From worst to first??

[sircaffey]

It's not the record that people have issues with this spring. It's the fact velocities are down, walks are plentiful, pods and erstad are healthy, etc. that gets people down. You can take some things away from spring training. It's not all meaningless.

[The Critic]

Hey, I hope all the optimists are right, but the won-lost record isn't what has me concerned.

It's the level of play I've seen.

If they're waiting until April 2nd to start making plays and getting guys out, then it's the right move to stink now.

 

All I'm saying is the more I've seen as spring training has gone on, the less I've liked.

We'll see what happens when the bell rings. Maybe they can duplicate 2005. That would be great, obviously.

[infohawk]

I really don't think that the Sox spring record is at all reflective of the talent on the team. That said, I can see a scenario where the Sox struggle a bit in the early going. It's a pretty tough schedule out of the gate. I'm not at all worried about the offense. It should be at the top of the league once again. Everything will hinge on the pitching, particularly the bullpen. It might take the 'pen a little time to establish a rythm, but if they do they will be fairly dominant. Once they fall into their established roles they should really start to perform well. The best thing we can hope for is for the flame throwers in the 'pen to build off of each others success. I hope each member develops an "I'm not going to be the weak link" mindset.

[Kalapse]

The record has nothing to do with it for a lot of us. I honestly couldn't tell you what the hell their record is this spring because I really don't care. It has more to do with the personnel decisions being botched, the inability to fill holes this offseason which are being exploited in the Spring, the lack of velocity from the pitching staff and an injury to a key player.

 

I don't see how any of these things can be written off as "it's only spring training, none of this matters."

 

Now, I wrote this without reading any of the initial posts and only a few near the backend of the thread so this is probably offbase a bit.

[CanOfCorn]

My question to you is...how do you know that the personnel decisions are botched? I mean, what if Pods is his 2005 first-half self before he got injured? What if Erstad turns out to be like Jermaine Dye and rebounds well? What if Jenks just needed to work some kinks out? What if Sisco and Aardsma are better served staying in the bigs working with Cooper? There are always lots of "ifs" coming out of ST for every team and no one knows over a 162 game season how it's going to turn out. Remember the great first half the Royals had a couple of years ago? They were media darlings...can they keep it up? Look at their young players stepping up! And then they faltered and kinda fell back to earth. Anything can happen and we shouldn't judge a team until the end of the season. Last year was the most disappointing 90 win season in a long time...they had a good year...probably a B- and I can say that because that's what HAPPENED. None of us know what's going to happen starting Monday, so let's just lay off.

 

Of course we can say that we don't like what we've seen in Spring Training. I just think that we should all save our energy for the regular season, when the games matter and not blow our wad on games against minor-leaguers in Arizona. JMHO.

[Kalapse]

My question to you is...how do you know that the personnel decisions are botched? I mean, what if Pods is his 2005 first-half self before he got injured? What if Erstad turns out to be like Jermaine Dye and rebounds well? What if Jenks just needed to work some kinks out? What if Sisco and Aardsma are better served staying in the bigs working with Cooper? There are always lots of "ifs" coming out of ST for every team and no one knows over a 162 game season how it's going to turn out. Remember the great first half the Royals had a couple of years ago? They were media darlings...can they keep it up? Look at their young players stepping up! And then they faltered and kinda fell back to earth. Anything can happen and we shouldn't judge a team until the end of the season. Last year was the most disappointing 90 win season in a long time...they had a good year...probably a B- and I can say that because that's what HAPPENED. None of us know what's going to happen starting Monday, so let's just lay off.

 

Of course we can say that we don't like what we've seen in Spring Training. I just think that we should all save our energy for the regular season, when the games matter and not blow our wad on games against minor-leaguers in Arizona. JMHO.

I know they were botched because they went against what the manager of the team said near the beginning of spring training. A lot of this is opinion too, IMO a few of the personnel decisions put this team in a worse position to win than they have to be.

 

I don't play the "what if" game, that is a 2 way street and in "what if" world anything is possible no matter how ridiculous it is. So it makes factual discussion impossible.

[elrockinMT]

I don't like what I saw in Spring Training, but I'll tell you how I feel about things overall sometime around October 1st

[Vance Law]

A lot of this is opinion too, IMO a few of the personnel decisions put this team in a worse position to win than they have to be.

 

I assume this refers mainly to CF. I wrote last week and still am not conviced otherwise that, the situation may be being handled in a way to get the most out of Anderson as possible. Bringing in a veteran, making him fight to win the job. All the while touting Erstad publicly. How will Anderson react? Whine and complain? Work his butt harder just like Erstad would? You may not be able to take everything said by Ozzie and Kenny to the media at face value. A week ago, a majority of the people were certain, certain that Anderson would be sent down to AAA. He is on the team. In a position now that he's not looking over his shoulder at a veteran, worrying about messing up. Instead he's hungry to show up and work his butt off and prove himself in every at bat and every game to try to get the starting job. If Erstad breaks his legs, Anderson will have the job. If Erstad is as bad as people fear he'll be, and if Anderson shows anything, he'll have the job. Again, though, this CF spot will not in any way make or break the team that won 90 games last year with Anderson's .225. It will be determined by the pitching.

Edited March 29, 2007 by Vance Law

[Kalapse]

I assume this refers mainly to CF. I wrote last week and still am not conviced otherwise that, the situation may be being handled in a way to get the most out of Anderson as possible. Bringing in a veteran, making him fight to win the job. All the while touting Erstad publicly. How will Anderson react? Whine and complain? Work his butt harder just like Erstad would? You may not be able to take everything said by Ozzie and Kenny to the media at face value. A week ago, a majority of the people were certain, certain that Anderson would be sent down to AAA. He is on the team. In a position now that he's not looking over his shoulder at a veteran, worrying about messing up. Instead he's hungry to show up and work his butt off and prove himself in every at bat and every game to try to get the starting job. If Erstad breaks his legs, Anderson will have the job. If Erstad is as bad as people fear he'll be, and if Anderson shows anything, he'll have the job. Again, though, this CF spot will not in any way make or break the team that won 90 games last year with Anderson's .225. It will be determined by the pitching.

Here's a post of mine from yesterday, it's not exactly what you're saying but it's pretty close.

 

So he fed him bulls*** for the whole damn month about still being in the running for a starting job, every damn day going to the media saying if Brian produces in Spring he's my guy and the whole thing was just a ruse to get Brian motivated? That's just ridiculous if true. What did Darin Erstad do during the Spring to earn the starting CF job? Is Ozzie's motto: "Nothing is just handed to you everything is earned" just a crock of s***? Erstad and Podsednik were handed jobs this Spring, neither of them earned it.

 

And to say "he saw something in Erstad that he didn't see in Anderson" or anything along those lines is such a cop out. He could say that at any time to justify any asinine decision he chooses to make. "I've decided to go with Alex Cintron as my secondbaseman, I just saw something in his this Spring that I did not see in Tadahito." You as a fan can not question that, he is immune to criticism because you're not out there on the practice fields every day watching these guys play, if he says he saw something in Cintron that makes him a better candidate to start over Iguchi then who are you to question him. What if Ozzie had used this logic in choosing Floyd over Danks for the 5th spot? "Floyd just showed me something that Danks didn't" Would that be acceptable?

 

At a certain point lying to motivate a player becomes too much and the word of Ozzie as a man comes into question, how can you EVER believe anything he says? He could have some ulterior motives behind the things he says. What about Brian in all of this? He did everything asked of him this spring and beat out the competition yet despite meeting the objectives of his manager and being rewarded accordingly he's told "Sorry kid, you never really had a shot" or "Not good enough". Seems pretty slimy to me.

You may not be able to take everything Ozzie says for face value but when he starts to go back on every proclamation he makes, I don't know why I should take him seriously anymore. I'm not convinced Erstad will be benched if he wets the bed, 2006 says otherwise and that sentence didn't just apply to Anderson it also goes for the bullpen, it seemed like Logan earned a spot to me.

 

If the centerfielder is not going to make or break the team then what's the harm in giving the job to the guy who earned it during the spring and sending the other guy to the bench? And as of yesterday Ozzie said he didn't want Anderson on his team, period. He wanted him him AAA but was forced to keep him on the roster seemingly by someone higher up.

[RME JICO]

White Sox ST Records

2007 - 9-21 > ???

2006 - 10-19 > 90-72

2005 - 14-18 > 99-63

2004 - 15-13 > 83-79

2003 - 17-13 > 86-76

2002 - 11-21 > 81-81

 

Here is a older article that is pretty interesting in regards to ST records: http://espn.go.com/mlb/columns/bp/1518849.html

[Vance Law]

Good post above, Kalapse, and I agree with a lot of what you say. I definitely prefer Anderson out there and Guillen certainly can be frustrating. Anderson has better numbers in ST, though I doubt Guillen keeps daily tabs on OPS, but with such a small sample size, that difference amounts to like home run and a few walks for Anderson, with Guillen clearly tipping anything close in favor of the veteran. Regardless of Guillen's ass-hattery, I honestly think this may make Anderson play better. He'll play. Anderson having to win the job while at the major league level (he hit well last ST too)at age 24 is not that insane. If Erstad is a bad as feared he'll be out. And if not, I'll join the complaint then.

[VAfan]

I don't know about that.

I mean, are the Sox the only team in baseball where management sends a message

like this to players?

I mean the season is so long ... do you really think 2 seasons after the parade

all the veterans are going to not care about winning?

I mean April, May, June, July, August, Sept., they want to be ridiculed in the press

and booed on the field??

I doubt it.

We may suck but it won't be for not caring I feel.

Hopefully Oz and KW will ship guys to the minors if they have the attitude you suggest.

Konerko will not loaf; our starters aren't primma donnas. They may get rocked but

they will try.

Why would Dye brood? He's been great in Chicago and won't want to falter.

Iguchi? Why would he brood?

I think your argument is lame personally.

 

 

I didn't say brood, or even perform horribly. But they'll be playing for themselves and their own stats and not really for the White Sox because their allegiance to this franchise isn't going to last. Most see themselves gone, if not next year, then the year after. It's a subtle difference, but over a long season, it could easily cost us a lot of games.

 

We didn't have the best talent in baseball in 2005. But no one played better as a TEAM. That was what was so magical about that squad. It's why we had such a fabulous record in 1-run games. We did whatever it took to grind out those wins. Lose a little of that edge and drop down to .500 in the close games and we are no longer a playoff game, just like last year.

 

BTW -- Let me add here I agree with Kalapse. I think Ozzie has moved from being a positive influence to being dangerously close to killing our chances. Last year it was his stubborn refusal to yank Vazquez after 5 innings, despite his losing something like 9 games in the sixth, including crucial games down the stretch to division rivals. Does anyone realize that the last game Vazquez won on the season was against the Yankees? It was also the ONLY game on the year Ozzie yanked JV after 5 and gave the ball to McCarthy. This year, we've got Darren Erstad, the new version of Timo Perez. It could be hard to watch ...

 

But, enough of my pessimism. Opening day is almost year, so ....

 

GO WHITE SOX!!! 2007 AL CENTRAL CHAMPS!!!!

Edited March 31, 2007 by VAfan

[greg775]

ut they'll be playing for themselves and their own stats and not really for the White Sox because their allegiance to this franchise isn't going to last. Most see themselves gone, if not next year, then the year after. It's a subtle difference, but over a long season, it could easily cost us a lot of games.

 

Maybe.

I just don't see, it, though.

Really, the Rowand trade proved no player is safe on a team, anyway.

So really any player on any team should be concerned about his future with any individual franchise.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but I don't see this being an issue with as many vets as the Sox have.

 

For some reason, I am trusting Oz to have learned some things and I have a sneaky feeling we'll be

complaining about his using too many players this year than having one set lineup.

He's going to be platooning a lot to combat this problem of the Sox lineup against tough lefties.

I also can't see him going with Vaz as long as he did last year. I would think he'll make the mistake of

leaving him in too long once, then it'll be 5 2/3 inning Vaz.

Edited March 31, 2007 by greg775