)......in addition to Jose sporting the 6h best DP/inning ratio and also being ranked 6th in ZoneRating in ML, distinctions apparently lost on most people here...but they do stranslate into runs SAVED over the long run, you bet your ass.

 

Is Jose gonna win a Gold Glove any time soon? Probably not. But with his improved throwing motion and with all the other defensive assets he brings to the table, he is actually right in the middle of pack, maybe even--gasp!--slightly above average overall....In any case, he is certainly FAR from being the worst defensive SS he's been called this season by many frustrated, narrow-minded Sox fans.

 

(He kills the heralded Defensive Wiz Royce Clayton in DP/inning ratio...as well as in RangeFactor...in ZoneRating....and I know for a fact that at least one of Clayton's errors was a 2-runner. As far offesne gpes, Jose at his worst is still 75 OPS points better than Royce, he also runs better and if he starts mashing again, there is no comaparison between the two players. None whatsoever)

[IlliniKrush]

His defense is probly above average, that's fine. But his offense is terrible. He can run the bases, but he's not on base enough to show those skills anyway. He's more of a liability than an asset at this point in my opinion.

[CubKilla]

his range and arm lack too much to play short.

That's saying a mouthful. No way do I want to see Jimenez at SS.

[BrandoFan]

His defense is probly above average, that's fine. But his offense is terrible.  He can run the bases, but he's not on base enough to show those skills anyway. He's more of a liability than an asset at this point in my opinion.

If he is hitting 229, I agree with you. His pitch selection right now is completely shot.

 

But I truly believe he can bring it up to 250-260 range if he is healthy and his slugging will be close to 500 once again. Unlike his days with Milwakee and 2001, he is ocmpletely healthy right now, so all he needs is one swing adjustment and he will be fine.

 

There is certainly no reason to doubt the intangibles (running, defense and clubhouse leadership- everytime you watch a broadcast, he is laughing and talking with younger players, whether Latino or not....every time I, just watch it closely). His hitting right now is the biggest question. I hope he fixes that.

[BrandoFan]

That's saying a mouthful. No way do I want to see Jimenez at SS. 

Jose is twice the defensive player Jimenez (or Graffanino) is this season anywey. What makes you think he will be better at SS? lol

[CubKilla]

, Clayton was in all the balls that came to him and he every time he made the play that was supposed to.

K-layton should have been able to get all the balls hit to him considering he had a left/right range at SS of about 2-3 steps

[IlliniKrush]

If Jose keeps batting in the .100's against lefties the average will never reach there. that being said, he should never ever face lefties. That's Manuel's fault. His pitch selection is poor and he can't hit anything that moves. He swings and misses at way too many pitches right now.

 

Where his average ends up remains to be seen i guess

[elrockinMT]

Chicago is the #3 market in the US and our payroll is middle-of-the-pack.  The Sox have plenty of money to spend if JR so-desired.

I don't disagree, but we know that Reinsdorf pleads poverty every year.

[southsider2k5]

I have wondered this too, but actually on a different level.  I have wondered this before, but does anyone think Jose could have been a steroid user?  His career kind of fits the pattern bad years, then a huge break out, followed by tons of injuries, and now after testing has begun his numbers have fallen off big time.  Is this a crazy thought?

No one have an opinion on this? I am really curious about what people think.

[witesoxfan]

No one have an opinion on this?  I am really curious about what people think.

I personally don't think so. I mean, he's not huge or anything like that. He's a built guy, or so it appears, but he didn't go from super skinny to being huge like SamME did. And if you take steroids and get really big, you're going to lose some range at SS....more range then Jose has lost(very little to no range).

 

I really just think pitchers have figured him out and that he needs to make an adjustment. Pitchers keep throwing him breaking balls, and he can't hit them. Simple as that.

 

I will tell you one thing though. I'd much rather have Jose Valentin playing SS then DJ. If DJ played SS, it would be like seeing K-layton out there all over again. No range, no arm DJ....seems like we said that about someone else....like a year or two ago. Who could I be thinking of?

[witesoxfan]

JOse Valentin almost cost us this game and nobody in here has gone mad at him....I think DJ can play SS and he can be a Jose type but hitting.

 

Jose Valentin is hitting like Clayton, and Clayton had a much better D than Jose.

Rafa....no one got mad at Jose because we won, plain and simple.

 

DJ cannot be Jose at SS. He has no range and no arm. Jose has good range and a good, but sometimes inaccurate arm. And DJ has hit about as well as Jose has over the past month or so.

 

DJ is a piece of s*** just as much, if not more then, Jose Valentin. The only difference is the fact that Jose Valentin is making money, and DJ is not. And assuming what we've heard from Corg/HSC/Steff that DJ and Colon are being s***heads in the clubhouse, then that makes Jose more valuable then DJ. If DJ wants to brag about a .250 average, that's fine with me. I personally wouldn't be proud of a .250 average, but then again, I'm not a dumbass.

[southsider2k5]

I personally don't think so.  I mean, he's not huge or anything like that.  He's a built guy, or so it appears, but he didn't go from super skinny to being huge like SamME did.  And if you take steroids and get really big, you're going to lose some range at SS....more range then Jose has lost(very little to no range).

 

I really just think pitchers have figured him out and that he needs to make an adjustment.  Pitchers keep throwing him breaking balls, and he can't hit them.  Simple as that.

 

I will tell you one thing though.  I'd much rather have Jose Valentin playing SS then DJ.  If DJ played SS, it would be like seeing K-layton out there all over again.  No range, no arm DJ....seems like we said that about someone else....like a year or two ago.  Who could I be thinking of?

Man if he was sleeping with Frank's ex...

[Mathew]

No one have an opinion on this?  I am really curious about what people think.

I've never really heard anything about that, but I wouldn't rule anyone in the league out on that one. The one that was floating around a little while ago was that he might be older than he admits to, a la El Duque, but without any clue about either I dare not speculate.

[BrandoFan]

I've never really heard anything about that, but I wouldn't rule anyone in the league out on that one. The one that was floating around a little while ago was that he might be older than he admits to, a la El Duque, but without any clue about either I dare not speculate.

Was he one of the players who failed the drug test in ST?

 

I am pretty sure Jose is/was on steroids and is in fact older thank Frank.

[rafacosta]

JOse Valentin almost cost us this game and nobody in here has gone mad at him....I think DJ can play SS and he can be a Jose type but hitting.

 

Jose Valentin is hitting like Clayton, and Clayton had a much better D than Jose.

Rafa....no one got mad at Jose because we won, plain and simple.

 

DJ cannot be Jose at SS. He has no range and no arm. Jose has good range and a good, but sometimes inaccurate arm. And DJ has hit about as well as Jose has over the past month or so.

 

DJ is a piece of s*** just as much, if not more then, Jose Valentin. The only difference is the fact that Jose Valentin is making money, and DJ is not. And assuming what we've heard from Corg/HSC/Steff that DJ and Colon are being s***heads in the clubhouse, then that makes Jose more valuable then DJ. If DJ wants to brag about a .250 average, that's fine with me. I personally wouldn't be proud of a .250 average, but then again, I'm not a dumbass.

What is DJ and Colon are doing in the clubhouse? I dont know. But if they are on his own, whatever... He has the obligation to talk with the others? What i care more about a baseball player, soccer, basketball is : he is producing and making the team a winner. If he doesnt talk with certains players, this wont make the team worst or better.

 

People in here dont have too much patience with DJ, but with Jose they have since 2000. I have lose my pateince with Jose, if he was hitting something, but he isnt.