Iran siezes British troops

[southsider2k5]

I am kind of surprised I haven't seen anyone post this here, especially with some Gulf of Tonkin references.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17809763/

 

Blair warns of ‘different phase’ over sailors

 

Iran says it may charge the 15 sailors and marines with illegally entering its waters. Britain insists the two boatloads of sailors were in Iraqi waters in the northern Gulf and has demanded their immediate release.

 

“What we are trying to do ... is to pursue this through the diplomatic channels and make the Iranian government understand these people have to be released and that there is absolutely no justification whatever for holding them,” Blair said.

 

“And I hope we manage to get them to realize they have to release them. If not, then this will move into a different phase,” he told Britain's GMTV.

 

Earlier Tuesday, Iran said the detained British sailors and marines are healthy and are being treated in a humane fashion.

 

“They are in completely good health. Rest assured that they have been treated with humanitarian and moral behavior,” Mohammad Ali Hosseini, a spokesman for the Foreign Ministry, told The Associated Press.

 

Hosseini said the only female sailor among the group enjoyed complete privacy. “Definitely all ethics have been observed,” he said.

 

The official did not say where the marines were being kept and reiterated that their case is under investigation.

 

“The case should follow procedures,” Hosseini said. “Media hyperbole will not help (speed things up).”

 

'Intentional or unintentional'?

On Monday, Iran said it was interrogating the troops detained in disputed waters to determine whether they intentionally entered its territory — an indication the country might be seeking a way out of the confrontation with Britain.

 

Britain denies its personnel had left Iraqi territory when they were captured and detained by Iran — a contention backed by Iraq’s foreign minister, who called on Iran to release the group.

 

In comments read out by a newscaster, Iranian Deputy Foreign Minister Mehzi Mostafavi did not say what Iran plans to do with the British sailors, but he said they were being interrogated at a secret location. Iran says they are being well-treated.

 

“It should become clear whether their entry (into Iran) was intentional or unintentional. After that is clarified, the necessary decision will be made,” Mostafavi said.

 

Britain and the United States have said the sailors and marines were intercepted Friday just after they completed a search of a civilian vessel in the Iraqi part of the Shatt al-Arab waterway leading to the Persian Gulf, where the border with Iran has historically been disputed.

 

Separately, Iran’s ambassador to Iraq, Hassan Kazemi Qomi, told The Associated Press in a telephone interview from Baghdad that there was no connection between the seizures of the 15 and any other issues between the West and Iran. He, like Mostafavi, denied any aim for a prisoner swap.

 

“They entered Iranian territorial waters and were arrested and are undergoing the process of investigation and interrogation. It has nothing to do with other issues,” he said.

 

The United States holds at least five Iranians taken captive in Iraq, claiming they part of an Iranian Revolutionary Guard force that provides funds, weapons and training to Shiite militias in Iraq.

 

The question of where exactly the 15 Britons were when detained has proved impossible to confirm independently, with Britain asserting they were in Iraqi waters but refusing to release precise geographical data and Iran asserting the opposite.

 

Reuters and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17810017/

 

U.S. launches show of force in Persian Gulf

 

Updated: 2 hours, 12 minutes ago

DUBAI, United Arab Emirates - The U.S. Navy on Tuesday began its largest demonstration of force in the Persian Gulf since the 2003 invasion of Iraq, led by a pair of aircraft carriers and backed by warplanes flying simulated attack maneuvers off the coast of Iran.

 

The maneuvers bring together two strike groups of U.S. warships and more than 100 U.S. warplanes to conduct simulated air warfare in the crowded Gulf shipping lanes.

 

The U.S. exercises come just four days after Iran’s capture of 15 British sailors and marines who Iran said had strayed into Iranian waters near the Gulf. Britain and the U.S. Navy have insisted the British sailors were operating in Iraqi waters.

 

U.S. Navy Cmdr. Kevin Aandahl said the U.S. maneuvers were not organized in response to the capture of the British sailors — nor were they meant to threaten the Islamic Republic, whose navy operates in the same waters.

 

He declined to specify when the Navy planned the exercises.

 

Aandahl said the U.S. warships would stay out of Iranian territorial waters, which extend 12 miles off the Iranian coast.

 

© 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed

[NorthSideSox72]

I almost posted it when it happened, but I was surprised too that it went unposted.

 

"different phase" sounds ominous. This could turn out to be nothing, like the last time the Iranians "arrested" some Brits and turned them back unharmed. Or, it could get ugly.

[EvilMonkey]

I know the British navy is a small shadow of its former self, but within 48 hours of this happening, they should have made the Iranian Navy cease to exist.

[NorthSideSox72]

I know the British navy is a small shadow of its former self, but within 48 hours of this happening, they should have made the Iranian Navy cease to exist.

We don't have the available resources, nor the assets in place, to suddenly be at war with Iran right now. That would not go well.

[EvilMonkey]

We don't have the available resources, nor the assets in place, to suddenly be at war with Iran right now. That would not go well.

I did not say us, i said the brits should have shown the balls to stand up to that obvious act of war and issued an ultimatum: Return of people in 48 hours, or you cease to have a Navy. Then, do it. As for us, I think our Navy is pretty bored right now, a few Tomahawks and some 5" rounds would do wonders.

[NorthSideSox72]

I did not say us, i said the brits should have shown the balls to stand up to that obvious act of war and issued an ultimatum: Return of people in 48 hours, or you cease to have a Navy. Then, do it. As for us, I think our Navy is pretty bored right now, a few Tomahawks and some 5" rounds would do wonders.

This has been brought up before. That sort of thinking is what got us into the Iraq mess: act militarily without considering what that means down the road. Do you think that Iran would just stand idley by while their navy was destroyed? Iran is not Iraq. They still have a functioning air force, and a large military. No way they'd just take the pounding and not act.

 

And in Iraq, the Brits means US as well.

[southsider2k5]

This has been brought up before. That sort of thinking is what got us into the Iraq mess: act militarily without considering what that means down the road. Do you think that Iran would just stand idley by while their navy was destroyed? Iran is not Iraq. They still have a functioning air force, and a large military. No way they'd just take the pounding and not act.

 

And in Iraq, the Brits means US as well.

 

Well to spin that question around, do you think Iran would stand by while the British seized one of their ships and 15 sailors?

[Soxy]

Well to spin that question around, do you think Iran would stand by while the British seized one of their ships and 15 sailors?

No, but they are also led by a crazy person who is rapidly losing the support of the common people.

EDIT: What I mean by this is that I don't think we should allow our national policies to be something that would mirror Iran. In fact, I think that would be a disaster for well, everyone.

 

I saw this news story when it came up, and I just thought, "Frick, there is a nightmare." I mean, how do you deal with a country that has the stability of, say, Tom Cruise? I hope the British soldiers get back safely, but this is a really as close to a no win situation as you can get.

[NorthSideSox72]

Well to spin that question around, do you think Iran would stand by while the British seized one of their ships and 15 sailors?

Like Soxy says, hard to tell with a psycho running the show. Looking at recent history, they'd probably make a lot of noise in the press, and then act subversively against American troops in Iraq. No direct action. I don't think Iran will act in any direct military fashion unless they are attacked.

[Balta1701]

Well to spin that question around, do you think Iran would stand by while the British seized one of their ships and 15 sailors?

Well, we actually have some examples to look at recently...because there have been Iranian personnel taken into custody by the U.S. in Iraq, almost always people who are there on some sort of diplomatic visit. And Iran has done exactly what the British have done in this case...raise immediate diplomatic protests and see what happens. Usually, the people have been released in a couple of days without further incident.

[kapkomet]

Can't we all just get along?

[Balta1701]

Can't we all just get along?

 

You have been shot in the face.

[Soxy]

The plot thickens

Excerpt:

Russia slams U.S. global policy

 

By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 47 minutes ago

 

MOSCOW - Russia's Foreign Ministry on Tuesday criticized the United States for what it called over-reliance on force and warned Washington against military action against

Iran.

 

But in a major review of foreign policy priorities, the ministry said Russia was ready to cooperate to end global crises if Washington treats it as an equal partner.

 

The statement reflects Russia's growing confidence and economic clout, and appears to be a signal to Washington that, while the two nations can work together, Russia will not always follow the U.S. lead. It also plays to national pride in advance of parliamentary and presidential elections.

 

Russia criticized what it called "the creeping American strategy of dragging the global community into a large-scale crisis around Iran," saying that Iran helps maintain stability in

Afghanistan and Central Asia.

[kapkomet]

 

You have been shot in the face.

OW!

 

 

And Soxy's clip is interesting, too. There's a lot of "saber rattling", but I doubt much is happening.

[Jenksismyhero]

The plot thickens

Excerpt:

Russia slams U.S. global policy

 

By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 47 minutes ago

 

MOSCOW - Russia's Foreign Ministry on Tuesday criticized the United States for what it called over-reliance on force and warned Washington against military action against

Iran.

 

But in a major review of foreign policy priorities, the ministry said Russia was ready to cooperate to end global crises if Washington treats it as an equal partner.

 

The statement reflects Russia's growing confidence and economic clout, and appears to be a signal to Washington that, while the two nations can work together, Russia will not always follow the U.S. lead. It also plays to national pride in advance of parliamentary and presidential elections.

 

Russia criticized what it called "the creeping American strategy of dragging the global community into a large-scale crisis around Iran," saying that Iran helps maintain stability in

Afghanistan and Central Asia.

 

 

Gee this wouldn't be because Iran owes Russia a ton of money. Sorta like France and Saddam...

[southsider2k5]

Personally I think this a calculated ploy for ahmadinejad to be able to claim some sort of a "victory" over the west and prop up his sagging approval ratings back home. Nothing unites a country like a common enemy.

[Soxy]

Personally I think this a calculated ploy for ahmadinejad to be able to claim some sort of a "victory" over the west and prop up his sagging approval ratings back home. Nothing unites a country like a common enemy.

It might be a ploy, but I really doubt the Iranians are that stupid.

 

I am concerned about what role China and Russia will play in the unfolding Iran drama.

[kapkomet]

Personally I think this a calculated ploy for Bush to be able to claim some sort of a "victory" over the islamofacists and prop up his sagging approval ratings back home. Nothing unites a country like a common enemy.

Fixed that for you. I mean, we only have a war mongerer for a President!

 

 

It might be a ploy, but I really doubt the Iranians are that stupid.

 

I am concerned about what role China and Russia will play in the unfolding Iran drama.

And there's really the heart of the matter. Russia, and even more importantly, China, have HUGE economic interests in Iran. They are really rattling cupboards around the world aligning themselves for what happens if $$$ gets seized up due to a "conflict" with Iran.

[southsider2k5]

It might be a ploy, but I really doubt the Iranians are that stupid.

 

I am concerned about what role China and Russia will play in the unfolding Iran drama.

 

Actually I don't think it is stupid, I think you hit it on the head in your first post... unstable. People do stupid things when they feel threatened, and this guy is threatened and half insane. Not a good combo.

[Soxy]

Actually I don't think it is stupid, I think you hit it on the head in your first post... unstable. People do stupid things when they feel threatened, and this guy is threatened and half insane. Not a good combo.

I meant the Iranian people in general aren't dumb enough to believe that 15 British soldiers were going to do anythign about it. I DO believe the Iranian government is stupid (and crazy) enough to believe that this ploy will work.

[southsider2k5]

I meant the Iranian people in general aren't dumb enough to believe that 15 British soldiers were going to do anythign about it. I DO believe the Iranian government is stupid (and crazy) enough to believe that this ploy will work.

 

The problem is that there is no such thing as an independant media to even start to portray this as an accident, or whatever it was. The ayatollahs approve all news coverage, and you can bet your bottom dollar that this is getting reported as an act of British aggression that was bravely met by the heroic Iranians... or something.

[Balta1701]

The problem is that there is no such thing as an independant media to even start to portray this as an accident, or whatever it was. The ayatollahs approve all news coverage, and you can bet your bottom dollar that this is getting reported as an act of British aggression that was bravely met by the heroic Iranians... or something.

So, I'm just curious...am I the only person left in the world who actually thinks its important for some side to come forwards with some evidence about the actual position where this incident happened? The Brits haven't done so yet, and neither have the Iranians, but both have made claims on the position of the incident, and their position relative to the coastlines (on what is in fact a disputed border) is certainly a key to learning who is the one being the aggressor here.

[NorthSideSox72]

So, I'm just curious...am I the only person left in the world who actually thinks its important for some side to come forwards with some evidence about the actual position where this incident happened? The Brits haven't done so yet, and neither have the Iranians, but both have made claims on the position of the incident, and their position relative to the coastlines (on what is in fact a disputed border) is certainly a key to learning who is the one being the aggressor here.

The Brits hinted that they know exactly where they were and that they were not in Iranian waters. But even if they released that, Iran will probably have a different idea of "their" waters anyway, so the evidence is probably not meaningful in the dialogue stage. Now, if it gets uglier, and the UK decides to act militarily, and needs support from other countries... then the GPS data matters.

[StrangeSox]

US Launches Show of Force in Gulf

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17810017/

[southsider2k5]

So, I'm just curious...am I the only person left in the world who actually thinks its important for some side to come forwards with some evidence about the actual position where this incident happened? The Brits haven't done so yet, and neither have the Iranians, but both have made claims on the position of the incident, and their position relative to the coastlines (on what is in fact a disputed border) is certainly a key to learning who is the one being the aggressor here.

 

From what I understand, both sides know exactly where they were, but the waters are claimed by both Iran and Iraq historically.