Guillen Not Worried About Sox's Spring...

[The Ginger Kid]

Guillen not worried about White Sox's spring

 

By Dave van Dyck

Tribune staff reporter

Published March 29, 2007, 11:16 PM CDT

 

HOOVER, Ala. -- What does it mean that the White Sox finished the Cactus League portion of spring training with a baseball-worst 9-21-2 record?

 

"I didn't even know what the record was," general manager Ken Williams said. "Whatever the results are, the results are."

 

What does it mean that the Sox's pitching staff finished Cactus League play with a baseball-worst earned-run average of 6.88?

 

"I was worried about our starting rotation, then all of a sudden it started getting better the last two weeks," manager Ozzie Guillen said. "The velocity was back and throwing strikes was back. I relaxed a little bit."

 

Williams and Guillen relaxed Thursday outside Birmingham, Ala., where the Sox beat their Double-A farm team 5-4, knowing they were done in the desert.

 

For what it's worth, the White Sox were 8-19-2 in 2006 Cactus League play before winning two straight games in Atlanta as a prelude to the regular season. They again play two games in Atlanta before opening at home Monday against Cleveland.

 

In 2005, the Sox were 14-18 before winning 98 games and the World Series.

 

So for the previous two springs the Sox were 22-37 in Arizona, but 188-136 during the regular season.

 

"[Judging] the record is hard in Tucson," Guillen said. "I just go by how we play, who was on the field when we lose. I love to play the kids. I want to see how they play, what kind of pitchers we have."

 

So Guillen discards the team results and look at the individual results. What did he see?

 

"The way we played, the way we executed in spring training I was pretty happy with," Guillen said Thursday. "Execution, the little things we're supposed to do, it was there.

 

"We made a commitment to move runners over, hit-and-run, squeeze bunt, but meanwhile, it was ugly, ugly, weird weather in Tucson. It was hard for us to judge [pitchers]."

 

Ah, the pitchers.

 

Statistics were not pretty.

 

Opening Day starter Jose Contreras was 0-2 with a 5.09 ERA compared with a 3.07 the spring before. No. 2 Jon Garland had a 7.66 ERA compared with 4.86 a year ago, Mark Buehrle 9.00 compared with 3.72 and Javier Vazquez 8.85 compared with 4.05.

 

"I don't judge them against anything," pitching coach Don Cooper said. "That's the worst place to pitch. You don't want to evaluate people out there. [statistics] are not important.

 

"The only things that are important are innings, pitches and health. We have all three, so here we come. All [spring stats] are thrown out."

 

Again, for what it's worth, the Sox this spring would be 11 games behind the Detroit Tigers, who train in Florida, where all team ERAs are lower.

 

Does it mean something or nothing? For the White Sox, it probably means less than it might for other teams.

 

They do play minor-leaguers extensively, including the last two weeks. And, as Guillen has stressed all spring, this is a very veteran team that knows how to get itself ready, what the pace of spring should be, when to get work done.

 

One thing the record doesn't change is the way Guillen and Williams look at their team three days before the opener.

 

"I think we can win 90 to 100 ballgames," Williams said.

 

"We can win more than 90," Guillen said. "I'm not going make people optimistic [for no reason]. If I see that we struggle and we are going to have a lot of problems, I would say so."

 

Would you really?

 

"Yes, and you know why?" Guillen said. "Because if I said this team is pretty good and they turn out bad, then I would get myself in trouble."

 

could've sworn they won 99 games in '05

Edited March 30, 2007 by The Ginger Kid

[Flash Tizzle]

could've sworn they won 99 games in '05

They did. Someone screwed up in the fact checking department.

[jackie hayes]

After meeting with Ozzie, he felt so relaxed he didn't want to be bothered with fact-checking.

[Gene Honda Civic]

In another article I just read, Razor Shines was named as B'hams manager "the last two seasons"

[ScottyDo]

I would say that's a fairly good analysis of what spring training is and how much the numbers mean. Our key hitters had good springs so offensively I'm not worried about much. I'm actually not that worried about most of our pitchers either, with the notable exception of Buehrle. He's shown next to no improvement, he's still keeping the ball up and over the middle of the plate every 4th pitch or so. You can do that if you're the Randy Johnson of old, but when your fastball barely tops off at 90, you're gonna get spanked every time. Keep it DOOOOWN Buehrle!

[Chisoxfn]

I would say that's a fairly good analysis of what spring training is and how much the numbers mean. Our key hitters had good springs so offensively I'm not worried about much. I'm actually not that worried about most of our pitchers either, with the notable exception of Buehrle. He's shown next to no improvement, he's still keeping the ball up and over the middle of the plate every 4th pitch or so. You can do that if you're the Randy Johnson of old, but when your fastball barely tops off at 90, you're gonna get spanked every time. Keep it DOOOOWN Buehrle!

I'm actually most concerned with Jose Contreras because I think he's the guy that is our ace and if he's healthy he'll be that but I don't know if he'll ever be healthy again (100% healthy). But I guess we will see. It sounds like his stuff has been there all spring, but he seemed to lose his command a bit due to his nagging injuries last season.

 

As far as Mark goes, his velocity is back up and he's in very good shape. He's earned the benefit of the doubt to me and I think he'll have an excellent year. All in all I may be crazy and I'll be the first to admit I don't put much anything into spring training (except for the performances of young players and health) but I'm really not that concerned.

 

I'm most concerned with the team staying healthy and some of our young pitchers in the pen living up to there potential (because I'm pretty sure we'll have some injuries in the pen and some of those high talented arms will end up flaming out or not panning out).

[DBAHO]

I'm most concerned with the team staying healthy and some of our young pitchers in the pen living up to there potential (because I'm pretty sure we'll have some injuries in the pen and some of those high talented arms will end up flaming out or not panning out).

I think at least now we've got a little more depth in the pen, with Logan in the minors, so even if there's an injury or 2 although it will hurt, we are better equipped for it than last year.

 

That said, it might be worth having a look at a couple of cut relievers to stash down in AAA for insurance sakes.

[beck72]

The biggest thing the sox have going for them is health. And a big reason for optimism coming out of a horrible looking spring training. Outside of Hall, the sox have been healthy. Esp. the pitchers. And the sox still have decent options in case of injury as well. A lot of other teams have injuries coming out of spring. Look at the Yanks who have to have Pavano as their opening day SP.

[Dick Allen]

Just a couple of days ago, Ozzie was concerned talking about how you can't just flip on a switch. Now he says the pitchers have looked good the past 2 weeks. The other puzzling thing to me is Cooper says you can't evaluate pitchers in Arizona. If that's the case why were the White Sox holding auditions for the 5th starter slot there this year, and for the bullpen with all those minor league busts last season? And if its so tough to pitch there, why is a guy who went through the entire spring unscathed opening the season in Charlotte? I am looking forward to the White Sox being 0-0 again, but nothing KW or Ozzie say will get me to stop worrying about the pitching.

[heirdog]

I will be most worried if Garland gets off to a slow start. He historically (last couple of seasons) starts strong, hits a lull and then finishes pretty strong so it will be interesting to see how he starts given that he is now pitching in the 2nd slot of the rotation as opposed to the back-end.

 

Buehrle has always been fairly consistent in terms of results at the end of the year and never had electric stuff so I think he will do fine this year (some unbelievable games, some where he gets rocked and some in between...yeah not too consistent but in the end he regresses to the mean or just above it).

 

Contreras has to stay healthy, which I think he can do to the tune of 180-200 innings and Vasquez is the wild card. With an improved bullpen, maybe some 5 inning outings will get him 18 wins...so he avoids that dreaded third time around a line-up.

 

Danks is the question mark...I have a good feeling about him and think he will end up doing pretty well. Floyd et al in AAA will be insurance for an injury to one of the older guys in my opinion.

[GoSox05]

If we go by spring records than I'm guessig the Rockies will win the World Series with no problem.

[Harry Chappas]

If Tucson is so bad why are they staying in AZ? Why not move to Florida does it make sense to stay there if the conditions are not conducive to a successful spring training?

[RME JICO]

If Tucson is so bad why are they staying in AZ? Why not move to Florida does it make sense to stay there if the conditions are not conducive to a successful spring training?

They used to be in Sarasota, but moved to ARZ. I think that is why they are trying to move north where the conditions are a little better.

[LVSoxFan]

Can I offer an alternative theory here? I wonder if the pitchers (not those vying for spots) were laying off a bit. Last year they came roaring out of 2005 and everybody tanked out second half. Maybe there is some conscious/unconscious thought behind all of this.

[Dick Allen]

If Tucson is so bad why are they staying in AZ? Why not move to Florida does it make sense to stay there if the conditions are not conducive to a successful spring training?

JR lives in the Phoenix area in the winter. They have great facilities and they have a better $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ situation in AZ. The have also won more championships training in AZ than they have training in FL. I just don't understand if they claim they really can't evaluate there, why they set themselves up to have to evaluate there. I'm sorry KW fell in love with Floyd based a lot on his performance in the ARIZONA Fall League. Now he uses Arizona as an excuse for Floyd's failing. If its because of AZ that he blew this spring, why isn't he with the team? Maybe KW is trying to show confidence in Floyd, but the fact that he's in Charlotte shows that not all of his problems are AZ-related, as much as KW would like you to believe it.

[jphat007]

JR lives in the Phoenix area in the winter. They have great facilities and they have a better $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ situation in AZ. The have also won more championships training in AZ than they have training in FL. I just don't understand if they claim they really can't evaluate there, why they set themselves up to have to evaluate there. I'm sorry KW fell in love with Floyd based a lot on his performance in the ARIZONA Fall League. Now he uses Arizona as an excuse for Floyd's failing. If its because of AZ that he blew this spring, why isn't he with the team? Maybe KW is trying to show confidence in Floyd, but the fact that he's in Charlotte shows that not all of his problems are AZ-related, as much as KW would like you to believe it.

 

I'm not seeing that anywhere in the story. Is there another article out there I missed?

[Harry Chappas]

Anyone wonder why Guillen even goes to spring training. The Sun-Times had a story about how he, Dye, Konerko and Thome were trying to determine the line-up as they are not sure it is a good idea to bat three lefties in succession.

 

What is going on, that is what spring training is for.....

Edited March 30, 2007 by Jenks Heat

[AbeFroman]

As much as I like the town of Tucson, I feel like its really a hinderance to the team to play spring there.

 

Every year, I always find myself saying: wait till they don't have to pitch in Coors Light.

 

Its not an excuse, but I do think its a relevant consideration...

[Dick Allen]

I'm not seeing that anywhere in the story. Is there another article out there I missed?

Yes. Just find any article that has KW talking about Floyd this spring. Its almost laughable the excuses he has for him.

[Rowand44]

Yes. Just find any article that has KW talking about Floyd this spring. Its almost laughable the excuses he has for him.

So let him make excuses. Maybe he doesn't want to make Gavin think the organization has already given up on him after one spring training.

[Dick Allen]

So let him make excuses. Maybe he doesn't want to make Gavin think the organization has already given up on him after one spring training.

That may be exactly what he's trying to do. Although I would say if Floyd is that fragile, its a longshot he's ever successful in the major leagues.

[Balta1701]

I'm not seeing that anywhere in the story. Is there another article out there I missed?

It's hardly a secret that general manager Ken Williams fully expected Gavin Floyd to break camp as the White Sox's fifth starter.

 

After all, Floyd was the centerpiece of the trade that sent Freddy Garcia to Philadelphia.

 

 

But John Danks outpitched Floyd.

 

"Gavin pitched better than his numbers indicated," Williams said. "Obviously the stuff is there, and you could see a little bit more confidence as the spring wore on and a little bit more comfort with his surroundings.

 

"I anticipated him winning the fifth spot, but I also remembered what I told John Danks the day I traded for him. I said nobody has been promised anything; it's best man wins."

 

Was Floyd perhaps not as good as Williams had thought after watching him extensively in the Arizona Fall League?

 

"Actually, he is as good as we thought he would be," Williams said. "Remember, [the stats were] in Tucson. He'll be fine. He'll be part of where we're headed. But where we are right now is in winning mode and taking players most ready to help."

Linkity, this mornin'.

[ScottyDo]

Just a couple of days ago, Ozzie was concerned talking about how you can't just flip on a switch. Now he says the pitchers have looked good the past 2 weeks. The other puzzling thing to me is Cooper says you can't evaluate pitchers in Arizona. If that's the case why were the White Sox holding auditions for the 5th starter slot there this year, and for the bullpen with all those minor league busts last season? And if its so tough to pitch there, why is a guy who went through the entire spring unscathed opening the season in Charlotte? I am looking forward to the White Sox being 0-0 again, but nothing KW or Ozzie say will get me to stop worrying about the pitching.

 

Where else are they supposed to hold auditions?

 

JR lives in the Phoenix area in the winter. They have great facilities and they have a better $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ situation in AZ. The have also won more championships training in AZ than they have training in FL. I just don't understand if they claim they really can't evaluate there, why they set themselves up to have to evaluate there. I'm sorry KW fell in love with Floyd based a lot on his performance in the ARIZONA Fall League. Now he uses Arizona as an excuse for Floyd's failing. If its because of AZ that he blew this spring, why isn't he with the team? Maybe KW is trying to show confidence in Floyd, but the fact that he's in Charlotte shows that not all of his problems are AZ-related, as much as KW would like you to believe it.

 

Yeah, that's all fine but Floyd IS on the AAA team so clearly KW's biases didn't get in the way. If they made the right choice in the end, what's the problem?

[jackie hayes]

After all, Floyd was the centerpiece of the trade that sent Freddy Garcia to Philadelphia.

Since when does "centerpiece" = "throw in"?

[WCSox]

Just a couple of days ago, Ozzie was concerned talking about how you can't just flip on a switch. Now he says the pitchers have looked good the past 2 weeks.

 

Two words: damage control

 

The other puzzling thing to me is Cooper says you can't evaluate pitchers in Arizona. If that's the case why were the White Sox holding auditions for the 5th starter slot there this year, and for the bullpen with all those minor league busts last season? And if its so tough to pitch there, why is a guy who went through the entire spring unscathed opening the season in Charlotte? I am looking forward to the White Sox being 0-0 again, but nothing KW or Ozzie say will get me to stop worrying about the pitching.

 

I wouldn't say that I'm "worried", but I'm not feeling incredibly optimistic about this bunch right now.