Abolish bilingual education, Gingrich urges

[BigSqwert]

From CNN.com (LINK):

 

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich equated bilingual education Saturday with "the language of living in a ghetto" and mocked requirements that ballots be printed in multiple languages.

 

"The government should quit mandating that various documents be printed in any one of 700 languages depending on who randomly shows up" to vote, said Gingrich, who is considering seeking the Republican presidential nomination in 2008. He made the comments in a speech to the National Federation of Republican Women.

 

"The American people believe English should be the official language of the government. ... We should replace bilingual education with immersion in English so people learn the common language of the country and they learn the language of prosperity, not the language of living in a ghetto," Gingrich said to cheers from the crowd of more than 100.

 

"Citizenship requires passing a test on American history in English. If that's true, then we do not have to create ballots in any language except English," he said.

 

Peter Zamora, co-chair of the Washington-based Hispanic Education Coalition, which supports bilingual education, said, "The tone of his comments were very hateful. Spanish is spoken by many individuals who do not live in the ghetto."

 

He said research has shown "that bilingual education is the best method of teaching English to non-English speakers."

 

Spanish-speakers, Zamora said, know they need to learn English.

 

"There's no resistance to learning English, really, among immigrants, among native-born citizens," he said. "Everyone wants to learn English because it's what you need to thrive in this country."

 

In the past, Gingrich has supported making English the nation's official language. He's also said all American children should learn English and that other languages should be secondary in schools.

 

In 1995, for example, he said bilingualism poses "long-term dangers to the fabric of our nation" and that "allowing bilingualism to continue to grow is very dangerous."

 

Bilingual programs teach students reading, arithmetic and other basic skills in their native language so they do not fall behind while mastering English.

 

On voting, federal law requires districts with large populations of non-English speakers to print ballots in multiple languages.

[Gregory Pratt]

Guess McCain isn't the only Pander Bear in this race

 

[kapkomet]

Gingrich said to cheers from the crowd of more than 100.

 

Ohhhh the masses showed up for this speech, I see.

[NorthSideSox72]

I actually tend to agree with him on this, though I think my reasoning is different.

 

That said, I do believe that children in this country should be exposed to, and learn to speak, some foreign languages. I just believe that they also need to all be fluent in English.

[Texsox]

It should be noted that many Hispanic educators agree with him. What needs to be split somehow is the real needs of immigrant children and the anti-Hispanic racism that exists. It is difficult to find consensus in that climate.

[Gregory Pratt]

I'm sure many "Hispanics agree with him." I doubt it's anywhere near a majority. And I know plenty of white people who think bilingual education works. As far as I know -- and I don't know firsthand, as I'm fluent in both languages and have been since I was about three -- bilingual education doesn't mean "we teach you everything in Spanish because we figure you can't learn English." It's Dora the Explorer for awhile, and that's not so bad.

 

The thing that bothers me about what Gingrich says is it's all meant to appeal to the worst type of person.

 

That is to say, I'm not assailing your character Tex (on this) or anyone here's, specifically. I'm assailing the people who hear, "THE LANGUAGE OF A GHETTO!" and go, "Beaner!" and things of that sort. He's clearly trying to appeal to the worst xenophobes at the lower level of the Republican Primary.

 

Screw him. He doesn't have a chance of winning a damn thing. I'll bet he's running because campaigning = money, win or lose, if you do it right.

 

Ohhhh the masses showed up for this speech, I see.

 

I'm going to borrow that. I'll attribute it to my friend Kap on my political blog. It's a great line.

[EvilMonkey]

It should be noted that many Hispanic educators agree with him. What needs to be split somehow is the real needs of immigrant children and the anti-Hispanic racism that exists. It is difficult to find consensus in that climate.

Tex, it may be getting a bit chilly in hell today, I agree with you on this. I worry about the kids next door to me and their ability to compete in this world. I have been in my current house for 2 years now, and the only word in English I have heard the parents say is 'Hi'. As for the kids, they are about 5 or 6, and I have not yet heard them say ANYTHING in english, and neither have my 2 boys, who won't play with them because they can't understand them.

[NorthSideSox72]

Tex, it may be getting a bit chilly in hell today, I agree with you on this. I worry about the kids next door to me and their ability to compete in this world. I have been in my current house for 2 years now, and the only word in English I have heard the parents say is 'Hi'. As for the kids, they are about 5 or 6, and I have not yet heard them say ANYTHING in english, and neither have my 2 boys, who won't play with them because they can't understand them.

Which is why kids who aren't English-speaking should be offered crash immersion courses in English early-on. That's a much better alternative than trying to run an entire public school in two languages.

[Texsox]

The reason that bilingual caught any momentum is the kids fall behind in every other subject as they attempt to master English. I've yet to see a method that allows the kids to remain on grade level in social studies, math, science, etc. and not receive that instruction in Spanish.

 

What I think we need are more after school programs to offer tutoring, in native languages, in the other subjects. It will take more of an effort to keep the kids on track, but if we make it a priority, it can happen. And, btw, being bilingual is a nice advantage in a world economy.

[NorthSideSox72]

The reason that bilingual caught any momentum is the kids fall behind in every other subject as they attempt to master English. I've yet to see a method that allows the kids to remain on grade level in social studies, math, science, etc. and not receive that instruction in Spanish.

 

What I think we need are more after school programs to offer tutoring, in native languages, in the other subjects. It will take more of an effort to keep the kids on track, but if we make it a priority, it can happen. And, btw, being bilingual is a nice advantage in a world economy.

Which gets at another problem in our schools - social promotion. I think its time we accept that just ushering all children from year to year at the same pace of learning is not effective. As it relates to ESL students, they can start with a crash course in English, then slowly back that off as they get better, and start slowly putting them into other classes.

[Texsox]

Which gets at another problem in our schools - social promotion. I think its time we accept that just ushering all children from year to year at the same pace of learning is not effective. As it relates to ESL students, they can start with a crash course in English, then slowly back that off as they get better, and start slowly putting them into other classes.

 

I think the focus shouuld be on assuring that the kids do not get left behind. Having mixed age classrooms can be distracting to the other students.

[NorthSideSox72]

I think the focus shouuld be on assuring that the kids do not get left behind. Having mixed age classrooms can be distracting to the other students.

I strongly disagree. These kids will need to socialize with a continuous flow of people in their lives from all different age groups and backgrounds. School should be no different. The social learning aspect of school is of course of great importance - but that isn't a reason for social promotion. In fact, I'd say its an argument against it in some ways. Kids will still have a number of other kids around them most of the time (because in most classes, the age bad will still be pretty narrow), and most of them will move at similar paces, so there is still the chance for lifelong bonds to form. But they will also get some younger, and older, kids in different classes. I think that's a big positive.

[Texsox]

I strongly disagree. These kids will need to socialize with a continuous flow of people in their lives from all different age groups and backgrounds. School should be no different. The social learning aspect of school is of course of great importance - but that isn't a reason for social promotion. In fact, I'd say its an argument against it in some ways. Kids will still have a number of other kids around them most of the time (because in most classes, the age bad will still be pretty narrow), and most of them will move at similar paces, so there is still the chance for lifelong bonds to form. But they will also get some younger, and older, kids in different classes. I think that's a big positive.

 

Having thirteen and fourteen year olds in a 6th grade classroom is not good. There are ages and stages that kids go through and that mix is a nightmare for educators. There are many child protection issues at play here. Even things like physical education and play time at recess become issues. After school programs to help kids stay on track should be emphasized to minimize these issues.

[NorthSideSox72]

Having thirteen and fourteen year olds in a 6th grade classroom is not good. There are ages and stages that kids go through and that mix is a nightmare for educators. There are many child protection issues at play here. Even things like physical education and play time at recess become issues. After school programs to help kids stay on track should be emphasized to minimize these issues.

I agree that there are certain age straddles that won't work. You can't have a remedial 17-year old in with the third graders. For those on the extremes, there need to be some remedial classes. But that's a small number. Most kids will naturally progress in a small band, with most kids being only a year or two different in some areas (and less in others) than their peers, even up to high school age. We shouldn't make the rules based on the exceptions to them.

 

For phys ed, like any classes, different kids move at different paces. In fact, I think P.E. is one of the classes most in need of NOT being socially promoted, especially when you get to junior high and early high school, when there is a huge physical discrepancy in the development of kids the same age.

[Texsox]

I agree that there are certain age straddles that won't work. You can't have a remedial 17-year old in with the third graders. For those on the extremes, there need to be some remedial classes. But that's a small number. Most kids will naturally progress in a small band, with most kids being only a year or two different in some areas (and less in others) than their peers, even up to high school age. We shouldn't make the rules based on the exceptions to them.

 

For phys ed, like any classes, different kids move at different paces. In fact, I think P.E. is one of the classes most in need of NOT being socially promoted, especially when you get to junior high and early high school, when there is a huge physical discrepancy in the development of kids the same age.

 

Most sixth graders are 11, so 13 or 14 would be fairly common without a push to keep the kids on grade level. What happens a lot is kids miss years when their parents are following work. I agree that social promotion is full of problems and needs to be carefully used. Which is why I believe programs need to be developed if we drop bilingual education.

 

Interesting point on PE.

[SuperSteve]

Ohhhh the masses showed up for this speech, I see.

That could actually be an okay number. I interned for Senator Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) last semester, and not for her, but I went to so many rallies where we would have loved 100 people. Even big names don't draw a million people. A group of Gov. Jennifer Granholm (D-MI), Stabenow, and headlined by Obama drew probably around 200-300 people (def no more than 500) in Detroit at one of the unions (forget which one) leading up to the election, which was hugely debated in Michigan. We drew probably 300 for Stabenow, Granholm, and a slew of others at the opening of the Genesee County Correlated Office. Both went on to win fairly nicely.

 

It'd be different if he declared his nomination to the presidency, but I wonder with the rally. I know I'm generalizing, but a lot of rallies arn't as big as people think. Just an observation,

 

Oh, and I disagree with making English the official language. One question I have is it a requirement for the citizenship exam to be in english? I find it hard to believe people cannot understand ballots enough to vote, but theres always goina be someone who thinks english english english, and someone who says let anyone eligable have a fair shot.

 

I'd rather have someone get the chance to vote in Spanish for who they truely want if they can't distinguish the english.

[Texsox]

Isn't it interesting that as Sox fans, we aren't clammering to make English the official language of the team? If accepting any player who can make a contribution regardless of language, strengthens the team, wouldn't that also work for most businesses and then our country?

 

Just tossing that out.

[Balta1701]

COLMES: You spoke over the weekend to the National Federation of Republican Women. You’re quoted as having said, The American people believe English should be the official language. And then you went on to say that people should learn the language of the country and not the language of living in a ghetto, referring to Spanish. Is that your definitive comment or was that a misquote? Were you not properly quoted?

 

GINGRICH: Well, that did not refer to Spanish. The point I made was that we ought to have a program of intensive education so that every person who comes to America learns English as rapidly as possible. And I’ve talked to experts who believe that an intensive program, young people could learn to be relatively fluent in four to six months, and older people could learn in a year.

 

COLMES: What do you mean language in the ghetto?

 

GINGRICH: What I meant is very clearly, Alan. I’ll let you pick the right word for me. We should not have a program which traps people into not being able to speak English by failing to teach them the language that is the prominent language of prosperity, the dominant language of government, the dominant language of politics. Now, I’ll let you pick — frankly, ghetto, historically had referred as a Jewish reference originally. I did not mention Hispanics, and I certainly do not want anybody who speaks Spanish to think I’m in any way less than respectful of Spanish or any other language spoken by people who come to the United States.

[southsideirish71]

That could actually be an okay number. I interned for Senator Debbie Stabenow (D-MI) last semester, and not for her, but I went to so many rallies where we would have loved 100 people. Even big names don't draw a million people. A group of Gov. Jennifer Granholm (D-MI), Stabenow, and headlined by Obama drew probably around 200-300 people (def no more than 500) in Detroit at one of the unions (forget which one) leading up to the election, which was hugely debated in Michigan. We drew probably 300 for Stabenow, Granholm, and a slew of others at the opening of the Genesee County Correlated Office. Both went on to win fairly nicely.

 

It'd be different if he declared his nomination to the presidency, but I wonder with the rally. I know I'm generalizing, but a lot of rallies arn't as big as people think. Just an observation,

 

Oh, and I disagree with making English the official language. One question I have is it a requirement for the citizenship exam to be in english? I find it hard to believe people cannot understand ballots enough to vote, but theres always goina be someone who thinks english english english, and someone who says let anyone eligable have a fair shot.

 

I'd rather have someone get the chance to vote in Spanish for who they truely want if they can't distinguish the english.

 

Why not then have a Chinese/Russian/Indian/Farsi/alien language ballot then. Spanish to English is one of the easier transitions and they are in the same family of languages. I have a guy at work that never spoke a work of english, but learned it to get a Visa. He is from Indonesia, and now speaks fluent english. I asked him why he learned it, and he said because he wanted to succeed. So why is it okay for the Chinese/Russians/Polish/and others to come here, and pickup english but because one segment figures that its their birthright to force us to speak their language its a joke. Speak english, you are in America. Make sure your kids speak english if you are having problems. This is how generations of immigrants have assimilated. Come here, learn the language, adapt and then melt in.

[Balta1701]

Why not then have a Chinese/Russian/Indian/Farsi/alien language ballot then.

They do actually make ballots in foreign languages, including chinese (link just for an example). Not sure about the other ones, but wouldn't be surprised at all.

[southsider2k5]

Speak english, you are in America. Make sure your kids speak english if you are having problems. This is how generations of immigrants have assimilated. Come here, learn the language, adapt and then melt in.

 

Well not really. I don't know how I feel about forcing the rest of America to pick up the cost of immigration through higher taxes related to higher costs to service non-English speakers.

 

But I do know that the idea of immigrants coming here and picking up English in 3 easy steps is a complete falsehood historically. Most immigrants tended to settle into areas of like speakers. They did not learn English as a rule. Their kids on the other hand DID learn English and were the ones to assimilate into America. The initial generation immigrants tended to congregate into areas where people already spoke their language, so the pressure to assimilate wasn't really there. If you don't believe me, look at neighborhood maps of older US cities, and tell me how many "Chinatowns", "Greektowns", "Germantowns" etc that you find. The ethnic neighborhoods were huge in the 19th century with the large immigrant waves.

[Kid Gleason]

It's interesting, I deal with a lot of people from around the world. They all know how to speak the English language, and I know only a handful of people within the US (who I deal with) who know anything more than a greeting for another country. These people outside the US usually apologize to me for their broken English.

 

I usually apologize to them for my countries arrogance in believing everybody should speak our language and we shouldn't have to speak theirs.

[Balta1701]

But I do know that the idea of immigrants coming here and picking up English in 3 easy steps is a complete falsehood historically. Most immigrants tended to settle into areas of like speakers. They did not learn English as a rule. Their kids on the other hand DID learn English and were the ones to assimilate into America. The initial generation immigrants tended to congregate into areas where people already spoke their language, so the pressure to assimilate wasn't really there. If you don't believe me, look at neighborhood maps of older US cities, and tell me how many "Chinatowns", "Greektowns", "Germantowns" etc that you find. The ethnic neighborhoods were huge in the 19th century with the large immigrant waves.

Which, interestingly enough, is exactly how it works today as well.

[Texsox]

Well not really. I don't know how I feel about forcing the rest of America to pick up the cost of immigration through higher taxes related to higher costs to service non-English speakers.

 

But I do know that the idea of immigrants coming here and picking up English in 3 easy steps is a complete falsehood historically. Most immigrants tended to settle into areas of like speakers. They did not learn English as a rule. Their kids on the other hand DID learn English and were the ones to assimilate into America. The initial generation immigrants tended to congregate into areas where people already spoke their language, so the pressure to assimilate wasn't really there. If you don't believe me, look at neighborhood maps of older US cities, and tell me how many "Chinatowns", "Greektowns", "Germantowns" etc that you find. The ethnic neighborhoods were huge in the 19th century with the large immigrant waves.

 

Great points. Living in an area that is 85% Hispanic and overwhelming Spanish speaking, I know first hand how easy it is to only speak Spanish here. Every business employees bi-lingual clerks because of all the tourists from Mexico who shop here.

[southsider2k5]

Which, interestingly enough, is exactly how it works today as well.

 

From the history stuff I have read, I'll bet those numbers have at least held pretty true. I'd be willing to bet that more people learn English today when they come over, than they did historically. There is a lot less work to be found for people who aren't "educated" so it forces the issue more than it did historically.