Texsox Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(mr_genius @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 06:39 PM) lol, you guys are cherry picking the best schools. our national average is horrible. but hey, if you think the educational system is fine i'll totally belive you. i linked an article with a list of 30 countries and comparative high school math scores. the US finished 28th out of 30. we beat Mexico atleast. it's also not just the really poor schools in the US that do poorly compared to the rest of the world, it's almost all the schools in the US..... funding doesn't seem to be the problem seeing that we spend as much, if not more, than most countries on education. here's a link to educational spending http://www.oclc.org/reports/escan/economic...aryspending.htm link to our rankings http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/1207/p01s04-ussc.html We have computers in every home, who needs math? One of the flaws in many of these studies are the sampling of students. We take all kids. Every one of them. Many countries are a bit more selective and some are left on the farm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(Texsox @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 07:22 PM) We have computers in every home, who needs math? One of the flaws in many of these studies are the sampling of students. We take all kids. Every one of them. Many countries are a bit more selective and some are left on the farm. maybe in countries like China, but most of the countries ahead of us on the list are reporting about the same percentage of students as the US. i don't think the findings are flawed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(mr_genius @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 07:28 PM) maybe in countries like China, but most of the countries ahead of us on the list are reporting about the same percentage of students as the US. i don't think the findings are flawed. Not worth discussing really. But we can't even produce a test in this country that isn't gender/race/region biased. I don't know how they came up with an international test that wasn't biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(Texsox @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 07:35 PM) we can't even produce a test in this country that isn't gender/race/region biased. I don't know how they came up with an international test that wasn't biased. texsox, it's a math test. it's not racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(mr_genius @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 08:37 PM) texsox, it's a math test. it's not racist. In 2005 the SAT overhauled then test to eliminate some of the problem questions. If you search bias in math sat you will find several well researched articles and studies. Could we do better? Certainly. Should we switch over to a different model of public education because of standardized test scores? I'd want a whole bunch more data than test scores. Some countries may teach to the test and not real world practical math problem skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(Texsox @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 11:16 PM) In 2005 the SAT overhauled then test to eliminate some of the problem questions. If you search bias in math sat you will find several well researched articles and studies. Could we do better? Certainly. Should we switch over to a different model of public education because of standardized test scores? I'd want a whole bunch more data than test scores. Some countries may teach to the test and not real world practical math problem skills. i agree, the system shouldn't be totally changed. but as far as the math tests go, they aren't biased. if you know differential calculus and integral calculus you know it, if you don't you don't. there is no way i am going to be convinced Germany, Japan, South Korea, Canada, ect. all teach math a certain way that only carries over to testing. but anyways, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(mr_genius @ Mar 21, 2007 -> 11:41 PM) i agree, the system shouldn't be totally changed. but as far as the math tests go, they aren't biased. if you know differential calculus and integral calculus you know it, if you don't you don't. there is no way i am going to be convinced Germany, Japan, South Korea, Canada, ect. all teach math a certain way that only carries over to testing. but anyways, Not trying to convince, I just know in 2005 the SAT was overhauled to remove bias in the math and other sections. I assume they did that for a good reason. If we are only talking about calculus, that brings in another variable. Is calculus required in the US and not other countries? I wonder if there is a study that ranks our students in mutliple disciplines against the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(Texsox @ Mar 22, 2007 -> 06:23 AM) If we are only talking about calculus, that brings in another variable. Is calculus required in the US and not other countries? I wonder if there is a study that ranks our students in mutliple disciplines against the world. If we're talking about the calculus, for my high school, the calculus was certainly not required, and was not even an option for anyone but the top level students. It was taught as an honors course senior year, which basically meant you had to have taken the advanced math courses all the way from 8th grade on. The calculus was certainly a requirement in college for me, but I'll be the first to tell you that there were people at Indiana that had no business in that school taking any major that required math. The best example of this is a class that's number is something like math 001 or something to that effect (someone who's still a student there could give the exact description) which is basically intro to algebra, something I had in middle school. So, long story short, the calculus is certainly not required in all U.S. high schools, or even for admission to colleges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Prawn Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 (edited) EE checking in... My HS was the same way. I took Calculus my senior year and then 3 semesters of it in college. It surprised me how low level some of the math courses were that were offered when I was in college. Some of the blame falls on schools, but I think more of if falls on parents and students themselves. The education is there for the taking. Problem is many students just don't see it as important enough to invest the time required to excel. Edited March 22, 2007 by Queen Prawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_genius Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 (edited) QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Mar 22, 2007 -> 10:59 AM) If we're talking about the calculus, for my high school, the calculus was certainly not required, and was not even an option for anyone but the top level students. It was taught as an honors course senior year, which basically meant you had to have taken the advanced math courses all the way from 8th grade on. The calculus was certainly a requirement in college for me, but I'll be the first to tell you that there were people at Indiana that had no business in that school taking any major that required math. The best example of this is a class that's number is something like math 001 or something to that effect (someone who's still a student there could give the exact description) which is basically intro to algebra, something I had in middle school. So, long story short, the calculus is certainly not required in all U.S. high schools, or even for admission to colleges. uhh, the whole education portion of this thread started as me pointing out that the US lacks engineers and such. it is now devolving into "what classes Balta took" and "what classes he thinks are important". oh, a lot of the foreign students i went to college with already knew calculus. i sure didn't and i was at a disadvantage... poor me Edited March 22, 2007 by mr_genius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(mr_genius @ Mar 22, 2007 -> 03:26 PM) uhh, the whole education portion of this thread started as me pointing out that the US lacks engineers and such. it is now devolving into "what classes Balta took" and "what classes he thinks are important". Well, Balta is after all a scientist. Hey, add me to your Boone Logan fan club, would ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 QUOTE(mr_genius @ Mar 22, 2007 -> 03:26 PM) uhh, the whole education portion of this thread started as me pointing out that the US lacks engineers and such. it is now devolving into "what classes Balta took" and "what classes he thinks are important". oh, a lot of the foreign students i went to college with already knew calculus. i sure didn't and i was at a disadvantage... poor me It wasn't a problem in the English and Psychology Departments where I spent/spend my time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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