Interesting News

[Kalapse]

seriously, I have no idea what the hell that means. Tell me how Ozzie lied to Brian.

It's like selective hearing only with reading, half of that post had nothing to do with anything I had posted.

 

Ozzie gave the illusion that he was holding an open competition in the outfield, if Brian produced during the spring and beat out his competition that he would be granted a starting job. This was obviously a charade, he had Erstad penciled in as his starting centerfielder from day one and never actually intended on holding any sort of competition. That's called hypocrisy.

[Vance Law]

Erstad's stats from 2001 are clustered much closer together than his 2000 .900 OPS year. I think it's safe to ignore a career year from 7 years ago in predicting his performance for 2007.

 

Erstad from 2001 through 2006 hit .270 with a .323 OBP and .693 OPS, with about 13 SBs a season. Iguchi so far in the AL has hit .280 with a .347 OBP and .780 OPS with 13 SBs a season. One hundred points of OPS is a big difference, and Iguchi will have a higher OBP this year than Erstad IMO. I think having Erstad hit #2 is bad decision.

 

Precisely. Thank you hitlesswonder.

[caulfield12]

Precisely. Thank you hitlesswonder.

 

 

But you could do the same thing for Jermaine Dye or Frank Thomas over similar lead-up periods to their 2006 seasons and nothing would predict what they accomplished, particularly Thomas.

 

Erstad is still relatively young...I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and side with OG and KW on this one.

[NorthSideSox72]

But you could do the same thing for Jermaine Dye or Frank Thomas over similar lead-up periods to their 2006 seasons and nothing would predict what they accomplished, particularly Thomas.

 

Erstad is still relatively young...I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and side with OG and KW on this one.

Everything about Frank Thomas said that he would accomplish exactly what he did, if he was healthy. That was the only question.

[supernuke]

It's like selective hearing only with reading, half of that post had nothing to do with anything I had posted.

 

Ozzie gave the illusion that he was holding an open competition in the outfield, if Brian produced during the spring and beat out his competition that he would be granted a starting job. This was obviously a charade, he had Erstad penciled in as his starting centerfielder from day one and never actually intended on holding any sort of competition. That's called hypocrisy.

 

 

Maybe Ozzie gave the illusion of an open competition to try and motivate BA to work hard and improve. Maybe he felt that if he told BA sorry kid I don't think you are ready for the starting job that there would be no reason for him to work and try and get better. Maybe it was an open competition and there is still something that Ozzie wants to see from this guy that just isn't there.

[Kalapse]

Maybe Ozzie gave the illusion of an open competition to try and motivate BA to work hard and improve. Maybe he felt that if he told BA sorry kid I don't think you are ready for the starting job that there would be no reason for him to work and try and get better. Maybe it was an open competition and there is still something that Ozzie wants to see from this guy that just isn't there.

So he fed him bulls*** for the whole damn month about still being in the running for a starting job, every damn day going to the media saying if Brian produces in Spring he's my guy and the whole thing was just a ruse to get Brian motivated? That's just ridiculous if true. What did Darin Erstad do during the Spring to earn the starting CF job? Is Ozzie's motto: "Nothing is just handed to you everything is earned" just a crock of s***? Erstad and Podsednik were handed jobs this Spring, neither of them earned it.

 

And to say "he saw something in Erstad that he didn't see in Anderson" or anything along those lines is such a cop out. He could say that at any time to justify any asinine decision he chooses to make. "I've decided to go with Alex Cintron as my secondbaseman, I just saw something in his this Spring that I did not see in Tadahito." You as a fan can not question that, he is immune to criticism because you're not out there on the practice fields every day watching these guys play, if he says he saw something in Cintron that makes him a better candidate to start over Iguchi then who are you to question him. What if Ozzie had used this logic in choosing Floyd over Danks for the 5th spot? "Floyd just showed me somthing that Danks didn't" Would that be acceptable?

 

At a certain point lying to motivate a player becomes too much and the word of Ozzie as a man comes into question, how can you EVER believe anything he says? He could have some ulterior motives behind the things he says. What about Brian in all of this? He did everything asked of him this spring and beat out the competition yet despite meeting the objectives of his manager and being rewarded accordingly he's told "Sorry kid, you never really had a shot" or "Not good enough". Seems pretty slimy to me.

[scenario]

So he fed him bulls*** for the whole damn month about still being in the running for a starting job, every damn day going to the media saying if Brian produces in Spring he's my guy and the whole thing was just a ruse to get Brian motivated? That's just ridiculous if true. What did Darin Erstad do during the Spring to earn the starting CF job? Is Ozzie's motto: "Nothing is just handed to you everything is earned" just a crock of s***? Erstad and Podsednik were handed jobs this Spring, neither of them earned it.

 

And to say "he saw something in Erstad that he didn't see in Anderson" or anything along those lines is such a cop out. He could say that at any time to justify any asinine decision he chooses to make. "I've decided to go with Alex Cintron as my secondbaseman, I just saw something in his this Spring that I did not see in Tadahito." You as a fan can not question that, he is immune to criticism because you're not out there on the practice fields every day watching these guys play, if he says he saw something in Cintron that makes him a better candidate to start over Iguchi then who are you to question him. What if Ozzie had used this logic in choosing Floyd over Danks for the 5th spot? "Floyd just showed me somthing that Danks didn't" Would that be acceptable?

 

At a certain point lying to motivate a player becomes too much and the word of Ozzie as a man comes into question, how can you EVER believe anything he says? He could have some ulterior motives behind the things he says. What about Brian in all of this? He did everything asked of him this spring and beat out the competition yet despite meeting the objectives of his manager and being rewarded accordingly he's told "Sorry kid, you never really had a shot" or "Not good enough". Seems pretty slimy to me.

 

What a bunch of horse****

 

Brian was hitting .180 something, then went on a short binge, then had another drought, then picked it up again.

 

Erstad was consistent. Brian wasn't.

 

The coaches picked the guy they thought did the better job and would give us a better chance to win.

 

If you think there's any more to it than that you're deluding yourself.

[StrangeSox]

What a bunch of horse****

 

Brian was hitting .180 something, then went on a short binge, then had another drought, then picked it up again.

 

Erstad was consistent. Brian wasn't.

 

The coaches picked the guy they thought did the better job and would give us a better chance to win.

If you think there's any more to it than that you're deluding yourself.

 

What's being debated is Ozzie's questionable thought process.

[witesoxfan]

But you could do the same thing for Jermaine Dye or Frank Thomas over similar lead-up periods to their 2006 seasons and nothing would predict what they accomplished, particularly Thomas.

 

Erstad is still relatively young...I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and side with OG and KW on this one.

 

so Jermaine Dye's .274 31 86 .333/.512/.845 gave no indication that he may be rebounding from his injuries? Or his 104 homers after 2000 and before 2006 in about 4 seasons worth of work? Or his consistently increasing OPS over the past 4 years? Or his career OPS of 110? None of that?

 

Darin Erstad's OPS is decreasing, his average is decreasing, his power is decreasing, he's becoming seemingly more injury prone, he doesn't make as much contact as he used to, he doesn't walk as much, and he's losing speed. Now, what of that suggests to you that he'll rebound to his 2000 form?

 

Darin Erstad and Jermaine Dye comparisons needed to stop in January.

[iamshack]

What's being debated is Ozzie's questionable thought process.

 

Which is exactly what Scenario addressed. He's simply stating that what Kalapse and some other posters have speculated was Ozzie's thought process was not his actual thought process. He then goes on to speculate what may have been.

 

Personally, I think that as long as Erstad showed he was healthy, he was going to get the job.

[Colorado Sox Fan]

You just read whatever the f*** you want don't you?

 

Assuming an Erstad injury is no reason to mess with the kid. What is the point of telling him he has a shot at being a starter when he has no chance at all? Seems a bit hypocritical and stupid to me, it has nothing to do with career sabotage or Ozzie being some kind of evil bastard like you make it out to be it has to do with being a hypocrite which Ozzie has proved himself to be with the bulls*** he pulled this spring.

 

He gave him a shot and Anderson proved again that he is clueless at the plate.

[Kalapse]

What a bunch of horse****

 

Brian was hitting .180 something, then went on a short binge, then had another drought, then picked it up again.

 

Erstad was consistent. Brian wasn't.

 

The coaches picked the guy they thought did the better job and would give us a better chance to win.

 

If you think there's any more to it than that you're deluding yourself.

Darin Erstad had a .300 OBP just last week, he's now at .333 what the hell is consistent about that?

 

The overall numbers point to Brian and that's what needs to be looked at here since that is what Ozzie said would be looked at at the beginning of the Spring.

 

Player A: 70 AB | 10 R | 1 HR | 8 RBI | 4 BB | 12 SO | .300/.333/.400/.733

 

Player B: 46 AB | 6 R | 2 HR | 5 RBI | 7 BB | 6 SO | .283/.370/.457/.827

 

So player A was given 24 more at bats and was hitting 1-2 in the lineup every game. Player B was hitting 8-9 in every game. It's going to be fun having a 2 hole hitter who's striking out 3 times for every walk.

 

He gave him a shot and Anderson proved again that he is clueless at the plate.

Despite drawing the 3rd most walks on the team in spring and posting a .827 OPS? I must say Erstad's 3 strikeout days showed me just how outstanding he is with the bat in his hand.

[BigSqwert]

He gave him a shot and Anderson proved again that he is clueless at the plate.

What exactly did Erstad do in ST to prove he deserves to play ahead of Brian?

[witesoxfan]

He gave him a shot and Anderson proved again that he is clueless at the plate.

 

Have you watched any of the games or looked at any of the numbers? Or are you just saying that based on an unwarranted hatred for Brian Anderson?

[whitesoxfan101]

Ahhh the Ozzie supporters out in full force. When will they realize that he has no clue what he's doing in terms of on field decisions?

Edited March 27, 2007 by Rowand44

[ShoeLessRob]

Ahhh the Ozzie supporters out in full force. When will they realize that he has no clue what he's doing in terms of on field decisions?

 

Awesome.

Edited March 27, 2007 by Rowand44

[NorthSideSox72]

Ahhh the Ozzie supporters out in full force. When will they realize that he has no clue what he's doing in terms of on field decisions?

Ahhh the serial complainers out in full force. When will they realize if they knew better than the people on the field, they'd be doing it for a living?

Edited March 27, 2007 by Rowand44

[whitesoxfan101]

Ahhh the serial complainers out in full force. When will they realize if they knew better than the people on the field, they'd be doing it for a living?

Actually, I could manage this team better than Ozzie, as could 90 percent of this board. Just because I'm not making baseball coaching my career doesn't mean i'm stupid, just like just because somebody played doesn't mean they can manage (ie our manager).

 

Awesome.

 

Ahh I try, and it usually works.

[NorthSideSox72]

Actually, I could manage this team better than Ozzie, as could 90 percent of this board. Just because I'm not making baseball coaching my career doesn't mean i'm stupid, just like just because somebody played doesn't mean they can manage (ie our manager).

Ahh I try, and it usually works.

 

That's hilarious. I dislike lots of what Ozzie does, but you need to have some perspective on reality here. You think 90% of the people here could manage the team better than the guy with the World Series ring???

[whitesoxfan101]

 

That's hilarious. I dislike lots of what Ozzie does, but you need to have some perspective on reality here. You think 90% of the people here could manage the team better than the guy with the World Series ring???

 

Probably not, that was an exaggeration. But among regular posters, more than half could. You seem to overestimate Ozzie's impact on 2005. We got to the playoffs, won in the playoffs, and were Champs due to all time great pitching and hundreds of home runs, and basically every big hit that October was a home run (except a double off the wall by PK to put game 5 away in Anaheim, and JD's game winning hit in game 4 in Houston).

[NorthSideSox72]

Probably not, that was an exaggeration. But among regular posters, more than half could. You seem to overestimate Ozzie's impact on 2005. We got to the playoffs, won in the playoffs, and were Champs due to all time great pitching and hundreds of home runs, and basically every big hit that October was a home run (except a double off the wall by PK to put game 5 away in Anaheim, and JD's game winning hit in game 4 in Houston).

I won't get into the discussion of how much Ozzie had to do with 2005, because I don't think it was huge either. But your statement is still laughable. No way people here could do what he did that year or even last year with the same talent. Maybe there are a few people here who could, with a bunch of years of coaching and/or playing at pro levels, get close. Maybe - there is no telling for sure. But to say half of them could, now, outmanage anyone at the ML level, is a joke.

[jphat007]

Probably not, that was an exaggeration. But among regular posters, more than half could.

 

LOL

[whitesoxfan101]

I won't get into the discussion of how much Ozzie had to do with 2005, because I don't think it was huge either. But your statement is still laughable. No way people here could do what he did that year or even last year with the same talent. Maybe there are a few people here who could, with a bunch of years of coaching and/or playing at pro levels, get close. Maybe - there is no telling for sure. But to say half of them could, now, outmanage anyone at the ML level, is a joke.

 

Overall your obviously right, but in terms of basic, everyday in game decisions and deciding who plays in games, your not. Ozzie's managing moves, many of which people on this board could see were stupid, kept us out of the postseason last year.

[fathom]

Overall your obviously right, but in terms of basic, everyday in game decisions and deciding who plays in games, your not. Ozzie's managing moves, many of which people on this board could see were stupid, kept us out of the postseason last year.

 

You know I hate Ozzie, but if you're going to say that his moves last year kept us out of the postseason, then you can't not give him credit for what we accomplished in 2005.

[supernuke]

So he fed him bulls*** for the whole damn month about still being in the running for a starting job, every damn day going to the media saying if Brian produces in Spring he's my guy and the whole thing was just a ruse to get Brian motivated? That's just ridiculous if true. What did Darin Erstad do during the Spring to earn the starting CF job? Is Ozzie's motto: "Nothing is just handed to you everything is earned" just a crock of s***? Erstad and Podsednik were handed jobs this Spring, neither of them earned it.

 

And to say "he saw something in Erstad that he didn't see in Anderson" or anything along those lines is such a cop out. He could say that at any time to justify any asinine decision he chooses to make. "I've decided to go with Alex Cintron as my secondbaseman, I just saw something in his this Spring that I did not see in Tadahito." You as a fan can not question that, he is immune to criticism because you're not out there on the practice fields every day watching these guys play, if he says he saw something in Cintron that makes him a better candidate to start over Iguchi then who are you to question him. What if Ozzie had used this logic in choosing Floyd over Danks for the 5th spot? "Floyd just showed me somthing that Danks didn't" Would that be acceptable?

 

At a certain point lying to motivate a player becomes too much and the word of Ozzie as a man comes into question, how can you EVER believe anything he says? He could have some ulterior motives behind the things he says. What about Brian in all of this? He did everything asked of him this spring and beat out the competition yet despite meeting the objectives of his manager and being rewarded accordingly he's told "Sorry kid, you never really had a shot" or "Not good enough". Seems pretty slimy to me.

 

Although I really don't see anything in BA I do agree that he should be starting over Erstad. I have no problem with people questioning Ozzie's decisions, he definatley makes some bad ones. I just don't see how so many people can claim to know the reasoning behind his decisions. Like I said questioning his decision to start Erstad is fine, but saying that BA was never given a chance is nothing but speculation. Ozzie may have given BA a chance and just didn't see what he wanted to see, I disagree with the decision but I couldn't call him a liar or a hyppocrite because of it.

Edited March 27, 2007 by supernuke