Why Crucify the whole team already???

[Y2HH]

I look forward to saying "Brian woulda had that" on 65% of the balls that land in the gaps and in front of the centerfielder.

 

And I look forward to saying, "Hell, even *I* could have made solid contact with that when BA strikes out on a hanging breaking ball..." See how that works two ways?

 

I'm sick and tired of the BA love around here. It's disgusting. Go get a room. And yes, I realize this villifies me around here -- OMG he said something negative about BA so he's on the hate list! So f'ing what. BA sucks...and this insane BA love sucks even more. I'm tired of it. The wheels fell off that bandwagon before it even started moving.

 

Call it a hunch, but I'm gonna go so far as to say this BA bandwagon full of Soxtalkers are secretly WISHING Pods and Erstad would fail just so they can claim how right they were about BA.

[NorthSideSox72]

And I look forward to saying, "Hell, even *I* could have made solid contact with that when BA strikes out on a hanging breaking ball..." See how that works two ways?

 

I'm sick and tired of the BA love around here. It's disgusting. Go get a room. And yes, I realize this villifies me around here -- OMG he said something negative about BA so he's on the hate list! So f'ing what. BA sucks...and this insane BA love sucks even more. I'm tired of it. The wheels fell off that bandwagon before it even started moving.

 

Call it a hunch, but I'm gonna go so far as to say this BA bandwagon full of Soxtalkers are secretly WISHING Pods and Erstad would fail just so they can claim how right they were about BA.

I doubt anyone will hate or villify you for disliking BA. They just won't take your comments seriously when you, apparently, think that defense in CF is something "nobody cares" about.

[Capn12]

No, we just want the better Centerfielder to actually....get a realistic shot at winning the job, something he isn't getting and wont get, because he isn't grinder material apparently. I guess by getting a legitimate jump on flyballs, moving fluidly and efficently out in the field, those aren't grinder type qualities like Pods has.

 

Can't believe after 1 season, a guy can qualify as 'sucks' despite the fact he had the 3rd best RF of ALL MLB OUTFIELDERS in his ROOKIE season. Makes sense to me.

[Y2HH]

I doubt anyone will hate or villify you for disliking BA. They just won't take your comments seriously when you, apparently, think that defense in CF is something "nobody cares" about.

 

I don't think defense in CF is something nobody cares about. But I also feel Erstad, who's won gold gloves in CF, may know a little more about defense in CF than AAAnderson, and you, for that matter. Bottom line, at least I'm waiting to see what Erstad can do before I hang him. You are speculating based on stats -- which is fine -- but based on stats, we should have made the playoffs last year, at a minimum, if not returned to the WS.

 

My point is, even defensivly, BA isn't our only option in CF.

 

No, we just want the better Centerfielder to actually....get a realistic shot at winning the job, something he isn't getting and wont get, because he isn't grinder material apparently. I guess by getting a legitimate jump on flyballs, moving fluidly and efficently out in the field, those aren't grinder type qualities like Pods has.

 

Can't believe after 1 season, a guy can qualify as 'sucks' despite the fact he had the 3rd best RF of ALL MLB OUTFIELDERS in his ROOKIE season. Makes sense to me.

 

Perhaps there is something behind the scenes none of know about pertaining to BA, which is my bet. Although easy for fans to ignore these things, team management will not ignore them. Something happened with BA and this team -- I don't know what -- but something definatly happened...and prehaps it's bigger than we all know or think.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Y2HH

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't think defense in CF is something nobody cares about. But I also feel Erstad, who's won gold gloves in CF, may know a little more about defense in CF than AAAnderson, and you, for that matter. Bottom line, at least I'm waiting to see what Erstad can do before I hang him. You are speculating based on stats -- which is fine -- but based on stats, we should have made the playoffs last year, at a minimum, if not returned to the WS.

The "nobody cares" line was a quote from you.

 

Anderson is already better defensively than Erstad is right now, and results in ST (stats and watching him hit) indicate BA may have turned a corner and started hitting. Plus look at Erstad's last few years. I am not opposed to BA going to AAAto refine his hitting if we have some clearly better option on the team, but Erstad is not that option.

[Y2HH]

The "nobody cares" line was a quote from you.

 

Anderson is already better defensively than Erstad is right now, and results in ST (stats and watching him hit) indicate BA may have turned a corner and started hitting. Plus look at Erstad's last few years. I am not opposed to BA going to AAAto refine his hitting if we have some clearly better option on the team, but Erstad is not that option.

 

BA batted like this last year in ST also. And when I said nobody cares, I didn't mean that nobody cares about defense in CF, I meant nobody cares as pertaining to BA and defense in CF. Perhaps a poor choice of words to say nobody cares, because I'm sure people do care about BA, but my point was, there ARE other options that can play defense. I think we have a few CF's in our system, and Erstad, that can be quite more than servicable out there...

 

I would love nothing more than to have BA in CF -- I just don't see the reason to b**** about it constantly if it doesn't end up happening, or before the upcoming cuts even happen... It's just annoying, as the original poster of this team said, people calling KW an idiot, hating on Ozzie, etc...all over BA and all BEFORE the final round of cuts or team decisions are even made!

 

I still think there is something going on between BA and the team management that we don't know about.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Y2HH

[Controlled Chaos]

And I look forward to saying, "Hell, even *I* could have made solid contact with that when BA strikes out on a hanging breaking ball..." See how that works two ways?

 

I'm sick and tired of the BA love around here. It's disgusting. Go get a room. And yes, I realize this villifies me around here -- OMG he said something negative about BA so he's on the hate list! So f'ing what. BA sucks...and this insane BA love sucks even more. I'm tired of it. The wheels fell off that bandwagon before it even started moving.

 

Call it a hunch, but I'm gonna go so far as to say this BA bandwagon full of Soxtalkers are secretly WISHING Pods and Erstad would fail just so they can claim how right they were about BA.

You making contact with any major league pitch is a wet dream. My example was reality based. It is just a fact that there are many balls that Erstad can't get to that Brian can. I am a fan of Erstad...I love his attitude and work ethic. I just didn't see him being brought here as a starting center fielder. Now if he came to camp and won the job outright, more power to him, but that just isn't the case.

 

What is this hate list you speak of? I don't think anyone puts you on a list. I do think saying BA sucks lessens your credibility, cause it's just not true. In fact, he is outplaying Erstad at this point and Erstad has had way more opportunities.

 

I'm not wishing anyone fails. I'm just wishing the players that give the sox the best chance to win are on the field. IMO that is BA.

[Y2HH]

You making contact with any major league pitch is a wet dream. My example was reality based. It is just a fact that there are many balls that Erstad can't get to that Brian can. I am a fan of Erstad...I love his attitude and work ethic. I just didn't see him being brought here as a starting center fielder. Now if he came to camp and won the job outright, more power to him, but that just isn't the case.

 

What is this hate list you speak of? I don't think anyone puts you on a list. I do think saying BA sucks lessens your credibility, cause it's just not true. In fact, he is outplaying Erstad at this point and Erstad has had way more opportunities.

 

I'm not wishing anyone fails. I'm just wishing the players that give the sox the best chance to win are on the field. IMO that is BA.

 

I only spoke of a hate list because of the overwhelming support for BA around here and anyone that speaks out against him seems to gets jumped at. Listening to local radio shows, talking to other Sox fans, etc...this board seems to be a minority when it comes to BA, and I'm not sure why, but a LOT of people dislike him.

 

I agree that BA should be playing CF for us, I was one of his biggest defenders against the pro-Arow crowds last season. I see the skill BA has, and everyone knows he CAN hit if he'd just relax in the box, but none of it means anything if his attitude or whatever the hell going on between him and the teams management doesn't get fixed...

 

I guess I'm just getting annoyed with the hate this board is tossing at our GM/Manager, who just brought us a WS victory 2 years ago...seems a little premature to be second guessing them even if that WS was won via lightning in a bottle with that pitching staff.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Y2HH

[Balta1701]

You know what has me a lot more negative than I was either of the last 2 years? I think that KW this offseason took a lot more gambles than the previous 2 offseasons, and this team has less potential for success even if every one of those gambles works out.

 

I was pretty unsure about the Lee trade myself (even though I wasn't here), but looking at the lineup coming into the season, I found myself quite a bit happier. When you looked at our problems from 04, almost all of them had been upgraded. The bullpen before Shingo? Hermanson, Vizcaino added to it (thus giving us a couple closing options). 2nd base? Iguchi. Catcher? Pierzynski. SS? Uribe permanently put there. 3rd base? Still weak, but still talent in Crede. LF/Leadoff? Podsednik. RF hole? Dye, although an injury risk.

 

In 05, at least you could look at the team and say "Well, we have someone who can fix the problems we had last year".

 

In 06, the main problem we had to fix? Lack of a left handed, high OPS type bat. The solution? Jim Thome. We also added some innings to the rotation in Vazquez, hoping that it would replace El Duque. We made even fewer gambles that offseason than in 05, IMO.

 

This year, we're back to big gambles, bigger ones than in 05, IMO. CF, we're gambling on Erstad returing to his form from 7 years ago. LF, we're gambling on Podsednik returning to form from 1.5 years ago. SS, we're hoping Uribe can come up with something. Bullpen, we're gambling on like 4 young guys. Starting rotation, we're gambling on 4 guys returning to form and at least 1 rookie.

 

In 05, at least I didn't know what to expect from a lot of the new guys. We were gambling that the new guys would be good. In 07, I think I have some idea what to expect from people. And this time, we're gambling that the same guys will somehow be better than they were last year, or in Erstad's case, better than he's been this millennium. I think those are much bigger gambles than taking a flyer on new guys or young guys. So, I think that is a bit of reason for some pessimism coming into this year.

[BearSox]

some stats from today...

 

Podsednik, 1-3, 1 BB, 2 SB/0 CS, 2 runs (batting leadoff)

Erstad, 2-3, 1 BB, 1 run (batting second)

Iguchi, 2-4 (3B & HR), 4 RBI's, 2 runs (batting 6th)

 

Wouldn't mind that if they could do that throughout the season...

[Balta1701]

I note that you don't mention the botched play in the OF by Erstad that helped the Giants to their first big inning, or the couple things hit over his head.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

I note that you don't mention the botched play in the OF by Erstad that helped the Giants to their first big inning, or the couple things hit over his head.

 

Has anybody actually seen erstad in CF this year?

 

Haven't seen him in in CF in the few televised games I've seen so I have no idea what to think. I'm not even sure if he's played much in CF this spring.

[BearSox]

I note that you don't mention the botched play in the OF by Erstad that helped the Giants to their first big inning, or the couple things hit over his head.

I didn't know that. I just got home when I made that post and was just looking at the box score.

[Balta1701]

I didn't know that. I just got home when I made that post and was just looking at the box score.

Let's just say that if you were a fan of pitching and defense....this was not a game you'd like to attend.

[greg775]

Since the Sox are sticking with Pods another year, I see him as a major key.

He's got to have a big year and not get caught stealing as many times as a year ago.

We have so many question marks.

I don't think Oz will be dumb enough to play Erstad all the time.

I hope not.

He'll be a serviceable Mack type I hope.

[badatbest]

Part of what makes white sox fans great is that they are well informed, demand a good product and don't put bind faith in anything.

 

If you want to put blind faith in a team, go hang out at the Cubbie Bear on Clark, you'll find alot of company.

[The Ginger Kid]

Part of what makes white sox fans great is that they are well informed, demand a good product and don't put bind faith in anything.

 

If you want to put blind faith in a team, go hang out at the Cubbie Bear on Clark, you'll find alot of company.

 

very well put

 

particularly the part about blind faith (see posts re: BA's second half in the majors)

Edited March 22, 2007 by The Ginger Kid

[VAfan]

Put me down in the column of fans that are not very optimistic about the season at this point.

 

1. We have only 1 legitimate outfielder, Jermaine Dye, and he's likely playing his last season for the Sox. As bad as our outfield looks now, it is likely to look even worse next year.

 

2. Who are we going to play against left handed pitchers? Our AL Central competitors are loaded with quality left handed starters. Last year we had only 3 guys who could even hit lefties -- Dye, Konerko, and Crede. So what did we do in the offseason? Replace our young right handed CF with a lefty who can't hit worth a crap and never walks. So, of course, Ozzie is in love with him and wants to hit him second in the lineup sandwiched between two other lefties that can't hit left handed pitching.

 

3. Where's the starting pitching? In 2005, we won with a pretty bad, though consistent, offense. But that's because we had great starting pitching and a very solid bullpen. Forget about the #5 hole, which is bad enough. I want to know whether our #1-4 guys are going to return to 2005 form or look like the mediocre-bad pitchers they were in 2006 (except Garland).

 

4. A bullpen of flamethrowers? Or flame outs? I haven't bought into the notion that our bullpen is going to be fabulous because we have all these power arms now. I like Big Bobby and Thornton and think MacDougal should be fine if he stays healthy. But David Aardsma? Sisco? Just cause they throw hard doesn't mean they're any good. I haven't seen Masset pitch, so no comment. So, the pen could be okay, even good. But I could just as easily see it blowing too many games for us to win the division.

 

5. Do we have any plan for the future? KW tried to restock the farm system with arms. But last time I checked, you also need 8 position players and a DH. This could be Iguchi's last season with us = do we even have a second baseman in the system? Dye is certainly gone, even though he's promised us a home-town discount = we've had a lot of minor league outfielders, but if Darren Erstad and Scott Podsednik can beat them out, I don't think any of them are major league material. Juan Uribe could likely be induced to stick around, but if he doesn't learn to get on base as well as he hits HRs, he's another hole in our lineup. Thome isn't getting younger. Last season, he really tanked in the second half and became an automatic out against lefty pitchers. We have pitching depth in our system, but almost nothing else. Josh Fields can only play one position, and is going to have a tough time matching Joe Crede's production.

 

6. Why did we devote $11+ million a year starting next season to lock up our worst starter from 2006? It seems to me that Javier Vazquez's contribution (or lack thereof) to our pitching staff would be the easiest to replace from among our young arms. So why not take the $10 million difference between JV's deal and what we'd have to pay a rookie pitcher and use it to keep Jermaine Dye? Then you could have traded Vazquez == now, or in mid-season -- to get some real outfielders to play alongside Dye. (Like Chris Young -- the one outfielder in our system that actually had major league talent.)

 

I'm not ripping Kenny for the trades he made this offseason. We needed mound depth, and he got some young power arms. But I'm not crazy about the Vazquez extension, and I'm downright disgusted that Darren Erstad and Scott Podsednik are 2/3 of our starting outfield. It's the deals we DIDN'T make that have left gaping holes in our roster.

 

Maybe this team will surprise us. But just wishing it will all turn out won't make it so. At the moment, I'm not optimistic.

[Y2HH]

Put me down in the column of fans that are not very optimistic about the season at this point.

 

1. We have only 1 legitimate outfielder, Jermaine Dye, and he's likely playing his last season for the Sox. As bad as our outfield looks now, it is likely to look even worse next year.

 

2. Who are we going to play against left handed pitchers? Our AL Central competitors are loaded with quality left handed starters. Last year we had only 3 guys who could even hit lefties -- Dye, Konerko, and Crede. So what did we do in the offseason? Replace our young right handed CF with a lefty who can't hit worth a crap and never walks. So, of course, Ozzie is in love with him and wants to hit him second in the lineup sandwiched between two other lefties that can't hit left handed pitching.

 

3. Where's the starting pitching? In 2005, we won with a pretty bad, though consistent, offense. But that's because we had great starting pitching and a very solid bullpen. Forget about the #5 hole, which is bad enough. I want to know whether our #1-4 guys are going to return to 2005 form or look like the mediocre-bad pitchers they were in 2006 (except Garland).

 

4. A bullpen of flamethrowers? Or flame outs? I haven't bought into the notion that our bullpen is going to be fabulous because we have all these power arms now. I like Big Bobby and Thornton and think MacDougal should be fine if he stays healthy. But David Aardsma? Sisco? Just cause they throw hard doesn't mean they're any good. I haven't seen Masset pitch, so no comment. So, the pen could be okay, even good. But I could just as easily see it blowing too many games for us to win the division.

 

5. Do we have any plan for the future? KW tried to restock the farm system with arms. But last time I checked, you also need 8 position players and a DH. This could be Iguchi's last season with us = do we even have a second baseman in the system? Dye is certainly gone, even though he's promised us a home-town discount = we've had a lot of minor league outfielders, but if Darren Erstad and Scott Podsednik can beat them out, I don't think any of them are major league material. Juan Uribe could likely be induced to stick around, but if he doesn't learn to get on base as well as he hits HRs, he's another hole in our lineup. Thome isn't getting younger. Last season, he really tanked in the second half and became an automatic out against lefty pitchers. We have pitching depth in our system, but almost nothing else. Josh Fields can only play one position, and is going to have a tough time matching Joe Crede's production.

 

6. Why did we devote $11+ million a year starting next season to lock up our worst starter from 2006? It seems to me that Javier Vazquez's contribution (or lack thereof) to our pitching staff would be the easiest to replace from among our young arms. So why not take the $10 million difference between JV's deal and what we'd have to pay a rookie pitcher and use it to keep Jermaine Dye? Then you could have traded Vazquez == now, or in mid-season -- to get some real outfielders to play alongside Dye. (Like Chris Young -- the one outfielder in our system that actually had major league talent.)

 

I'm not ripping Kenny for the trades he made this offseason. We needed mound depth, and he got some young power arms. But I'm not crazy about the Vazquez extension, and I'm downright disgusted that Darren Erstad and Scott Podsednik are 2/3 of our starting outfield. It's the deals we DIDN'T make that have left gaping holes in our roster.

 

Maybe this team will surprise us. But just wishing it will all turn out won't make it so. At the moment, I'm not optimistic.

 

Let's not forget that for next season, if Dye, Buehrle and Iguchi do indeed leave the team -- a LOT of money will be freed up to be spread out elsewhere. That's about 20M in funding there. I personally hope all three of them stay, but the economics of the team (105M payroll perhaps?) will not work with the raises they are all in store for. I think of the three, Iguchi will stay. Jermaine Dye will simply command too much money for his age...and Buehrle is a lefty starter who I'm not confident has the stuff to be commanding what he's going to get anymore...

 

There are a lot of questions with this team...but there are a lot of questions with every team. Combine that with the fact we ended up in the hardest division on earth, and it's not the best equation for success...then again, until the games are played, we will never know. Everyone just assumes the entire Sox team is going to regress in most facets of the game, while they assume the Tigers, Indians and Twins will not...

 

I don't share the same feelings. I'm optimistic, as I always try to be. I don't feel we are any weaker without Freddy Garcia (who left his game with an injury yesterday), or McCarthy...at all.

[ScottyDo]

6. Why did we devote $11+ million a year starting next season to lock up our worst starter from 2006? It seems to me that Javier Vazquez's contribution (or lack thereof) to our pitching staff would be the easiest to replace from among our young arms. So why not take the $10 million difference between JV's deal and what we'd have to pay a rookie pitcher and use it to keep Jermaine Dye? Then you could have traded Vazquez == now, or in mid-season -- to get some real outfielders to play alongside Dye. (Like Chris Young -- the one outfielder in our system that actually had major league talent.)

 

I'm not ripping Kenny for the trades he made this offseason. We needed mound depth, and he got some young power arms. But I'm not crazy about the Vazquez extension, and I'm downright disgusted that Darren Erstad and Scott Podsednik are 2/3 of our starting outfield. It's the deals we DIDN'T make that have left gaping holes in our roster.

 

Maybe this team will surprise us. But just wishing it will all turn out won't make it so. At the moment, I'm not optimistic.

Because he's better than Jason Marquis, yet somehow cheaper.

 

On a side note, I think it's funny that all the "concern" about our ballclub revolves around our lineup, which is frankly stupid because that was not our problem last year. If we need to be worried about something, why aren't there more posts on Buehrle/Contreras/Garland/Vazquez? (VAfan's post is excepted because I'm directly responding to a post about Vazquez )

[fathom]

Because he's better than Jason Marquis, yet somehow cheaper.

 

No, he's not cheaper. Right now, I believe we are the 4th most talented team in the division overall.

Edited March 22, 2007 by fathom

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Also, our offensive struggles in the 2nd half of the season were just as responsible for blowing a 6 game Wild Card lead at the break as was our pitching.

 

No way. Pitching killed us last year, plain and simple.

 

 

 

We should just cancel the season this year. It's hopeless...

[fathom]

No way. Pitching killed us last year, plain and simple.

We should just cancel the season this year. It's hopeless...

 

Check it out, I had changed my post before you even responded to this. I don't want to get into another debate about just how bad our offense was during the 2nd half of last season.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

Check it out, I had changed my post before you even responded to this. I don't want to get into another debate about just how bad our offense was during the 2nd half of last season.

 

Well, that's no fun. The hot start was never gonna hold up anyways, and the pitching never did it's part in picking the team up when the offense struggled a bit. The full season of subpar pitching hurt the team way more than the periods the offense struggled, particularly since overall the offense did very well.

 

 

 

Anybody else not gonna bother watching this year since we're doomed anyways?

[Balta1701]

Because he's better than Jason Marquis, yet somehow cheaper.

 

On a side note, I think it's funny that all the "concern" about our ballclub revolves around our lineup, which is frankly stupid because that was not our problem last year. If we need to be worried about something, why aren't there more posts on Buehrle/Contreras/Garland/Vazquez? (VAfan's post is excepted because I'm directly responding to a post about Vazquez )

Because one of the things that killed the White Sox pitching staff last year was the defense behind it constantly letting it down...even if things weren't called errors. And we seem to be trying to figure out how to make the exact same mistakes this year.