Dont Like This Move Ozzie

[joeynach]

From Rotoworld

 

"Manager Ozzie Guillen said Sunday that Darin Erstad will bat second in the lineup against right-handed pitchers.

 

That'll put Scott Podsednik and Erstad at the top of the lineup, push Brian Anderson to a platoon role or back to Triple-A, and means Tadahito Iguchi will slide down the lineup against righties. Between Podsednik and Erstad the fearsome middle of the White Sox lineup may not have a ton of runners to drive in."

 

I hate this because not only I do I not like taking Iguchi out of the two hole where he has been so productive and such a smart situational hitter, but he was awful against lefties last year, hitting .252. Why have Iguchi hit in the two spot only where he was bad last year @ .252 and not against righties when he hit .298. It seems totally backwards.

[jphat007]

Well, the funny thing is that he had a better OBP and SLG against lefties than righties in 05, so it's hard to get an exact idea of what he would do. I think our players numbers vs lefties are a little bit lower than regular because there are so many great lefties in our division, especially last year. They are tough to hit no matter what hand you swing with.

 

Though in an interesting case, Paulie was better in 06 against lefties than he was in 05. While OPS was a little bit closer, I think avg was diff by about 30 points.

 

But I agree with you. I'd rather have Gooch at the 2 and Erstad down in the lineup

Edited March 19, 2007 by jphat007

[joeynach]

Well, the funny thing is that he had a better OBP and SLG against lefties than righties in 05, so it's hard to get an exact idea of what he would do. I think our players numbers vs lefties are a little bit lower than regular because there are so many great lefties in our division, especially last year. They are tough to hit no matter what hand you swing with.

 

Though in an interesting case, Paulie was better in 06 against lefties than he was in 05. While OPS was a little bit closer, I think avg was diff by about 30 points.

 

But I agree with you. I'd rather have Gooch at the 2 and Erstad down in the lineup

 

Id rather have Erstad either hitting 9th or just straight up replacing Pods in the leadoff role. I can do without the tinkering that would affect on of our best all puropose hitters in iguchi.

[Flash Tizzle]

I belive the answer is rather simple -- Guillen is hell bent on featuring a lefthanded 1-2 combination of (supposed) speed.

 

Considering how every viable statistic within the last several seasons has favored Iguchi as an ideal 2-hole hitter against righthanders, what other explanation is plausible? It's not as if we're hurting for power and need Iguchi to drive in more runs lower in the lineup.

[Steve9347]

For me, the one thing I know is that Tadahito has been one hell of a productive 2-hitter... moving him is a bit odd.

[Harry Chappas]

Will this help Pods and base stealing as the catcher will not be able to see the base path from 1st to 2nd as clearly? Also will keep a pitcher from throwing up and away (semi pitch out).

 

The cray thing is I wouldn't mind Iguchi batting third in this situation and Thome 5th.

 

I don't know sounds like a goofy idea to me. Oz is the manager so I will defer to him.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Will this help Pods and base stealing as the catcher will not be able to see the base path from 1st to 2nd as clearly? Also will keep a pitcher from throwing up and away (semi pitch out).

 

The cray thing is I wouldn't mind Iguchi batting third in this situation and Thome 5th.

 

I don't know sounds like a goofy idea to me. Oz is the manager so I will defer to him.

 

What an amazing concept! I'm not going to act like I'm crazy about this move, but I'll atleast wait until we see what, one, Erstad has left and, two, if Pods is able to rebound from a miserable second-half last year.

 

As far as Brian Anderson goes, I've already accepted the fact that with Ozzie here, he has no place with this team. When Ozzie doesn't like you, you're either misused or traded.

Edited March 19, 2007 by Jordan4life_2007

[southsideirish71]

I belive the answer is rather simple -- Guillen is hell bent on featuring a lefthanded 1-2 combination of (supposed) speed.

 

Considering how every viable statistic within the last several seasons has favored Iguchi as an ideal 2-hole hitter against righthanders, what other explanation is plausible? It's not as if we're hurting for power and need Iguchi to drive in more runs lower in the lineup.

 

Now shockingly the Marlins had a lefty tandem up top also. Ozzie pretty much hasnt let go of the Marlins offense and is trying to elmulate it.

[klaus kinski]

I dont like it either-Gooch is a much better hitter against right handers than left. There's little to gain with a lefty second and a runner on first. I see more double plays this way

[Flash Tizzle]

What an amazing concept! I'm not going to act like I'm crazy about this move, but I'll atleast wait until we see what, one, Erstad has left and, two, if Pods is able to rebound from a miserable second-half last year.

I don't understand what the rationale behind this deal is.

 

If Erstad weren't recovering from an inury, and Iguchi having two consecutive years of decent production from the 2 spot, I wouldn't have a problem.

 

It just doesn't appear, IMO, to be the lineup best suited for victories. I'd rather have seen Guillen bat Erstad 8/9th, Iguchi 2nd, and if the production dictated a move switch around the lineup

Edited March 19, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[Jordan4life_2007]

I don't understand what the rationale behind this deal is.

 

If Erstad weren't recovering from an inury, and Iguchi having two consecutive years of decent production from the 2 spot, I wouldn't have a problem.

 

It just doesn't appear, IMO, to be the lineup best suited for victories. I'd rather have seen Guillen bat Erstad 8/9th, Iguchi 2nd, and if the production dictated a move switch around the lineup

 

Ozzie has wanted to move Gooch down in the order for quite some time now. He obviously couldn't do that with Uribe. They obviously feel Erstad is 100% healthy and capable of holding that spot down. I'm just going to wait and see what happens. I think, and let me stress think, if it doesn't work, Ozzie will have no problems moving Iguchi back to the second spot.

[bmags]

man i don't like this. I hope it works out, but i hope we don't dig ourselves a hole in april before we figure out it doesn't work.

[mmmmmbeeer]

Iguchi is a great hitter in the 2 hole, but by the same token Erstad is a helluva contact hitter. He strikes out considerably less than Gooch and, batting from the left side, may be able to avoid DPs with more ease.

 

I think the problem is that we're looking at Erstad as this old, broken-down player instead of concentrating on the fact that the guy can handle a bat regardless of his age. His entire career has been based around being a great situational hitter, let's give him some credit for his accomplishments and the fact that he can STILL offer that ability to this team.

 

I don't like the fact that he's pushing BA off of this roster, but he's here, let's use him as wisely as possible.

[shoota]

If Guillen wants to emulate his marlins team, he should demote himself to third-base coach.

[Balta1701]

So, as of today, Darin Erstad is hitting this spring: .275, with an OBP of .302 and a slugging %age of .333. Yes, that's right, he's having such a great spring that his OPS is at .635. He's also leading the team in strikeouts. And he's leading the team in at-bats.

[alk3kevin]

Iguchi is a great hitter in the 2 hole, but by the same token Erstad is a helluva contact hitter. He strikes out considerably less than Gooch and, batting from the left side, may be able to avoid DPs with more ease.

 

I think the problem is that we're looking at Erstad as this old, broken-down player instead of concentrating on the fact that the guy can handle a bat regardless of his age. His entire career has been based around being a great situational hitter, let's give him some credit for his accomplishments and the fact that he can STILL offer that ability to this team.

 

I don't like the fact that he's pushing BA off of this roster, but he's here, let's use him as wisely as possible.

He's best used very sparingly. Our manager is an idiot. I recognize his ability to contribute nothing positive as a regular.

[CWSGuy406]

So, as of today, Darin Erstad is hitting this spring: .275, with an OBP of .302 and a slugging %age of .333. Yes, that's right, he's having such a great spring that his OPS is at .635. He's also leading the team in strikeouts. And he's leading the team in at-bats.

 

Talk about going out and 'winning a job' in the Spring. Gosh damn did he earn it!

[daa84]

So, as of today, Darin Erstad is hitting this spring: .275, with an OBP of .302 and a slugging %age of .333. Yes, that's right, he's having such a great spring that his OPS is at .635. He's also leading the team in strikeouts. And he's leading the team in at-bats.

i agree with you that erstad statistically is bad...but part of me says id rather have him batting 2 than iguchi simply because if the #2 hitter is gonna be a situational guy that ozzie loves (not saying i agree with the strategy, just syain how it is) than why not have the guy who can only be a situational hitter there? Iguchi's potential for power is wasted having him sac. and hit behind the runner. so putting erstad at 7 or 8 or 9 is like having a situational hitter at the bottom with AJ/crede in front of them, which is not so valuable AND iguchi hitting situationally at 2. May as well let iguchi swing for the fences at 7 since he can hit some dongs if erstad can be the guy giving himself up..........

 

 

however, i do hate the fact taht we are using the #2 hitter to situationally hit when the 3,4,5, hitters combines last year for 120 HR last year......it should be someone who gets on base....which i suppose iguchi is our best bet....so the other part of me knows that iguchi is a better bet there.....i just hate the way ozzie uses him when he is at the 2 hole

Edited March 19, 2007 by daa84

[Frank the Tank 35]

If Guillen wants to emulate his marlins team, he should demote himself to third-base coach.

 

Lol... oh, that's bad.

 

 

I think someone should plant a bundle of unsent love letters to Lisa Dergan in Erstad's locker. I don't think anything bad could come of it.

[DBAHO]

Considering the same exact thing happened to Tad last ST and then Ozzie decides, "No we need him back in the #2 spot, because he's not hitting well in ST lower in the order" is a little suprising.

 

I think KW and Ozzie are hoping Erstad can somehow get back to that form in that season (was it 00 or 01, yeesh a long time ago) that he hit over .300 and was a stud.

 

It's pretty much the nail in the coffin for Brian Anderson's chances of making this ballclub as well, he'll be back down in Charlotte.

[TLAK]

So, as of today, Darin Erstad is hitting this spring: .275, with an OBP of .302 and a slugging %age of .333. Yes, that's right, he's having such a great spring that his OPS is at .635. He's also leading the team in strikeouts. And he's leading the team in at-bats.

They want to see if he will break down or lose his effectiveness. When/if they decide he's their man they will back him off and just get him ready. He's still under the microscope for the present -just like Brian.

[Balta1701]

They want to see if he will break down or lose his effectiveness. When/if they decide he's their man they will back him off and just get him ready. He's still under the microscope for the present -just like Brian.

A .635 OPS is virtually no effectiveness. Brian Anderson was around .610 in the first half last year, and .690 in the 2nd half. One more bad day and he's into "First half Brian Anderson" territory.

Edited March 20, 2007 by Balta1701

[Kalapse]

I think KW and Ozzie are hoping Erstad can somehow get back to that form in that season (was it 00 or 01, yeesh a long time ago) that he hit over .300 and was a stud.

If this is true then KW should be fired on the f***ing spot. That's just ri-god-damn-diculous. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Is there a reason the Sox haven't gone after Danny Graves yet? He was f***ing dominating b****es in 2000, Edgardo Alfonso? Richard Hidalgo? Jose Vidro? Jeff Cirillo? Luis Gonzalez? If they're really banking on his reverting back to his 2000 numbers then there's no hope for this team.

[BearSox]

Now shockingly the Marlins had a lefty tandem up top also. Ozzie pretty much hasnt let go of the Marlins offense and is trying to elmulate it.

Actually... it was a lefty-switch combo

[joeynach]

I think the point is that going Pods, Iguchi, Thome as 1,2,3 sounds pretty dumb. Especially with that many lefties you usually want to break them up to force the other team to change pitchers (relievers) more frequently. With those three up there, who suck against lefties, all a team has to do is bring in a lefty reliever late in the game to shut the top of our lineup down and lock away the game. This happened all the time last year. Thats too easy, and thats why lineups usually break up your LH and RH hitters. It happened last year when we went Pods, Iguchi, Thome and all three couldn't hit lefties. Hell it was even worse when those three started a game against lefties and we couldn't score, now u want to do more of the same. Doesnt make sense. The lineup that would best take into account our 4 LH starters would be,

 

LH Erstad/Pods

RH Iguchi

LH Thome

RH Konerko

RH Dye

LH AJ

RH Crede

LH Erstad/Pods

RH Uribe

 

I mean at least this way we wont get shutout by the Mark Redmans, Kyle Scheiders, and be blanked by Jamie Walkers and Danny Reyes of the world.