BUMPED::::::Toby Hall Possibly out for the season

[Milkman delivers]

I was just commenting on how many games Hall was likely to play. That's all.

 

Oh, I realized that. I was just trying to hammer my point in, ha. No offense.

[Kalapse]

Had he played 1st base before at all this spring?

2 AB, 2 G, 5 PO, 2 A

 

So yeah, he's pretty experienced at the position.

[SleepyWhiteSox]

2 AB, 2 G, 5 PO, 2 A

 

So yeah, he's pretty experienced at the position.

 

So 2 games this spring?

 

Or at-bats, ok read that wrong. I don't know where I'm going with this anyways. I guess I'm wondering if he played at 1st this spring and looked shaky before.

Edited March 26, 2007 by SleepyWhiteSox

[CanOfCorn]

I was responding to a post, if you don't like it don't read it. I'm not going to avoid responding to a direct statement because you can't handle it. I don't mean to be an ass but I just don't get why you did that.

 

Wiki Gonzalez is 33 years old and has been given quite a few chances, failing miserably each time and I've been thoroughly unimpressed with Molina's play in Spring Training as well as his minor league production. Nothing about either of them indicates they could produce at the major league level. As for possible replacements, there aren't a lot out there. I'd absolutely love Damian Miller but outside of that I can't think of many other names.

 

It isn't one post...it's a conglomeration of the hateration (yeah, that's right, I rhymed) that has been going on. Look, I can handle it well. Last year, when the Sox were not-a so good int he second half, I joined right in. I just don't understand why everyone is so down on this team IN SPRING TRAINING?!?! And it's getting old and wearing thin. Jeez, at least give them 10-14 regular season games before we freak out about a torn labrum or 4th outfielder. HOw many teams out there would love to have these problems instead of doling out $55 mil for a crap pitcher or $300 mil for a team that still can't pitch?

[Dick Allen]

How come nobody mentioned the craziness when Ozzie put Dye at first base for a few innings in 2005?

[shoota]

Erstad should be second actually.

 

Thome's had a little 1B experience too.

[CanOfCorn]

Thome's had a little 1B experience too.

 

I'd MUCH rather lose my backup catcher than my starting DH. And his back is to iffy to put him there. Hall's injury was a freak accident. One tweak to Thome's back and it affects him for the year.

[Kalapse]

So 2 games this spring?

 

Or at-bats, ok read that wrong. I don't know where I'm going with this anyways. I guess I'm wondering if he played at 1st this spring and looked shaky before.

He's played there a bit this spring and looked pretty bad early on in the game yesterday.

 

It isn't one post...it's a conglomeration of the hateration (yeah, that's right, I rhymed) that has been going on. Look, I can handle it well. Last year, when the Sox were not-a so good int he second half, I joined right in. I just don't understand why everyone is so down on this team IN SPRING TRAINING?!?! And it's getting old and wearing thin. Jeez, at least give them 10-14 regular season games before we freak out about a torn labrum or 4th outfielder. HOw many teams out there would love to have these problems instead of doling out $55 mil for a crap pitcher or $300 mil for a team that still can't pitch?

Some of us aren't as optimistic about this team as you are, especially with the competition in the AL Central. I guess we could put off talking about the team until mid April but that would make for an incredibly boring forum and some pretty lame discussion.

[Flash Tizzle]

He's played there a bit this spring and looked pretty bad early on in the game yesterday.

Some of us aren't as optimistic about this team as you are, especially with the competition in the AL Central. I guess we could put off talking about the team until mid April but that would make for an incredibly boring forum and some pretty lame discussion.

No, you'll probably have to wait longer than that. Especially if we're not doing well. Then we'll hear "it's only April," "divisions aren't won this early," "our schedule gets easier going forward," "Give them a chance -- they won a championship two seasons ago."

 

Or, "they haven't hit their stride."

[southsideirish71]

So, say the wife and I move into a new area that we are not too familiar with. She sends me out to go get some milk from the store (there is one that we had passed before that we wanted to give a try). When I am out, I get into an accident and tear my labrum.

 

Can I use the same logic and say that it is her fault for putting me in that situation?

 

Sorry I couldn't resist. I find it ridiculous to blame Ozzie for having Hall play baseball.

 

 

How about this one.

 

You go to work as an accountant, and in your defined role as an accountant you are in your cube. However that hot new temp across from you wants you to lift some 75 pound box that was delivered. Instead of saying, hey thats not my job you wink at her and put your back into it. You throw your back out, and now have to explain to your wife how you got hurt on the job as an accountant. Yes you could of ripped your back bending over to pick up a quarter, but the propensity to hurt yourself on a specific activity that you are not familiar with. Hall has been a catcher for a long time. Jumping from one part of the field to another is not a simple task, or you could throw Konerko over at 3rd or Dye over at 3rd any time you want. Now I understand Ozzie likes to mix and match, hence using a 5'7 midget(TIMO) over at 1st one game. 1st base is not a simple position to play, besides the footwork, and a few other nuances the chances of a hard drive to the left or right were you have to lay out is there. Ask Frank Thomas who needed to supposedly play 1st base once in a while to hit better, on how his shoulder felt when he laid out. Now did Ozzie cause his injury no. Did playing a position he is not familiar with probably lead to it, probably.

[shoota]

a 12 page thread about a back up catcher? You guys are nuts.

 

BTW, your a fool if your blaming Ozzie for this. I'm sure Hall agreed to play first base instead of been forced into the situation.

 

[TheBigHurt]

I'm so pissed. WTF was he doing playing 1B, anyway???

[spiderman]

Not sure if it's been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, but I'll ask anyways. What backup catcher besides Sandy Alomar Jr. can we hopefully add before the start of the season, assuming that Toby Hall's season is done ?

[BearSox]

What the hell are some of you doing by blaming Ozzie? Hall needs his AB's. Hall has played 1B before and is capable there. Hall has never had an injury his whole career playing the most physically demanding position in all of baseball. This was a freak injury. Ozzie did not go out there, push Hall down, and rip his labrum. I bet Hall even volunteered to play 1B, to stay in the game and get some extra ab's. Was it the smartest move, probably not. If Hall went out there and re-did the play 10x, I bet this freak injury would only happen once out of those 10x.

 

Yes, this is a big loss. My first option to replace him would be Javy Lopez, but he seems to be acting like a whiny-baby, claiming if he doesn't start, he will retire. You got cut from the freaking Rockies!!!

 

Then after reading some of these posts, I got the horrible idea of bringing Sandy back... shudders.

 

There could be a trade, but I doubt it. It just might be wikipedia...

 

Man, I miss Chris Stewart right now.

[fathom]

What the hell are some of you doing by blaming Ozzie? Hall needs his AB's. Hall has played 1B before and is capable there. Hall has never had an injury his whole career playing the most physically demanding position in all of baseball. This was a freak injury. Ozzie did not go out there, push Hall down, and rip his labrum. I bet Hall even volunteered to play 1B, to stay in the game and get some extra ab's. Was it the smartest move, probably not. If Hall went out there and re-did the play 10x, I bet this freak injury would only happen once out of those 10x.

 

Can we please stop stating this like it's a fact. He has two career at-bats there. Robin Ventura had more career at-bats at shortstop.....it doesn't mean he's capable of playing there. It's also amazing that Toby Hall has never had an injury at a position he is familiar with, and then gets hurt playing first base though. It's fine though....it's time to move on and hopefully the Sox find someone who can benefit the offense vs LHP.

Edited March 26, 2007 by fathom

[BearSox]

Can we please stop stating this like it's a fact. He has two career at-bats there. Robin Ventura had more career at-bats at shortstop.....it doesn't mean he's capable of playing there. It's also amazing that Toby Hall has never had an injury at a position he is familiar with, and then gets hurt playing first base though. It's fine though....it's time to move on and hopefully the Sox find someone who can benefit the offense vs LHP.

I bet Hall has had plenty of practice time at 1B however. And I bet Ozzie would not have put Hall out there at 1B if Hall said he was not comfortable with playing 1B. Obviously Hall felt comfortable enough to play 1B, and wanted to get extra at bats in.

[spiderman]

What the hell are some of you doing by blaming Ozzie? Hall needs his AB's. Hall has played 1B before and is capable there. Hall has never had an injury his whole career playing the most physically demanding position in all of baseball. This was a freak injury. Ozzie did not go out there, push Hall down, and rip his labrum. I bet Hall even volunteered to play 1B, to stay in the game and get some extra ab's. Was it the smartest move, probably not. If Hall went out there and re-did the play 10x, I bet this freak injury would only happen once out of those 10x.

 

Yes, this is a big loss. My first option to replace him would be Javy Lopez, but he seems to be acting like a whiny-baby, claiming if he doesn't start, he will retire. You got cut from the freaking Rockies!!!

 

Then after reading some of these posts, I got the horrible idea of bringing Sandy back... shudders.

 

There could be a trade, but I doubt it. It just might be wikipedia...

 

Man, I miss Chris Stewart right now.

 

Lopez doesn't really interest me. If I recall, he's pretty horrible defensively. we may not be able to do much better so I wouldn't rule him out, but I would prefer a bit more of a defensive backup.

[santo=dorf]

Alright this pisses me off, but I can't put all the blame on Ozzie. Sure, he put Hall in a position to fail, but Hall didn't act safely.

 

Then again I wonder how Ozzie would have reacted if Hall sandbagged it and let it go through for a hit.

 

 

I wonder what's going on in the Angels' camp. I'd like to the Sox to get my original back up catcher target, Jose Molina.

[Dick Allen]

It was a fluke play. He dove for a ball A LOT of guys would have dove for it and maybe or maybe not got hurt. What if it was Konerko? Then the Sox would be screwed. It had NOTHING to do with his inexperience, except for maybe he would have realized the game doesn't count so he wouldn't have dove. I seem to remember a guy who has played several games at first base do almost exactly the same thing and tore his tricep or bicep in Frank Thomas. After all, NONE of the games in Arizona mean anything, so why should anyone play? They might get hurt. Having a guy like Thome run the bases in the 8th inning of a game that's already decided and he comes up lame, that would be idiotic and stupid. Having Toby Hall play a few innings at first base and tearing his labrum is just bad luck.

[Chet Lemon]

KW should trade Lujan for Alomar.

[fathom]

It was a fluke play. He dove for a ball A LOT of guys would have dove for it and maybe or maybe not got hurt. What if it was Konerko? Then the Sox would be screwed. It had NOTHING to do with his inexperience, except for maybe he would have realized the game doesn't count so he wouldn't have dove. I seem to remember a guy who has played several games at first base do almost exactly the same thing and tore his tricep or bicep in Frank Thomas. After all, NONE of the games in Arizona mean anything, so why should anyone play? They might get hurt. Having a guy like Thome run the bases in the 8th inning of a game that's already decided and he comes up lame, that would be idiotic and stupid. Having Toby Hall play a few innings at first base and tearing his labrum is just bad luck.

 

What do you think about Erstad batting in the 9th and busting his ass down the line?

[WSoxMatt]

If Hall thought he was at risk of getting hurt at 1B, Im sure he would have toild that to management and he would have not been playing 1st...But since Hall found no danger playing 1st, why would KW or OG...All of you just like to complain about Ozzie about anything...If your going to complain like little women, complain at Hall for thinking he could play 1st...Im pretty positive Guillen didnt put a gun to his head and tell him to play 1st base!

Edited March 26, 2007 by WSoxMatt

[fathom]

Alright this pisses me off, but I can't put all the blame on Ozzie. Sure, he put Hall in a position to fail, but Hall didn't act safely.

 

Even though my favorite poster below disagrees, I still think experience at a position allows you to understand how to react (in this case, dive towards your right or left). I'm not calling for Ozzie to get fired for this, but I still believe it was an idiotic decision. Every manager makes some dumb decisions like this throughout Spring Training, and unfortunately we lost a key player. I'd like to see KW show the same determination to get a quality back-up catcher now as he did when he signed Hall.

 

If Hall thought he was at risk of getting hurt at 1B, Im sure he would have toild that to management and he would have not been playing 1st...But since Hall found no danger playing 1st, why would KW or OG...All of you just like to complain about Ozzie about anything...If your going to complain like little women, complain at Hall for thinking he could play 1st...Im pretty positive Guillen didnt put a gun to his head and tell him to play 1st base!

 

The team asked Hall to play first base. I don't think it would be in his best interest to say no. I just want to know about why was there never any mention of Hall possibly being a candidate to be a first base reserve before the injury happened?

[Dick Allen]

What do you think about Erstad batting in the 9th and busting his ass down the line?

I've got no problem with it as long as he's not nursing some sort of tweak in his legs. It would be nice if all the White Sox got used to busting their ass down the line. If Erstad gets hurt hustling to first base, I don't know how anyone could say he would be able to be a good player and remain healthy for an entire season.

[Flash Tizzle]

If Hall thought he was at risk of getting hurt at 1B, Im sure he would have toild that to management and he would have not been playing 1st...But since Hall found no danger playing 1st, why would KW or OG...All of you just like to complain about Ozzie about anything...If your going to complain like little women, complain at Hall for thinking he could play 1st...Im pretty positive Guillen didnt put a gun to his head and tell him to play 1st base!

That's so easy to say.

 

Imagine this -- you're in a position, as a new guy, where the manager comes up and asks whether you're comfortable at first base. Even if you're not, do you think you'd risk looking bad by rejecting the request? Then teammates may say, "he's not a team player."

 

The concern here, after Hall began fielding at 1B, was whether anyone noticed any trouble he may have been having. If there were obvious signs, Guillen absolutely has to be held accountable.