Steff Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I've pretty much gathered that southsider, you don't like Frank do you? My question is short and sweet -- why? I don't like him either and I'll chime in even though my name isn't southsider... Reason being is the contract thing a few years back when he was definitely selfish about a lot of things and handled it in the worst way possible....Add that to the fact that he hasn't really had a great season lately (except for 2000) and there's not much to love about him. You check the closet and under the bed each night for monsters before you hop in, don't you..? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I've pretty much gathered that southsider, you don't like Frank do you? My question is short and sweet -- why? I don't like him either and I'll chime in even though my name isn't southsider... Reason being is the contract thing a few years back when he was definitely selfish about a lot of things and handled it in the worst way possible....Add that to the fact that he hasn't really had a great season lately (except for 2000) and there's not much to love about him. What about Mark and the whole St Louis thing? Hes been an idiot about that, why dont you hate him? That's a good point. Talk about handling something in the worst possible way...MB mentioned that he'd like to play for St Louis someday. Sox fans freak out, and just when we had forgotten all about that comment, HE SAID IT AGAIN. That seems very selfish to me. Exactly. Sure, hate on Frank all you want, but when you get mad at him for something, be fair and treat both on the same scale. Dont let Marks whines slip while you crucify Frank for his. That aint right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Wanna know where Mark ranks in the AL? 33rd in ERA, 3rd in losses and 7th in walks. You can bash on Frank all you want, but if you do, you might want to defend someone who can actually compare to the Hurt... Well.. ummm... don't forget to factor in the s***ty offense. Yes, Mark has smelled like a tuna sitting in 90 degree weather for a week a few times. But the run support so far has sucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I would like to see Drew is a Sox uniform, but not for Buerhle. One of the main considerations anymore when making a trade is the ecomoronics of baseball and Buerhle is not eligible for free agency till at leat 2006. Drew has only one more year. Buerhle is also an all-star pitcher and will rebound from this slump. If the Sox are going to trade Buehrle, trade him to the Padres. Padres have some excellent prospects and are going to want to add a few playerse for next year. They will be one team that could be buying at the break, when it comes to getting young talented players. I think a package of Konerko and Buehrle could get the Sox a lot in the way of Greene, Klesko, and one to two of their best pitchers (I'd love Jake Peavy but I doubt they do it). Still, I'm not a fan of dealing Buehrle. I'm a huge Buehrle fan and we have him a long time. Not many lefties have or will win 40 games by the time they are 23. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Exactly. Sure, hate on Frank all you want, but when you get mad at him for something, be fair and treat both on the same scale. Dont let Marks whines slip while you crucify Frank for his. That aint right... Ehem... Pot.. meet Mr. Kettle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 If Drew hadn't been so injury plagued over his career, this trade would probably be pretty fair. However the injury problems of Drew make this way too hard to commit to. Drew has boatloads of potential if he's not hurt...probly more potential than Buehrle, and he's coming through on some of that this year (when he isn't hurt). I've always liked Drew, but between injuries and the fact that i don't want to "give up" (read want to see more of) Buehrle...i'd say no to this deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 If Greg Vaughn, Jeremy Burnitz or someone like that, came out and hit .250 with 28 bombs and 92 RBIs, his fans would praise him. Those are pretty good numbers. So why dont most people praise Frank Thomas when he does that? Because hes been great in the past and those numbers just dont compare to his numbers of earlier years. If Frank had hit like he did in 2002 in his rookie year, we woulda said, this kids pretty good. Yet now when he hits like that all these people think he stinks. Why? Because now he has all these years of the past that just blow away his 2002 performance. But if he came out like that as a rookie, wed say hes pretty good because those truly are good, not great, numbers and we wouldnt have had any past greatness to compare him to. I hope you guys understand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 If Greg Vaughn, Jeremy Burnitz or someone like that, came out and hit .250 with 28 bombs and 92 RBIs, his fans would praise him. Those are pretty good numbers. So why dont most people praise Frank Thomas when he does that? Because hes been great in the past and those numbers just dont compare to his numbers of earlier years. If Frank had hit like he did in 2002 in his rookie year, we woulda said, this kids pretty good. Yet now when he hits like that all these people think he stinks. Why? Because now he has all these years of the past that just blow away his 2002 performance. But if he came out like that as a rookie, wed say hes pretty good because those truly are good, not great, numbers and we wouldnt have had any past greatness to compare him to. I hope you guys understand... Mainly because those aren't worthy numbers of a 3 hole hitter (The .250 28 hr ones.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Well.. ummm... don't forget to factor in the s***ty offense. Yes, Mark has smelled like a tuna sitting in 90 degree weather for a week a few times. But the run support so far has sucked. The 3rd is because of offense, but 7th in walks and 33rd in ERA is his fault, not the offenses... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxplosion Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Mainly because those aren't worthy numbers of a 3 hole hitter (The .250 28 hr ones.) Whoever set that rule that frank has to hit third? Put him fourth of fifth. Those are good numbers Jas, he shouldnt be getting bashed for a performance like that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 No, I think Frank shoulkd stay 3 in the lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 If his hitting eye stays par (drawing walks), agreed he should stay 3. Get guys on for Maggs and Konerko...wait a minute, Maggs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 E-Lo....career high is 11 wins...cough..cough...never been an all-star...cough...cough.... cough cough....give it three weeks....cough cough.......Loaiza will be an All Star at that time.....cough cough......they're both good pitchers........cough cough.......wish I could shake this cold.....cough cough.........lots of people coughing, it must be going around.......sniffle sniffle wheeze hack cough..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 I really don't care what Loaiza has/has not done in the past...he wasn't part of the Sox. I only care about the here and now, when he's part of the Sox...and well, i'm more than satisfied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 And Franks been a great player much longer than Mark. Frank didnt have his first bad season until 98. And 98 wasnt even a very bad year. .265 with 29 homeruns and 109 RBIs is great. Just Frank was always better. .305 with 15 homeruns and 77 RBIs is decent as well. Hes simply a victim of his own success. 2001, when he went down due to injury, was his only bad year. And since it was due to injury, it wasnt even very bad. In 2002, he hit 28 bombs with 92 RBIs and a BA around .250. Thats bad for Frank, yes it is, but those are really decent numbers for anyone else! .250 is kinda low, and so is 77 ribbies from a power hitter, but those are accepted from other players. He is a victim of his own success. Now back to the point. Frank didnt have his first "below expectations" season until 98. Yes thats it! Franks never had a bad season, hes only had below expectation seasons. "Bad" would be something like PKs season this year. Or maybe not that bad. Maybe just .230-15-60. That would be bad. But Marks having his first below expectation, really it borders on bad, season in his third year. Thats not good... And Clu, this is EXACTLY what I am talking about. First we aren't to judge Mark on what he has done before, but now, but when it comes to Frank, it doesn't matter because of what he did up until 97 and in 2k. Don't get me wrong. Frank and Joe Jackson are the best two hitters this franchise has ever seen. The years Thomas put up in the 90's were incredible. I appreicate what he has done for this team. If he puts up a few more decent years he should be a first ballot hall of famer, if he retired today, he would be at least a 2nd or 3rd ballot HOFer. There is no one else on this team you could say anything like that about right now. I just get annoyed with hypocracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 No, I think Frank shoulkd stay 3 in the lineup. Why not hit Frank #2 in the lineup? Put a guy in the nine hole that has a solid OBP and go from there. With Frank's walks, and two guys in front of him (#9 and # 1 hitter) you could better your odds for big innings (except the first, obviously) and Frank would still have guys on ahead of him to drive in. JM did it a few times before, why not stick with it? Or is it thinking too far outside the box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clujer420 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 And Clu, this is EXACTLY what I am talking about. First we aren't to judge Mark on what he has done before, but now, but when it comes to Frank, it doesn't matter because of what he did up until 97 and in 2k. Don't get me wrong. Frank and Joe Jackson are the best two hitters this franchise has ever seen. The years Thomas put up in the 90's were incredible. I appreicate what he has done for this team. If he puts up a few more decent years he should be a first ballot hall of famer, if he retired today, he would be at least a 2nd or 3rd ballot HOFer. There is no one else on this team you could say anything like that about right now. I just get annoyed with hypocracy. Fair enough, and I agree -- IMO, there is very little a person can do that is worse than being a hypocrite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Better to hit 3 and get walks for Maggs and Daubach to driive in runs. Frank is just fit for 3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Why not hit Frank #2 in the lineup? Put a guy in the nine hole that has a solid OBP and go from there. With Frank's walks, and two guys in front of him (#9 and # 1 hitter) you could better your odds for big innings (except the first, obviously) and Frank would still have guys on ahead of him to drive in. JM did it a few times before, why not stick with it? Or is it thinking too far outside the box? Right now Frank would almost be an ideal #2 hitter. He sees a ton of pitches, gets on base, and gives guys an opportunity to see more pitches. The thing is I like the line up with Harris and Jimenez at the top better. Frank is finally starting to drive in some runs with RISP at #3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Fainter Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 It's even worse to be a hypocrite who doesn't mean what he says. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 And Clu, this is EXACTLY what I am talking about. First we aren't to judge Mark on what he has done before, but now, but when it comes to Frank, it doesn't matter because of what he did up until 97 and in 2k. Don't get me wrong. Frank and Joe Jackson are the best two hitters this franchise has ever seen. The years Thomas put up in the 90's were incredible. I appreicate what he has done for this team. If he puts up a few more decent years he should be a first ballot hall of famer, if he retired today, he would be at least a 2nd or 3rd ballot HOFer. There is no one else on this team you could say anything like that about right now. I just get annoyed with hypocracy. Fair enough, and I agree -- IMO, there is very little a person can do that is worse than being a hypocrite. Rapist, murderer, thief, arsonist, armed robber, pedophile, kidnapper, extortionist, nose picker...etc, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IlliniKrush Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Nose picker?! I'm offended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Ther is nothing wrong with picking your nose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 And Clu, this is EXACTLY what I am talking about. First we aren't to judge Mark on what he has done before, but now, but when it comes to Frank, it doesn't matter because of what he did up until 97 and in 2k. Don't get me wrong. Frank and Joe Jackson are the best two hitters this franchise has ever seen. The years Thomas put up in the 90's were incredible. I appreicate what he has done for this team. If he puts up a few more decent years he should be a first ballot hall of famer, if he retired today, he would be at least a 2nd or 3rd ballot HOFer. There is no one else on this team you could say anything like that about right now. I just get annoyed with hypocracy. Fair enough, and I agree -- IMO, there is very little a person can do that is worse than being a hypocrite. Rapist, murderer, thief, arsonist, armed robber, pedophile, kidnapper, extortionist, nose picker...etc, etc... don't forget Troll! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted June 25, 2003 Share Posted June 25, 2003 Right now Frank would almost be an ideal #2 hitter. He sees a ton of pitches, gets on base, and gives guys an opportunity to see more pitches. The thing is I like the line up with Harris and Jimenez at the top better. Frank is finally starting to drive in some runs with RISP at #3. So why not get the same effect with Harris hitting 9th? You only lose the first inning. Your 9th hitter should be a table setter too, not your worst hitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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