Sisco and Aardsma Complete Bullpen

[jphat007]

Not a fan of this move at all. Not a fan of Sisco at all. Wasn't a fan of the Gload for Sisco trade then, and am not now. Justin Morneau is gonna like Sisco up.

[Harry Chappas]

What are the ages of Sisco and Logan? I really think the veteran for youth line is idiodic. Aardesma isn't a verteran either. Sisco was choosen over Logan because Logan is unable to provide more than an inning of relief and has mediocore stuff. Logan was given a shot last year and failed miserably.

 

Sisco and Aardesma have better stuff and that is what the Sox are thinking. They are not wanting to put guys who throw 91 and may or may not have a breaking or offspeed pitch out there.

 

I believe Logan is trade bait right now. The memory of Hafner just destroying a pitch from Logan remains fresh in my mind.

 

Kind of rambling here but I just don't see how this is that big of an issue. Logan pitched well and may get a shot if Sisco fails.

[southsider2k5]

It's been obvious all spring that this organization was going to keep the guys they traded for over the ones that earned a spot, and that 3 lefties in the pen was not an option. Hence Aardsma over Haeger, Sisco over Logan, and Aardsma and Masset being locks. Only reason Floyd didn't make it is we aren't carrying 12 pitchers. Sadly, that appears obviously how they are making decisions.

 

This is exactly it.

 

 

Even without tangible proof available (other than statistics), I believe Williams entered spring training with the preconceived notion that atleast four of his offseason acquisitions (via trade) would make the ballclub.

 

You have:

 

Floyd

Gonzalez

Massett

Danks

Aardsma

Sisco

 

He probably felt Floyd would earn the 5th starters spot (and was anointed the favorite early) and Massett, Aardsma, Sisco would enter the bullpen. Danks earning the position in the 5th role allowed Williams to somewhat save face and send down Floyd.

 

Can anyone seriously suggest anyone aside from Danks earned a roster position? In a perfect world, Aardsma and Sisco would be in AAA and Haeger and Logan would be preparing for Chicago. I'm still wondering how Massett was basically handed a bullpen spot last week...

 

Doubt me if you will, but it sure wouldn't look good for Williams if only a couple names from the offseason were to make the ballclub.

 

everyone blaming Ozzie for this spring hasn't gotten it by now, they might never get it. For all of the talking Ozzie does, his opinion doesn't mean a damned thing. He wanted Brian Anderson gone, he is on the team. He is getting stuck with all of Kenny Williams aquisitions from over the winter, until further notice. This is all about Kenny Williams looking good. Ozzie hasn't factored in her at all. If these guys suck, Kenny Williams is the one who needs to be put on notice.

[Balta1701]

OH FOR CRYING OUT LOUD WHAT KIND OF STUPID SH*T IS THIS? WHAT IN THE WORLD DO YOU HAVE TO DO TO EARN A FREAKING SPOT ON THIS TEAM? IT CLEARLY HAS NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH HOW YOU PERFORM ON THE FIELD!! GOOD LORD!

 

Great, what a way to ruin my morning.

[nitetrain8601]

Johan learned the changeup from the AAA pitching coach.

 

He worked on the pitch in AAA, I don't know who he learned it from, but the Twins' pitching coach told him to develop that or a breaking pitch. So he goes to AAA and learns a change. It's basically the same idea the Sox are going to do with Sisco. At least, I hope that's the reason why.

[Milkman delivers]

Wow, like 3 pages of discussion on pessimists, and I wasn't mentioned once. I'm kinda disappointed in myself.

[SoxAce]

He worked on the pitch in AAA, I don't know who he learned it from

 

Supposedly from what I heard and from what other Twins fans are saying, it was Brad Radke. Again, who knows.

[ScottyDo]

It's becoming more and more apparent that this organization is littered with incompetence from the top down. You want a long f***ing reliever? There's a guy who throws a knuckleball just begging for that spot, but I guess the 6'10 lefty with no idea where the ball is going is better. And because Logan isn't on the team, you're basically delegating Thornton as your LOOGY, when it's apparent to anyone with a f***ing brain that he's more valuable than that.

 

Jesus f***ing Christ.

To be fair, Haeger doesn't know where the ball is going either

 

On a side note, I'd rather have sisco in the pen than effing Aardsma. At least Sisco has more than 1.5 pitches in his repetoire.

[Texsox]

The entire White Sox organization would like to thank those posters that have tried galantely to distract fans from the obvious. Their b****ing and whining towards each other is effectively keeping them from b****ing and whining at our incredibly stupid roster moves. Inside joke: we had never seen an 0.0 ERA and thought it was bad, not good. Go figure.

 

Sincerely,

JR, KW, OG and a cast of dozens

[shoota]

I'm going to go out on a limb here.

 

McCarthy, Tracey, Anderson, Logan

 

Remember how much Ozzie hates it when his young players decide to open their mouths.

 

I agree with your point, but Tracey never opened his mouth. He was apologetic after the game, took the blame and never pointed a finger in public.

 

So we have no long reliever? Sweet.

 

Guillen doesn't know how to properly use a long reliever anyway. He totally mishandled last year's long reliever, Brandon McCarthy.

[shoota]

I'm not defending Ozzie or the move, but we did see this movie last year. Maybe they're not confident in his ability to get major leaguers out yet? Maybe they want him to get a little more run down at Charlotte? It's not out of the question.

 

Your post is irrelevant because Guillen didn't say he was going with the players he's most confident in, but with the guys who earned it in ST. Choosing Sisco over Logan shows Guillen lied.

 

 

 

 

 

Oh I know there's people on this board who despise me because I b**** so damn much and you know what? I love to read them b**** about me b****ing, there's some just so b****in' about it. WORDS ARE FUN.

 

And that is such bulls***, Flash b****es WAY more than I do. All that guy does is complain.

Honestly, at this point I don't really have much respect for him anymore, basically in every way imaginable. I think he's earned it and he's lucky he did because no one is just handed my disrespect, the have to earn it on the playing field.

I'm just going to go ahead and cross his name off now.

 

McCarthy, Tracey, Anderson, Logan

 

We'll never see him in a Sox uni again.

 

I've had suspicion Guillen has disliked McCarthy, Tracey and Anderson based on personal issues, but I don't get the same feeling with Logan. I agree that Guillen lied to Logan and gave him a raw deal, but I don't know why Guillen doesn't like Logan. Do you?

 

i love the message were sending to the kids down on the farm, even if you post a 0ERA in spring unless your in with Ozzie, GTFO N00BZ0rz!!!!!!!!

 

 

[Wanne]

I thought the idea was to try and develop Sisco as a starter...but the problem was it would have left the bullpen thin. Then here you have Logan throwing lights out solving that problem...and he's the one that gets sent down. BRILLIANT.

 

Sisco will be sent down by June 1st IMO.

Edited March 29, 2007 by Wanne

[Flash Tizzle]

This is exactly it.

everyone blaming Ozzie for this spring hasn't gotten it by now, they might never get it. For all of the talking Ozzie does, his opinion doesn't mean a damned thing. He wanted Brian Anderson gone, he is on the team. He is getting stuck with all of Kenny Williams aquisitions from over the winter, until further notice. This is all about Kenny Williams looking good. Ozzie hasn't factored in her at all. If these guys suck, Kenny Williams is the one who needs to be put on notice.

This is exactly it. If Anderson is on this team over Guillen's preference, Terrero, it's obvious his personal choices for roster positions can be overruled.

 

I believe many around here assume Guillen holds more weight because he supposedly influenced Williams to adopt a small-ball approach to the team entering 2005.

 

With Danks, it'll be interesting to see which pitcher from Charlotte is immediately promoted if he isn't doing well. IMO, Haeger should be the first choice. We'll see if Williams is willing to push his own guy, Floyd. If the results favor Floyd I'll understand. But I don't think they will, so we'll see what happens.

[GreatScott82]

Im not going to be a pessimist about this thing. Sisco and Aardsma just may be picking up their game once the season starts. However, it kind of bugs me that the bullpen was pretty much announced and set by KW before ST even started. Logan definitley deserves one of the spots, at least as a long reliever. Is KW just afraid to look dumb by making trades for players whome won't even start the season at the MLB level? Its not about our GM's ego.. we are trying to win games here. Sisco and Aardsma better step it up!!

[longshot7]

Okay so I got Jenks, McDougal, Thornton, Sisco, and Aardsma. Who am I missing? There's 6, right?

[beck72]

Heh, subconscious slip there Beck? won't even say what part...

If the sox have to flip guys around, might as well start the year with experienced bullpen arms. The biggest thing is the sox have options. And it seems the young guys are the options, at least for the bullpen.

 

Logan was the biggest surprise of not coming north. And seeing how he handled things last year [iIRC, Boone himself said he flipped out] Ozzie and the sox staff have seemed to have gone with guys who can "handle" the pressure of being in the bigs. Danks seems to fit that mold. As well as Masset, Sisco and Aardsma.

[Jordan4life_2007]

Okay so I got Jenks, McDougal, Thornton, Sisco, and Aardsma. Who am I missing? There's 6, right?

 

Masset.

[Chisoxfn]

So we have no long reliever? Sweet.

Lets see, Masset and Sisco are both capable of throwing more than a couple innings so I think those count. Plus, lets be honest, long relievers are vastly over-rated and rarely used, especially for teams that have four veteran starters like the Sox have.

 

The last thing I'm concerned with is not having a good long reliever because usually if a long reliever or two are key to your club its a bad sign because your starting pitching is either very banged up or flat out terrible and I don't expect that to happen.

 

I'm also far from concerned because I watched this team the prior couple springs put up pretty pathetic records and still play very well in the regular season (and lets be honest, last years team, while it was terribly dissapointing and pour at times was still a very good team, better so than the team that won the world series, imo). I know Ozzie plays a lot more youngsters and he lets them take a beating. That said there is no doubt that a lot of our veterans struggled as well but again I do buy into the fact (to a point) that veterans know how to get ready for the season and they have earned the benefit of the doubt because they've produced at the major league level relatively consistently in the past.

 

Really, the only thing you ask for out of spring training is health and development and while we didn't win as much as I'd have liked and our pitching really was inconsistent, I'm still glad this team is healthy and I know it has a lot of top notch major league talent on the squad and that is a necessary quality if your going to win in the regular season.

[NorthSideSox72]

Looking at some Ozzie quotes in today's Sun Times, regarding Logan's demotion...

 

''He was disappointed, but he took it like a man,'' Guillen said of Logan. ''We explained to him all the situations. If you aren't disappointed being sent down to the minors, it means you don't care about this game.

 

''You mad at somebody? I don't blame you, either. This kid threw the ball well enough to be on the ballclub.''

 

Maybe I'm overanalyzing, but I get the impression that maybe Ozzie wanted Logan on the team, and he was overridden (I assume by Kenny) to take Sisco instead. If that's the case, you've got KW putting Sisco (boo) and Anderson (yay) on the team, over Ozzie's preferences.

 

I think Kenny is one of the best GM's in the game, but I do wonder if sometimes he is a little too interested in showing the world his trades were good. Which is weird because I think the Sisco trade WAS good, even if Sisco is in AAA this year. And I still think the Chris Young trade was good, even though Anderson struggled last year. Why rush Sisco? I doubt KW's job is in immediate jeopardy. I just don't see the logic there.

[RME JICO]

Looking at some Ozzie quotes in today's Sun Times, regarding Logan's demotion...

 

Maybe I'm overanalyzing, but I get the impression that maybe Ozzie wanted Logan on the team, and he was overridden (I assume by Kenny) to take Sisco instead. If that's the case, you've got KW putting Sisco (boo) and Anderson (yay) on the team, over Ozzie's preferences.

 

I think Kenny is one of the best GM's in the game, but I do wonder if sometimes he is a little too interested in showing the world his trades were good. Which is weird because I think the Sisco trade WAS good, even if Sisco is in AAA this year. And I still think the Chris Young trade was good, even though Anderson struggled last year. Why rush Sisco? I doubt KW's job is in immediate jeopardy. I just don't see the logic there.

For Logan, I think it came down to him or Sisco, and since Sisco already had two seasons in the bigs, that may have been the determining factor (options and service time).

[southsider2k5]

Looking at some Ozzie quotes in today's Sun Times, regarding Logan's demotion...

 

 

 

Maybe I'm overanalyzing, but I get the impression that maybe Ozzie wanted Logan on the team, and he was overridden (I assume by Kenny) to take Sisco instead. If that's the case, you've got KW putting Sisco (boo) and Anderson (yay) on the team, over Ozzie's preferences.

 

I think Kenny is one of the best GM's in the game, but I do wonder if sometimes he is a little too interested in showing the world his trades were good. Which is weird because I think the Sisco trade WAS good, even if Sisco is in AAA this year. And I still think the Chris Young trade was good, even though Anderson struggled last year. Why rush Sisco? I doubt KW's job is in immediate jeopardy. I just don't see the logic there.

 

I said this earlier in the thread. Kenny got what Kenny wanted in the 25 man roster. I can't think of a spot where Ozzie won out.

 

I hate to say this because I don't like the choices that were made, but I guess I have to give Kenny the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

[witesoxfan]

Mea culpa, didn't know he already did that last yr.

 

All I can say then is the lights don't come on for Logan when it's MLB games as opposed to ST/AAA and the Sox know it and see it. They obviously went for the experience factor with Sisco. Granted, that experience has translated into being a bad lefty pitcher but my guess is Ozzie will only use him for 1 on 1 matchups than the whole inning.

 

They can tell he can't handle the majors after 17 innings pitched? Even with pretty good stuff? I don't believe that, and I never will.

 

I said this earlier in the thread. Kenny got what Kenny wanted in the 25 man roster. I can't think of a spot where Ozzie won out.

 

I hate to say this because I don't like the choices that were made, but I guess I have to give Kenny the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

 

And I think you are right. In CF and the 5th starter, he can't lose. He got Anderson on the roster over Terrero, and Sisco over Logan. It's a bit ridiculous to be honest.

[Balta1701]

And I think you are right. In CF and the 5th starter, he can't lose. He got Anderson on the roster over Terrero, and Sisco over Logan. It's a bit ridiculous to be honest.

At least one of those was the right choice.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

I seem to remember a thread before spring training started about how many soxtalkers loved the "power" arms in the bullpen. I responded with something along the lines about youth and inconsistency and wanting a "proven" arm or 2. Of course I was quickly rebuffed by the people who think this is fantasy baseball where K's count more than being a good pitcher. And of course most relievers are wildly inconsistently from year to year anyway so what good are proven bullpen arms ? This is what you get when you put a bunch of young arms out there. It will be a revolving door between the minors and majors.

 

By the end of the year the ads we see now about having 9 more ring fingers will seem like a cruel joke. I want to be wrong so badly but I will stick with my earlier comparisons to the Florida Marlins. Its just a matter of time before Dye, Crede, Thome and Gooch are sent packing for more youth and we're praying for somebody/anybody from the young pitchers we traded for to step up and do something . This team will be Paulie and the Pups. I 'm looking forward to seeing Fields and Sweeney play unless of course we trade them in a desperate attempt to salvage this season.

[Balta1701]

Its just a matter of time before Dye, Crede, Thome and Gooch are sent packing for more youth and we're praying for somebody/anybody from the young pitchers we traded for to step up and do something .

Jim Thome continues to have a full no-trade clause.