Opening Day: White Sox vs. Indians, 4/2/07 (L)

[LVSoxFan]

Looks like I didn't miss much. Were they hittin' ropes all over the place? Any bad breaks for Jose? Also, how did Masset look? How was the velocity/stuff?

 

Jose looked like he had nothing workin. Everything was grooved. Hell, when the first hit of the game was a homer, we all sort of looked at each other like "Uh oh." Hell I think he threw 54 pitches in the first two innings alone, and I can't remember the last time one of our starters was pulled that early.

 

Nothing to panic about; it was just one of those days.

[Dick Allen]

Looks like I didn't miss much. Were they hittin' ropes all over the place? Any bad breaks for Jose? Also, how did Masset look? How was the velocity/stuff?

Contreras got shelled. They hit him hard. Masset was throwing 92 on the USCF gun, didn't have much control, and was not impressive. Maybe the nerves got to both of them. Maybe they just had bad days. I hope thats it.

[Flash Tizzle]

Contreras got shelled. They hit him hard. Masset was throwing 92 on the USCF gun, didn't have much control, and was not impressive. Maybe the nerves got to both of them. Maybe they just had bad days. I hope thats it.

I don't know what to believe concerning velocity from this afternoon.

 

Comcast had 91-93 on Massett; yet several people viewing Gameday said he was continually 95-96. It was similar for nearly every pitcher on both ballclubs.

 

If Masset is indeed only hitting 92mph, someone definitely screwed up within our scouting department because -- according to Williams -- this guy is a "tick" below Jenks. And I'm sure he meant 97-98 mph Jenks, not 93-94mph Jenks.

Edited April 3, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[fathom]

I don't know what to believe concerning velocity from this afternoon.

 

Comcast had 91-93 on Massett; yet several people viewing Gameday said he was continually 95-96. It was similar for nearly every pitcher on both ballclubs.

 

If Masset is indeed only hitting 92mph, someone definitely screwed up within our scouting department because -- according to Williams -- this guy is a "tick" below Jenks. And I'm sure he meant 97-98 mph Jenks, not 93-94mph Jenks.

 

The person that told me that Masset was never going to be a good major league pitcher said he tops out at 96 mph, but he regularly is at 92-93 mph. According to scouts (just told this 5 minutes ago) who were following Gameday, the guns were a few mph high in nearly every game.

Edited April 3, 2007 by fathom

[LVSoxFan]

The board at the Cell had Contreras around 91-93 most of the time.

[Flash Tizzle]

The person that told me that Masset was never going to be a good major league pitcher said he tops out at 96 mph, but he regularly is at 92-93 mph. According to scouts (just told this 5 minutes ago) who were following Gameday, the guns were a few mph high in nearly every game.

What has worried me about Masset (even though I had never seen him pitch up until Spring Training) is the Rangers probably sold him high off a dominating Mexican League performance. Various sites I browsed after the trade didn't mention anything about a 95-96 mph fastball, as Williams seemed to indicate.

 

Even Stone was gushing over Masset during a segment on the Score, saying a friend of his -- a scout -- told him Sox fans would be very pleased with his tremendous arm.

 

I was just expecting more much out of him. Perhaps he will gain velocity in the upcoming weeks, although I'm not counting on it.

[NorthSideSox72]

I was at the game. A few thoughts on some of what I saw...

 

Contreras' pitches were sometimes 90-92, but also some in the high 80's. And he didn't appear to hit 90 until the end of the very long first inning. He looked weird mechanically - like he didn't know what to do in his wind up. He wandered around the mound a bunch. It looked like he forgot how to pitch - it was really weird. He looked out of rhythm mentally and physically. We almost wondered if he was sick or injured in some way, the way he was pacing around.

 

If one takes away Contreras' performance, the Sox played an otherwise strong game in just about every facet. I hope people don't lose track of that.

 

I have no idea why Ozzie PH'd for Ozuna with Mack in that crucial situation with men on. Ozuna was playing a solid game. I think Ozzie got appendage happy.

[hitlesswonder]

I was just expecting more much out of him. Perhaps he will gain velocity inthe upcoming weeks, although I'm not counting on it.

 

I'll cast my vote as being unimpressed with Masset. He does not have electric stuff, like the Sox said. He has 4 pitches, little control of any of them, and an average fastball for a major leaguer. It was that way in spring training as well. Really, how can you trade for someone and then find out his fastball sits 4 MPH lower than advertised?

[WSoxMatt]

I'll cast my vote as being unimpressed with Masset. He does not have electric stuff, like the Sox said. He has 4 pitches, little control of any of them, and an average fastball for a major leaguer. It was that way in spring training as well. Really, how can you trade for someone and then find out his fastball sits 4 MPH lower than advertised?

 

Chalk it up to nerves...cheesh you people are so down on everyone...Did Razor Shines not impress you today either...How about the new bullpen catcher, we know hes no Man Soo Lee, but does he suck too, did the Sox drop the ball on him, bad scouting

Edited April 3, 2007 by WSoxMatt

[barnes]

He looked weird mechanically - like he didn't know what to do in his wind up. He wandered around the mound a bunch. It looked like he forgot how to pitch - it was really weird. He looked out of rhythm mentally and physically. We almost wondered if he was sick or injured in some way, the way he was pacing around.

 

Yeah, I noticed he even threw to the ground a few feet in front of the catcher's glove several times during his pre-game warm ups-- not even throwing hard... hopefully it was just an off day and he'll bounce back.

[Flash Tizzle]

Chalk it up to nerves...cheesh you people are so down on everyone...Did Razor Shines not impress you today either...How about the new bullpen catcher, we know hes no Man Soo Lee, but does he suck too, did the Sox drop the ball on him, bad scouting

Nerves could explain his control -- but I don't buy nerves for the lack of velocity. Even Boone Logan was throwing his fastball at normal speed last season.

 

The problem here is if Masset is sitting 91-93, he's no different than Sean Tracey. Hardly the outstanding bullpen arm once promised.

 

 

 

Yeah, I noticed he even threw to the ground a few feet in front of the catcher's glove several times during his pre-game warm ups-- not even throwing hard... hopefully it was just an off day and he'll bounce back.

Lollerz at your avatar.

 

Let's hope the observations you and Northside sox made have nothing to due with injury.

 

If it is, we're in trouble.

[whitesoxfan101]

Well, that sucked, gotta get 'em next game. I am concerned that Count's lower back is still an issue though, based on my uneducated opinion of what his motion looked like though.

[Chisoxfn]

Actually, the worst case scenario is that the Sox keep pushing him out to mound. It would probably be better if he just broke down and ended up the DL.

 

I know this will sound like hyperbole, but this was the first time I saw Contreras pitch this year and he looks done. Just like the end of last season, whatever problem he has with leg/back are preventing him from locating, and I've never seen his fastball so hittable. Considering he's upwards of 70 years old, I don't expect much improvement.

 

His contract is going to be an albatross.

Cripes, its one freaking start. Yes it was terrible but he looked healthy this spring showing good velocity and movement on his pitches. I slammed Jose more than anyone last year when he was struggling due to injuries (mainly because half of this board and almost all Sox fans kept calling him an ace just because of the way he started the season while they completely ignored how he tanked after being placed on the DL).

 

However, lets make sure we realize one thing, Jose still has the best stuff of anyone on this staff (Vazquez a close 2nd) and we are going to need him to pitch.

 

Masset was responsible for most of the damage. He, quite frankly, looked almost Boone-esque -- wide eyed and incapable of throwing strikes.

 

Even if the radar gun was slightly off (as several within the thread indicated), Masset hardly looked impressive. Williams better hope either him or Danks fare well this season. If McCarthy pitches better than Danks, it won't be too pretty around here for Williams or his scouting department. They're already on notice in my mind after the seemingly unhealthy fascination with Floyd.

Well since we are busy to write these guys off so fast, maybe we should also write off McCarthy who had an absolutely horrendous spring (he looked terrible in the Rangers spring game I watched in person as well).

 

Come on flash, who are we to evaluate players based on there major league debut. I swear, we won't know too much about this squad till the end of May (unless of course we jump off to some amazing or absolutely horrendous start).

[danman31]

I'm not sure if this has been said before or not, but did anyone else think Contreras looks like Pedro Serrano (Major League) with his new facial hair?

[Chisoxfn]

The person that told me that Masset was never going to be a good major league pitcher said he tops out at 96 mph, but he regularly is at 92-93 mph. According to scouts (just told this 5 minutes ago) who were following Gameday, the guns were a few mph high in nearly every game.

If it makes people feel better, most pitchers velocity is down to start the season. They go through dead arm periods and are still building up arm strenght.

 

There are certain guys that this obviously doesn't effect. John Lackey was barely hitting 89 tonight....Justin Speir was topping out at 90 (he throws in the mid 90's) and Lackey is usually consistent around 93 and than will ocassionally take a bit off or another MPH or 2. In some of the games I caught the final week of spring training a lot of starters velocities were down as well.

[Spiff]

I'm not sure if this has been said before or not, but did anyone else think Contreras looks like Pedro Serrano (Major League) with his new facial hair?

 

I thought he looked like Mo Vaughn, but David Palmer is a good call too.

[Capn12]

Cripes, its one freaking start. Yes it was terrible but he looked healthy this spring showing good velocity and movement on his pitches. I slammed Jose more than anyone last year when he was struggling due to injuries (mainly because half of this board and almost all Sox fans kept calling him an ace just because of the way he started the season while they completely ignored how he tanked after being placed on the DL).

 

However, lets make sure we realize one thing, Jose still has the best stuff of anyone on this staff (Vazquez a close 2nd) and we are going to need him to pitch.

Well since we are busy to write these guys off so fast, maybe we should also write off McCarthy who had an absolutely horrendous spring (he looked terrible in the Rangers spring game I watched in person as well).

 

Come on flash, who are we to evaluate players based on there major league debut. I swear, we won't know too much about this squad till the end of May (unless of course we jump off to some amazing or absolutely horrendous start).

 

 

While I agree its way too early to evaluate/critique guys on one appearance, tell me this Jas....how is it acceptable to have Masset and Aardsma come in with no ability to throw strikes, walk 4 guys in 5 IP, and justify either of them as making this team when the walks were the ONLY reason(besides some Ozzie hate, thats another issue) that Logan got optioned to AAA?

[Chisoxfn]

While I agree its way too early to evaluate/critique guys on one appearance, tell me this Jas....how is it acceptable to have Masset and Aardsma come in with no ability to throw strikes, walk 4 guys in 5 IP, and justify either of them as making this team when the walks were the ONLY reason(besides some Ozzie hate, thats another issue) that Logan got optioned to AAA?

I can't comment on the situation, but lets be honest, both Masset and Aardsma are more capable of throwing multiple innings than Logan. Logan is a reliever, Massett and Aardsma both have some experience throwing longer outings and to go with that with a young 5th starter my guess is the Sox felt it more valuable to carry a couple more guys that can go longer in case we have some starters struggle to go deep in a game.

 

And I have long said our pen is going to have days where no one will throw strikes, I have no doubt about that.

[beautox]

I can't comment on the situation, but lets be honest, both Masset and Aardsma are more capable of throwing multiple innings than Logan. Logan is a reliever, Massett and Aardsma both have some experience throwing longer outings and to go with that with a young 5th starter my guess is the Sox felt it more valuable to carry a couple more guys that can go longer in case we have some starters struggle to go deep in a game.

 

And I have long said our pen is going to have days where no one will throw strikes, I have no doubt about that.

 

I call BS on Logan not being able to go multiple innings.

 

he did it on 05/02/06 2.1 against the tribe with 5k and 1BB, when hes on and not doubting himself hes filthy.

[Flash Tizzle]

Well since we are busy to write these guys off so fast, maybe we should also write off McCarthy who had an absolutely horrendous spring (he looked terrible in the Rangers spring game I watched in person as well).

 

Come on flash, who are we to evaluate players based on there major league debut. I swear, we won't know too much about this squad till the end of May (unless of course we jump off to some amazing or absolutely horrendous start).

I'm not completely writing off Masset. It's quite possible his velocity returns, although -- as I said earlier -- I'm not counting on it.

 

Difference between him and others who have yet to regain velocity is those starters you've mentioned have track records suggesting they'll return to form. What does Masset have? He's only been a reliever for a short period, and his velocity as a starter was high 80's/low 90's. And even if his fastball does improve, are we going to see 95-97 for three inning appearances such as yesterdays?

 

Really, Williams is the one putting himself in this position. I didn't make a comment about Masset possessing "stuff" slightly below Jenks. I didn't suggest both trades were made with 2007 and beyond in mind, only to have Garcia's return produce nothing and McCarthy's produce two pitchers who may not be ready.

[DBAHO]

If anything on Logan, I'm heartened by the fact that Sisco didn't give up a run in 2IP. Sure I think he's better off starting down at Charlotte, but hey let's hope he's successful out of the pen for us.

 

Not the start we all wanted by any means, but hopefully Jose can work his way into some form in the next start. What's important now is we come back these next 2 games and put in a much better effort pitching wise.

 

We don't want that bullpen getting overworked early.

[Flash Tizzle]

I can't comment on the situation, but lets be honest, both Masset and Aardsma are more capable of throwing multiple innings than Logan. Logan is a reliever, Massett and Aardsma both have some experience throwing longer outings and to go with that with a young 5th starter my guess is the Sox felt it more valuable to carry a couple more guys that can go longer in case we have some starters struggle to go deep in a game.

 

And I have long said our pen is going to have days where no one will throw strikes, I have no doubt about that.

Haeger's capable of throwing multiple innings. Why wasn't he chosen?

 

Regardless of his poor spring training statistics, his greatest asset to White Sox is durability. Not to mention a proven track record of success in the minor leagues. Just look at yesterday's game -- Haeger could have relieved Contreras in the second and completed the game. Even if the score remained the same, and he gave up just as many runs as the bullpen, the point is he would have saved the remaining arms.

 

Looking ahead to Wednesday, Masset won't pitch. I wouldn't count on Sisco or Aardsma beyond one inning. If the worst were to occur and Garland leaves early, it's not going to be pretty. Situations such as these is why Haeger would have been a perfect addition to the roster. It doesn't even matter to me whether he'll walk the world as a reliever. He offers what no one else does.

Edited April 3, 2007 by Flash Tizzle

[DBAHO]

I'm not completely writing off Masset. It's quite possible his velocity returns, although -- as I said earlier -- I'm not counting on it.

 

Difference between him and others who have yet to regain velocity is those starters you've mentioned have track records suggesting they'll return to form. What does Masset have? He's only been a reliever for a short period, and his velocity as a starter was high 80's/low 90's. And even if his fastball does improve, are we going to see 95-97 for three inning appearances such as yesterdays?

 

Really, Williams is the one putting himself in this position. I didn't make a comment about Masset possessing "stuff" slightly below Jenks. I didn't suggest both trades were made with 2007 and beyond in mind, only to have Garcia's return produce nothing and McCarthy's produce two pitchers who may not be ready.

Maybe Masset's going through a bit of a dead arm period I don't know. But it's still way too early to judge.

 

Despite what KW said, these trades were made for the good of the long - term IMHO. But is it going to cost us THAT much in the short - term either. Brandon could struggle to put up an ERA below 5 pitching in Texas this season. Danks could very well match him ERA wise. And Freddy, well he's a wait and see with his arm they way it is at the moment.

 

I don't see Massett as a long inning guy, which is why it's beneficial to find a bullpen guy like Haeger who can be. We've almost got too many 6th/7th inning pitchers right now, which is both a good and a bad thing.

[southsideirish71]

Watching the replay of the game. Watching some stupid f***ing pitches by Contreras. 0-2 on Barfield, and he throws a meatball down the outter half, which Barfield drives into the right center gap. How that pitch was near the plate on 0-2 is beyond me.

 

And Contreras is doing that stupid side arm crap he did last year when his back was bothering him. He needs to stay 3/4s and up to keep ontop of the ball. When he is throwing sidearm, the ball sails and he pitches like this.

 

On Logan making the team, Cowley was on Sunday morning with the Score, and he said that everything was looking great for Logan but he started walking lefties, and multiple people. And that plus his breakdown last year, had the sox brass worried if Logan was going to fall apart mentally this year.

Edited April 3, 2007 by southsideirish71

[whitesoxfan101]

I thought Masset looked a bit nervous, but his stuff wasn't bad. The guy I didn't like what I saw from out of the pen was Double A, he worked a magic act to not get blown up.